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The "old timers" believed hammerless guns to be unsafe. Nobody would walk around carrying a gun or rifle with the hammers back, but that's exactly what is going on with the new hammerless weapons.

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Bloody old timers !

However it seems the wheel has turned and many are coming back to this view, with break open guns and rifles having decocking mechanisms. When they are well made and work well, a great idea.

Fantastic rifle Curl. Well done. Lovely and a great rifle. What are your first plans for it, what hunt?



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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (15/09/15 01:23 AM)

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Those guns with no hammers are just a passing fad, you know......

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How true! But Mike, do you remember about 15 years ago when Purdey tried to make a batch of hammer shotguns? They really didn’t look like a vintage Purdey at all. Kind of clunky. I’m afraid the skill is lost to the passage of time.

Let me point out one discrepancy: In their “Weapon History” above, they state the weight of the gun as 9 lbs. 14 oz. This is a mis-read of the ledger entry. You can see from my scan of the ledger entry that the weight was stated as 9 lbs. 1-1/4 oz. That is the true weight. Just a hair over 9 lbs. When I saw the weight stated in the Weapon History I was startled. I knew the rifle is not that heavy. Putting it on scales and a careful read of the ledger entry revealed the mistake.

I’m curious to know whether anybody has encountered another Holland & Holland double rifle similar to this one. I’m not asking about H&H hammer rifles from the black powder era. I’m asking about any nitro rifles built on this toplever back action hammer pattern. I don’t recall seeing another just like this one.

I just love this rifle! It really shoots well. Maybe a white tail deer in November!

Curl

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RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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Capt. I have a dear friend who has kind of half of what you have there.

It's a lovely Holland single of a similar vintage, back action hammer .303. He had me make a new safety bolt for the lock, which was missing when the rifle was purchased.

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Curl,

Yet another beautiful .303, congratulations. Curious, does H&H refer to such actions as "long bars"?

If not, I'd like to know what H&H's terminology for the long action is?

Best regards,

Mark

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Mark,

The only answer I have is that which is stated in the ledger entry above. You can see the entry is ".303 DB hammer rifle." There is no reference to the style of lock.

Maybe somebody else has more information, though nobody from 1900-1901 is here to tell us.





Mike,

What do you suppose happened to the other half of your client's rifle? He should have been concerned to have you make more than just the safety bolt!

Curl

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RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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. . . I'm interested in your load, have you chronographed it? jorge

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I had a range session with this rifle yesterday. My old supply of IMR4895 ran out and was replaced with 16 lbs. from another lot. So I did the right thing and did a fine-tune adjustment of my pet load, using the new powder. I tried loads of 37.5 grains, 38.0 grains, and 38.5 grains.

With this new lot of powder I found that my best load is now 38.0 grains with a Fed 210 primer and the Woodleigh 215. My OAL is 3.063", which seats the base of this bullet right at the bottom of the neck.

It's a wonderful load, and my rifle loves it. My average velocity of 8 rounds yesterday clocked 2175 fps.

Here's a look at my target, with the chronograph printout:





Only seven shots are on the target. I am embarrassed to admit that as noted, my first shot out of the right barrel barely grazed one of the screens of my chronograph, causing it to fly wide of the target. It's velocity did register, though. I re-adjusted the chronograph screens!

My group measures approximately 1-5/8", and the two barrel groups indicate the barrels are shooting parallel. It's hard to see on this scan, but the three shots on the right are the right barrel group, and the four shots to the left are the left barrel group.

If you are wondering, the notation at the top of the chronograph tape, beside the load data, 3.270", has to do with my powder measure setting.

I also see, that as for these 8 shots (four from each barrel) the left barrel clocks slightly faster than the right. The right averages 2162, and the left 2189. This would have to be repeated many times to draw any conclusions.

Curl

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In May of this year I happened upon this most delightful double rifle and was fortunate to bring it into the fold.

It is a Holland & Holland, completed January 15, 1901 a week before Queen Victoria's death. Although the H&H flagship at that time was the Royal Hammerless Ejector, this rifle was ordered as a toplever, back-action hammer rifle. Let me remind you that there still was suspicion and doubt about the hammerless guns and rifles at the turn of the 20th century. The "old timers" believed hammerless guns to be unsafe. Nobody would walk around carrying a gun or rifle with the hammers back, but that's exactly what is going on with the new hammerless weapons.

So here we see a rifle built as what was then an obsolete design, and chambered for arguably the most modern British cartridge of the day.

This rifle is absolutely superb. It has seen little use and remains in excellent original condition. Its bores are virtually new. It resides in its original case.

Regulated for the original 215 grain .303 load, it still is wonderfully accurate with my present-day load of 38.5 grains of IMR4895, a Woodleigh 215 grain bullet, and a Federal 210 primer.

So here it is.

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November has gone..did you do a Whitetail with the double?

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I did bag a nice whitetail, but not with this rifle. I'm embarrassed to admit using a Winchester Model 70 this fall.

I will say that the previous five deer I killed in past years were all killed with double rifles and express sights.

My hunt this year involved a little too much opportunity to rough up a rifle.

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RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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I’m curious to know whether anybody has encountered another Holland & Holland double rifle similar to this one. I’m not asking about H&H hammer rifles from the black powder era. I’m asking about any nitro rifles built on this toplever back action hammer pattern. I don’t recall seeing another just like this one.

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I would guess it was from an era of transition between hammer firearms and "hammerless". And possibly a client wanted good old fashioned hammers on his rifle.

Read somewhere where a maker made a batch or hammer rifles for some time.

Now if many people today still want a shotgun or rifle with hammers, how much more prevalent would that have been in the early 1900's.

Bloody lovely rifle, case and excellent acquisition.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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