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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifle Photos & Archive

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Nordmann
.300 member


Reged: 05/07/13
Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233067 - 28/07/13 09:38 PM

If it is stocked with an internal bar/bolt up through the wrist like many European rifles (and shotguns) for example, and it probably is, then thats a different situation, but if its stocked like an English double side lock with just wood and extended top tang and lower tang then thats a different situation especially on a double rifle where not all the energy/ recoil is forced straight back and where there are some sideways stress as well. (barrels are positioned either side of center)

Those burly walnut stocks are decorative but they are not as strong as straight grained walnut. I have even seen a couple of small bore shotguns with similar stocks just crack off (admittedly they don't have an extended top tang) and I even had a gun broken in shipping too, cracked right through the wrist packed in an oak and leather case.

Whatever the situation, I for one am not fond of that light burly wood, I prefer to see straight grain through the wrist with some burl in the stock toward the back and bottom and wood with a deeper darker color.

Each to their own!

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: Colorado
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Nordmann]
      #233083 - 29/07/13 01:24 AM

That is a beautiful gun for sure but the strength of the stock is a real concern too.
Just think, if it had Holland & Holland engraved on it, it would be a $160K gun!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Nordmann
.300 member


Reged: 05/07/13
Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Huvius]
      #233085 - 29/07/13 03:25 AM

Huvlus... if it was a Holland & Holland Royal deluxe with 2 barrel set it would be a $240K gun!

However needs a bit of extra finish to get there...more contemporary style stock with a better wood grain and a Silvers recoil pad, a proper oak and leather case, all the screws lined up, fitted sling swivels and a better foresight it would certainly help.

Still it's great value for money and not everyone can afford a H&H.

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James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1635
Loc: Finland
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Nordmann]
      #233087 - 29/07/13 03:37 AM

Quote:

if it was a Holland & Holland Royal deluxe with 2 barrel set......fitted sling swivels



Sling swivels ? In british double ? I donīt think so.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Igorrock]
      #233088 - 29/07/13 03:49 AM

Igor

What are you talking about ?


I'm surprised this gun doesn't have them.
PITA to carry if in an awkward situation.



Edited by 500Nitro (29/07/13 03:51 AM)


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
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Loc: Finland
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233090 - 29/07/13 05:31 AM

Slings and swivels may be in use among todays hunters but if you look older pictures you noticed that doubles mostly carried without sling, mostly grip round the barrel and butt end headed backwards. Like shotguns in UK.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Igorrock]
      #233091 - 29/07/13 05:37 AM



Igor

are you talking slings or sling swivels ?


Slings - don't know many who use slings on guns,
they might carry them in a pack which is always
a good thing to do.


Sling Swivels
Fitted to most English doubles.

And I just did a quick search on Drakes web site
and also gunsinternational, every Holland gun has
sling swivels attached, from BP Doubles onwards.


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Igorrock
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Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233093 - 29/07/13 06:03 AM

OK, so Iīm confused in this case. But for me is quite odd idea to attach those swivels for sling if nobody do not carry double with it. Maybe those are placed just for the style...

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Igorrock]
      #233094 - 29/07/13 06:25 AM


Igor

Just from my perspective / what I have seen personally, on youtube, in DVD's.

I am not saying this is definitive but Europeans seem to
have slings on their rifles. Maybe it is because of how they hunt, be it going from stand to stand on a driven hunt
or carrying gear to a high stand or climbing hills.

I just did a quick google and youtube on European Hunters and most had slings on rifles. One even had a sling on a shotgun !!!

I don't hunt with a sling on my gun but I always carry one
in case I or someone has to carry another person out of the bush due to injury. It is hard to do without slinging a rifle.

Anyway, that is my take on it.


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233095 - 29/07/13 06:27 AM



Two more things.

You can always take them off as I have done
in the past on a couple of occasions !!!


Also, the style of sling swivel has changed over the years.
In the past it was an "eye" and sling had to have hooks on
it. I noticed that most doubles seemed to have modern day swivels on them.


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Nordmann
.300 member


Reged: 05/07/13
Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233096 - 29/07/13 07:24 AM

Igorrock

I never owned an English double rifle yet, pre-war or modern, that did not have sling swivels, and I have owned and still do own many of them!

And... if I ever bought one that did not have sling swivels fitted, I would have them fitted immediately. They are a must!

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: Colorado
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Nordmann]
      #233099 - 29/07/13 10:54 AM

I agree on the sling.
I use one on my doubles mostly because elk hunting
here in Colorado is mostly quite an up and down proposition and,
being a less than perfect physical specimen, I often need
both hands to negotiate the steep uphill climbs.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
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Loc: Finland
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Huvius]
      #233102 - 29/07/13 01:56 PM

I understand sling with a double (mostly o&u) when hunting in europe. In Finland and Germany they use to have sling even with shotgun (I do not) but sling with big caliber s&s shotgun in Africa, that I do not understand.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Igorrock]
      #233103 - 29/07/13 02:06 PM


I don't understand the difference.

Europe, Africa, Australia, USA, all the same
if someone once to sling it.

I prefer throwing it on my shoulder, however
have been times when I would have liked or
should have slung it.


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
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Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233105 - 29/07/13 02:44 PM

Quote:

Europe, Africa, Australia, USA, all the same if someone once to sling it.



I think classic safari style hunting in Africa with PH and trackers differs from those others.

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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 934
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Igorrock]
      #233108 - 29/07/13 05:58 PM

Classic style hunting when you had a gunbearer to carry your double all day may have been different. Carry your own all day and its all the same.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Claydog]
      #233109 - 29/07/13 06:01 PM


Claydog

Bingo !

I think you hit it on the head.


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Nordmann
.300 member


Reged: 05/07/13
Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233111 - 29/07/13 06:43 PM

This guy had the right setup.

http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/TR/TRBIGSTICK.htm

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: Colorado
Re: Doubles At Auction [Re: Nordmann]
      #234930 - 31/08/13 09:26 AM

A double in 30 Super flanged would sure be nice!

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/59/lid/1661

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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
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Re: Doubles At Auction [Re: Huvius]
      #234934 - 31/08/13 10:46 AM

I would bet it beats the price estimate.

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mckinney
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Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Re: Doubles At Auction: Outschar, Kal. .470 NE & .375 Flanget [Re: Nordmann]
      #235018 - 03/09/13 03:33 AM

I definitely agree on the wood. I much prefer straight grain, dark, with some modest streaking - about the kind of wood one sees on prewar Rigby bolt rifles. I have never been a fan of the burled or marblecake look, although I have a G&H bolt rifle in .338 and a few others that are marbled. If the wood is too "busy" it detracts from the rifle in my view, not to mention the strength issue.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Doubles At Auction [Re: Igorrock]
      #235037 - 03/09/13 02:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Europe, Africa, Australia, USA, all the same if someone once to sling it.



I think classic safari style hunting in Africa with PH and trackers differs from those others.




The reason some people say a DG rifle should not be fitted with sling studs is they say it should never be carried on a sling on one's back. My PH on one safari claimed, it should be in your hands when in DG country, and if not in DG country, his tracker is carrying the rifle. Not a DR, a plastic stocked .416 Rem Mag Rem 700. The luxury of a tracker/gun bearer.

But virtually all DR's have sling studs on them. All of mine do, from 1879 to probably arounf 1910, plus the new ones too.

I certainly use the slings. Some of these rifles are damned heavy when walking 20 kms.

The other reason for not having a sling on the rifle in Africa is claimed it is something that might get snagged on the thorn bushes and if hunting DG increase the risk.

But we all have thickets in Australia, Asia, North America, even Europe! I have pushed through some dense thickets while hunting boar in Italy (only with a camera that time). So thick I declined to climb back up the hill through them, but walked the long way home around the mountain.

Trackers in Africa often carry the rifle by the sling too.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 934
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: Doubles At Auction [Re: NitroX]
      #235039 - 03/09/13 03:06 PM

Seems to be somewhat forgotten these days how much a correctly adjusted sling can steady a shot when wrapped around the front arm. Also there is plenty of situations it is good to have two hands free when climbing around.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Doubles At Auction [Re: Claydog]
      #235042 - 03/09/13 03:10 PM

Quote:

Seems to be somewhat forgotten these days how much a correctly adjusted sling can steady a shot when wrapped around the front arm. Also there is plenty of situations it is good to have two hands free when climbing around.




In mountains, rough country and especially if needing to carry out game kilometres back to camp or the vehicle without having a dozen blackamatics to do it all for you!

Your first point is also so true for non-multi barrelled firearms.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doubles At Auction [Re: NitroX]
      #235046 - 03/09/13 03:29 PM


John

You forgot to add "if you need to carry out another person"
as well.

A sling can also be used as a tourniquet or to make a splint
if needed.


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