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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
how do you prepare
      #93631 - 06/01/08 02:31 PM

Do you practice with your double rifle?
Do you have a routine you go through?
If you have a routine is it something
that includes moving targets,reloading
under the clock? What other types of
pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93652 - 06/01/08 11:36 PM

I like to shoot balloons at 50 yards with my .500NE. I inflate them to 8" or so, staple the tails to a horizontal pole a few feet off the ground, and shoot offhand, consciously trying to make a quick followup shot. It's fun and effective practice.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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JPK
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: CptCurl]
      #93663 - 07/01/08 12:45 AM

I might have to try the baloons, but with a twist. I think I might try stapling a five or six foot length of string to a short vertical 1x2 and tying the baloon to the string so that it can move more in a breeze. Anyone tried that?

JPK


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: JPK]
      #93671 - 07/01/08 01:40 AM

They can flutter right much the way I do it. Your suggestion might add some sport for sure. No harm in trying.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93674 - 07/01/08 01:52 AM

I practice--however I practice first and foremost for accuracy of the first shot--before I go on a hunt of any kind I practice, practice and practice shooting off hand, prone or whatever..I shoot the guns I am taking with but also shoot others just for the fact of shooting alot..

I shoot clay pigeons on a dirt bank at 100 yards---once you can hit them consistently off hand you are doing well I feel..I also shoot small plastic containers filled with water at 100 yards for the effect---

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93696 - 07/01/08 06:12 AM

Quote:

Do you practice with your double rifle?
Do you have a routine you go through?
If you have a routine is it something
that includes moving targets,reloading
under the clock? What other types of
pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?





Yes, practice till your shoulder can't take anymore. The best is, assuming you have some land to fiddle with. Set up a course, open targets placed 25 to 50 meters apart (balloons on sticks, or steel rotating targets), both in front and aside bush. Always practice with the gun you intend to hunt with, this notion of practicing with a 22 is absurd. Wear your hunting clothing, and the shoes you intend to use as well. Where your ammo belt, etc etc..

As you walk toward and aside the targets, use approx 25 and 50 meters distance points, point and shoot one shot with a quick follow up, reload as fast as you can, repeat it then move on. 4 shots per stand. Make a couple of rounds of this routine per practice round.

If you do this a couple of times a week, shooting your double rifle will be second nature. At that point your ready for dangerous game hunting with a PH. It's all about confidence with your rifle, knowing your weapon inside and out, and point of impact in various scenarios.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93697 - 07/01/08 06:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Do you practice with your double rifle?
Do you have a routine you go through?
If you have a routine is it something
that includes moving targets,reloading
under the clock? What other types of
pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?





Always practice with the gun you intend to hunt with, this notion of practicing with a 22 is absurd. .




Not sure if you didn't understand what my point was --but here it is again-I am saying by all means shoot the weapon you plan to hunt with--HOWEVER that does not have to be the only weapon you shoot and practice with..the more shooting you do, the better shot you will be, period..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: how do you prepare [Re: Ripp]
      #93699 - 07/01/08 06:34 AM

Quote:



Not sure if you didn't understand what my point was --but here it is again-I am saying by all means shoot the weapon you plan to hunt with--HOWEVER that does not have to be the only weapon you shoot and practice with..the more shooting you do, the better shot you will be, period..

Ripp





Ripp,

No offense I see you changed your post an erased the 22 part, I understood your point clearly. However, shooting your little 22 is not going to do anything for getting ready for Africa with a double rifle; and or shooting double rifles period. The fellow that posted this thread is looking for advise on handling double rifles. To advise practicing with a unweighted, non-recoil bolt gun is just bad advise in my opinion, per his inquiry.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93704 - 07/01/08 07:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Not sure if you didn't understand what my point was --but here it is again-I am saying by all means shoot the weapon you plan to hunt with--HOWEVER that does not have to be the only weapon you shoot and practice with..the more shooting you do, the better shot you will be, period..

Ripp





Ripp,

No offense I see you changed your post an erased the 22 part, I understood your point clearly. However, shooting your little 22 is not going to do anything for getting ready for Africa with a double rifle; and or shooting double rifles period. The fellow that posted this thread is looking for advise on handling double rifles. To advise practicing with a unweighted, non-recoil bolt gun is just bad advise in my opinion, per his inquiry.






Sinner,


Actually I did not change my post--the 22 part you mention is in another post..
No offense taken..I merely subscribe to the fact as mentioned in my first post in the subject.. that ones needs to shoot and shoot a lot..however I do believe the more you shoot off hand or any other manner one chooses, the better one will be, no matter what type of weapon one shoots..you train the muscles needed to hold steady...as you stated, this is my opinion as well..

Take care

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93707 - 07/01/08 08:34 AM


Do you practice with your double rifle? YES, very much so

Do you have a routine you go through? YES, very much so
such as making sure your clothing and ammo holder are in the same place as when you will be hunting. You will son find out on the range any possible hiccups.

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to
preform? Shoot and reloading, starting off slowly to get the sequence going, then practice it faster but while still maintaining accuracy (ie so still shoot at multiple targets).


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: how do you prepare [Re: 500Nitro]
      #93725 - 07/01/08 11:52 AM

Sinner,

I am the one who posted about shooting a 22 for practice. It does work. Just to make make this obvious, I'll ask this question: When was the last time you shot 120 rounds of 470, or equivelent in recoil, out of a rifle in ONE range session? (100 rounds of 22lr, 20 of 470)

The answer will be never, or suspect. Trigger control is all, and it can be learned on any rifle. But of course needs to finished up on the rifle you intend to hunt with, and that doesn't take much.

If you want to practice the function of your double rifle then go shoot skeet or sporting clays with your SxS shotgun. Speed of reloading too. Mount and point, similar.

A flat of 12ga shotgun ammo (250 rounds here) doesn't cost too much, is fun to shoot and doesn't beat you like even 50 rounds of 470 would. Importantly, it teached fluidity, which much rifle shooting does not. Fluidity is the key to close range shooting imo, especially when the ele swings to look at you as you push your approach, or the buff for that matter. If it doesn't notice you as you close to,say fifteeen or ten yards - and they all will if you keep approaching to close as close as possible, then your long practice with a 22 and then with your 470 or so will make a set shot a breeze.

JPK


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: how do you prepare [Re: JPK]
      #93726 - 07/01/08 12:19 PM

Quote:

I am the one who posted about shooting a 22 for practice.

JPK




You mean your also the one. In any event..

Regardless of how much you shoot your 22, it will not properly prepare you for a double rifle, period.




When was the last time you shot 120 rounds of 470, or equivelent in recoil, out of a rifle in ONE range session? (100 rounds of 22lr, 20 of 470)




Neeegro please... I have shot enough large bore ammo to fill a house. Whats the old adage, when you assume you...





The answer will be never, or suspect. Trigger control is all, and it can be learned on any rifle. But of course needs to finished up on the rifle you intend to hunt with, and that doesn't take much.




Trigger control? Well if thats your practice method thats just super.





If you want to practice the function of your double rifle then go shoot skeet or sporting clays with your SxS shotgun. Speed of reloading too. Mount and point, similar.




God my side is aching from laughing so hard.





A flat of 12ga shotgun ammo (250 rounds here) doesn't cost too much, is fun to shoot and doesn't beat you like even 50 rounds of 470 would. Importantly, it teached fluidity, which much rifle shooting does not. Fluidity is the key to close range shooting imo, especially when the ele swings to look at you as you push your approach, or the buff for that matter. If it doesn't notice you as you close to,say fifteeen or ten yards - and they all will if you keep approaching to close as close as possible, then your long practice with a 22 and then with your 470 or so will make a set shot a breeze.




Well by this time you should be wonderfully accustomed to your shotgun, and not your double rifle.


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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93731 - 07/01/08 01:09 PM

This past year I participated in the Vintagers SXS rifle match in both Stopping and Stalking. The first being a 500/450 and the later being a 35 Winchester. I shot 20 in each over two days. I've shot a lot of skeet and it simply is not the same as speed shooting (6 in one minute) a stopper.

If you have time. Go and buy some two liter water bottles, set them up at 25 FEET and start snap-shootng. It's really fun and you learn instinctive shooting.

B.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93732 - 07/01/08 01:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am the one who posted about shooting a 22 for practice.

JPK




You mean your also the one. In any event..





*ACTUALLY NO, JPK WAS CORRECT THE FIRST TIME..I NEVER MENTIONED A 22 ON THIS POST--AGAIN, IF YOU WERE NOT SO EAGER TO BE SARCASTIC YOU WOULD HAVE READ THAT I MENTIONED THE 22 IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT POST..

*****


Regardless of how much you shoot your 22, it will not properly prepare you for a double rifle, period.

***






**THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF IT--YOU DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AND OTHERS CAN DO WHAT WORKS FOR THEM..

RIPP

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (07/01/08 03:06 PM)


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: how do you prepare [Re: Ripp]
      #93742 - 07/01/08 02:41 PM

Sinner,

I am the only one, recently, to have posted about shooting a 22 to learn to shoot off hand better. Read Ripp's post, or review the post here and on other threads and confirm this yourself.

No one learned to shoot shooting a 470. Not you, not me - no one. To pretend otherwise is just ignorant and absurd.

I don't doubt that you have shot enough big bore rounds to "fill a house", so have I, so what. Reread my post, I asked when was the last time you shot 120 rounds of 470, or any equivelent cartridge so far as recoil is concerned, IN ONE SESSION. Don't BS me and other with the "fill a house" in a lifetime red herring. That isn't the issue and not the point.

It takes time to shoot enough big bore ammo to "fill a house". I takes no time to do the same with the 22, and that is the point.

And again, reread my post, I never said that shooting a 22 will prepare you for shooting your double rifle, I said that shooting the rifle you will hunt with will prepare you for your hunt. And I said shooting a 22lr will teach you to shoot well off hand, with a double or any other rifle.

If you don't know your trigger, you will never shoot well, even with a shotgun. Knowing when your rifle or shotgun will fire in critical to hitting any target. Most of us have struggled with a rifle or shotgun with heavy or gritty triggers, this is just an indication of how critical triggers, and knowing them, are. No man can hold a bull off hand with 100% consistency, all will woble, even if just a bit as our heart beats. Knowing when the rifle will fire is the only asurance that the round goes where intended if any distance is involved.

So far as learning to shooting a double rifle with a shotgun, I never said that either, I inferred that loading and handling are so similar that familiarity and proficiency with one leads the same with the other. If you shoot an ejector SxS rifle and an ejector SxS shotgun you will know both, likewise an extractor. If you load from a belt with a shotgun and do the same with a double rifle it will be second nature. "No" big bore rifle is shot the volume a shotgun is. I'll stand by my comments. Same with knowing your two triggers, which most here do not grow up with.

So far as dynamic shooting, you will never learn that at a rifle range. Opportunities to shoot moving targets with a rifle are thin, not so with a shotgun. I am a firm believer and practicioner of shooting a double rifle like a shotgun when the game is close and moving. Of course, this only works if your rifle fits you as it should, wiht the sights aligned when you mount the rifle. Mounting is also the same as the shotgun, and so the benefit of easy, inexpensive, fun, high volume practice with a SxS shotgun.

JPK


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: JPK]
      #93746 - 07/01/08 03:10 PM

C'mon guys, be buddies!

JPK, Rhett Butler, RIPP and Sinner, you guys are in one area in agreement; SHOOT!

Have fun, too!

I don't have a double, but the principles apply to all guns; Shoot everything you can, and shoot under all conditions and as RIPP says, if it works for you...Do It! {How a guy does it enough with a rifle that costs $20.00 a shot to shoot is beyond me, but I only have a job, not the income of a Kingdom! }

Regardless, getting closer to your hunt, shoot the gun you'll take, and shoot it a lot! Practice reloading from the cartridge carrier you intend to use on the hunt.

Only thing NEW I'll add here is try doing wind sprints before your shot strings. It sort of helps to duplicate the adrenaline rush/stress most feellows experience in the presence of game. We sprint, ski, snowshoe, whatever. Do pushups if you are at a public range {my range is on my own place}. All that stuff works.

.22's are GREAT for all purposes as long as you don't develop bad shouldering habits that can haunt you when firing a rifle that kicks even a bit.

Here we are having fun, practicing, not doubles, but simply putting into practice the same principles that apply to shooting ANY gun, this during some bad weather a while back...

Targets are chunks of firewood. "Rhett's" waterbottles are fun for effect, too, as long as they don't freeze before ya' get'em...







--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: 9.3x57]
      #93748 - 07/01/08 03:20 PM

Quote:

C'mon guys, be buddies!

JPK, Rhett Butler, RIPP and Sinner, you guys are in one area in agreement; SHOOT!

Have fun, too!
**
I AM EVERYONES BUDDY...

**

I don't have a double, but the principles apply to all guns; Shoot everything you can, and shoot under all conditions and as RIPP says, if it works for you...Do It! {How a guy does it enough with a rifle that costs $20.00 a shot to shoot is beyond me, but I only have a job, not the income of a Kingdom! }

**

THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF RELOADING--DO IT ALOT AND OFTEN--CUTS THE COST DOWN SUBSTANTIALLY..AND LIKE YOU I DON'T HAVE THE INCOME OF ANY KINGDOM--MAYBE JUST A SMALL VILLAGE.



.22's are GREAT for all purposes as long as you don't develop bad shouldering habits that can haunt you when firing a rifle that kicks even a bit.

Here we are having fun, practicing, not doubles, but simply putting into practice the same principles that apply to shooting ANY gun, this during some bad weather a while back...

Targets are chunks of firewood. "Rhett's" waterbottles are fun for effect, too, as long as they don't freeze before ya' get'em...

***

AGREE--WITH THE WATER BOTTLES--I HAVE BEEN FILING UP PLASTIC JUGS OR NUT CONTAINERS WITH WATER--FANTASTIC EXPLOSIONS.. AND YES--SHOOTING ALOT NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE SHOOTING WILL HELP.. ALSO AGREE THAT SHOOTING THE WEAPON YOU ARE GOING HUNTING WITH THE MOST MAKES PERFECT SENSE...HOWEVER OTHERS CAN FILL IN --HELPS IN KEEPING THINGS EXCITING...

RIPP

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: how do you prepare [Re: JPK]
      #93751 - 07/01/08 03:24 PM

Bonanza,

Thanks I'll give it a try, sounds like good fun.


---------------


Ripp, JPK,

I made my relevant points previously, no hard feelings.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93752 - 07/01/08 03:28 PM

Quote:

Do you practice with your double rifle?
Do you have a routine you go through?
If you have a routine is it something
that includes moving targets,reloading
under the clock? What other types of
pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?




I like to shoot other things with hair or fur.

Cow water buffalo was a good practice session once. Wild pigs. What I am really looking for is a local farmer with a kangaroo culling permit and hopefully a few hundred tags per year. By law the carcases have to be left on the property and not harvested, ie the farmer and his dogs can eat them but you are in trouble for taking them away. A hopping kangaroo at full speed would make great practice target. Deer too are good practice. I haven't used a double on feral goats yet but they would be particularly good practice.

Paddy melons in the field also make excellent targets. Set them up on fence posts. Once I used a series of limestone rocks (head size) and shot them in order, furtherest first and simulating a charge, until they got real close. When you hit them they explode if a fantastic display with bits of rock falling many metres away. The last one I hit made a little mushroom cloud and bits were even falling behind me. Very exciting (I made up the mushroom cloud ). Shoot as fast as you can, reload etc, until the last is hit. Try not to hit the farmers posts though especially when it is your own fenceline.

Something else good to use is 2 litre soft drink plastic bottles filled with water and maybe a little bit of dye.

I like these sorts of size targets as I'm not looking for MOA accuracy when practicing. I want to hit a reasonably sized target quickly and hit it every time. A paddy melon is a good ele brain sized target too but far easier to hit.

If shooting at targets, if checking/working up loads, then use proper standing rests etc, otherwise forget the circular pistol targets. Put a game animal target up, and snap shoot them as quick as you can and get the sights aligned. Do it from different ranges. Right I am talking about shooting in my own paddock, not an overly officious formal target range.

I want to set up a couple of running targets, one a charging buff and another crossing one.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (07/01/08 03:52 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: Ripp]
      #93753 - 07/01/08 03:42 PM

Quote:

Actually I did not change my post--the 22 part you mention is in another post..
No offense taken..I merely subscribe to the fact as mentioned in my first post in the subject.. that ones needs to shoot and shoot a lot..however I do believe the more you shoot off hand or any other manner one chooses, the better one will be, no matter what type of weapon one shoots..you train the muscles needed to hold steady...




Not relevant to this topic, but a .22 bolt action is very good practice for hunters to use to get rid of the stupid practice of working the bolt from the hip. The bolt should be worked from the shoulder. Shooting 50 rounds off at a session rapid fire from the shoulder with a .22 and you quickly learn to reload from the shoulder.

***

I understand both arguments on this thread. Only just read them so am adding to my posts here!

The two arguments are: learn how to shoot in general; and learn to shoot your particular rifle.

Before you can learn to shoot a double rifle well, you need to be able to shoot well. A .22 or other rifle is great practice and no one learns with a .500 NE.

The other argument is you need to master and become familiar with the recoil of the actual rifle you will shoot, its triggers, its feel and balance, its sighting arrangements etc.

Both arguments are quite true.


***

Relevant to this topic, is not to develop a flinch. If you believe as some people write that shooting 20 rounds from your .470 at targets is easy, and give it a try, stop when it hurts. Then go to a different lower recoiling rifle. Shoot that a bit. Then shoot a few more shots from your DR .470 or whatever it is. Personally I find my tolerance level is about 8 to 12 shots from a .450 on targets in a session. Maybe more if I have a break and do another session.

On live animals I probably have shot six or eight rounds very quickly, and while I felt no pain, your shoulder has a "ringing/numb" feeling to it.

Some people recommend shooting lots of rounds from heavy recoiling rifles, but don't develop a flinch.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (07/01/08 03:49 PM)


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93790 - 08/01/08 01:00 AM


---------------


Ripp, JPK,

I made my relevant points previously, no hard feelings.





Sinner,

None taken or ever intended.

Have no problem with criticism-even if its wrong..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: how do you prepare [Re: Ripp]
      #93796 - 08/01/08 03:04 AM

Sinner,

You made no points, and didn't really try. Just drive by sarcasm.

Mostly you ducked my question:

"When was the last time you shot 120 rounds of big bore in ONE session?"

And answered with a red herring about having shot "a house full" of big bore in your lifetime. Your point here was...?

So when was the last time you shot 120 round of big bore in one session?

You ducked my comment to the effect of, "No one, not you or me or anyone learned to shoot shooting a 470, or similar recoiling rifle. To pretend otherwise is absurd," as well.

Or do you continue to imply that you cut your teeth with the big bore doubles?

Yea, sure, just as the sun rises in the west.

Or lets take the shotgun annalogy and dig deeper, what multiple of shotgun ammo have you expended shooting a SxS vs. the count of big bore SxS double rifle ammo you have expended?

JPK


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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: JPK]
      #93801 - 08/01/08 04:29 AM

The shooting ranges in the area where I live are very formal and wouldn't allow any ballons, buckets, jugs,etc. I rely on handling the gun and dry firing. I dry fire the gun approx. 10 times to every 1 round expended at the range. I also practice different shooting positions at home and try them later at the range where I can set targets up at various distances. I limit big bore shooting to 10 or 20 rounds per range visit unless I am working up loads on various guns.
I agree that all shooting is good practice but being proficient on the shotgun range doesn't mean you can shoot a 40 on the silouette range or visa versa.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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JPK
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: gatsby]
      #93804 - 08/01/08 05:23 AM

"I agree that all shooting is good practice but being proficient on the shotgun range doesn't mean you can shoot a 40 on the silouette range or visa versa."

I couldn't agree more, but you won't forget your second trigger if the shotgun you shoot has one too. And you won't be hunting for the top lever either, or trying to find that sliding tang safety, and if you load from a belt on the range it won't be unfamiliar in the field after buff or elephant. I'd bet on the fellow who does quite a bit of shotgunning, as well as his share of rifle practice, when it comes to putting a second shot into anything running.

JPK


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: how do you prepare [Re: JPK]
      #93805 - 08/01/08 05:31 AM

Quote:

Do you practice with your double rifle?
Do you have a routine you go through?
If you have a routine is it something
that includes moving targets,reloading
under the clock? What other types of
pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?




I answered this thread on topic, from an informed position.

Quote:

Sinner,

You made no points, and didn't really try. Just drive by sarcasm.




I made my point relative to the handling of a double rifle, in preparation of a hunt. Sarcasm was based on your degree of knowledge and "know it all" attitude.


Quote:

Mostly you ducked my question:

"When was the last time you shot 120 rounds of big bore in ONE session?"




This statement is absurd, you don’t need to shoot a double rifle 120 rounds in one session to prepare. Your shoulder will have had it by 20 rounds. Your comparing shotgun shooting, to large bore double rifle shooting, again.


Quote:

answered with a red herring about having shot "a house full" of big bore in your lifetime. Your point here was...?




My point was; that I have collected, hunted with, and practiced with double rifles my whole life, and certainly know the ins and outs of getting ready for a hunt with a DR.

Quote:

when was the last time you shot 120 round of big bore in one session?




Do you have a stutter? You asked this two sentences ago, and my answer hasn't changed.

Quote:

You ducked my comment to the effect of, "No one, not you or me or anyone learned to shoot shooting a 470, or similar recoiling rifle. To pretend otherwise is absurd," as well.




This was never my point nor was it asked by k80, you eluded and assumed this, not I.

Quote:

Or do you continue to imply that you cut your teeth with the big bore doubles? Yea, sure, just as the sun rises in the west.




You let me know when dealers start calling you and asking your opinion on double rifles, and hunting.

Quote:

Ok lets take the shotgun annalogy and dig deeper, what multiple of shotgun ammo have you expended shooting a SxS vs. the count of big bore SxS double rifle ammo you have expended?

JPK




I enjoy trap, skeet, and sporting clays as much as the next guy. Though it’s not what I divulge myself in over my DR to get ready for a dangerous game hunt. I would say 60/40 double rifle shooting over shotgunning for me, unless I'm getting ready for a dangerous hunt, then my focus is my double rifle. However, again the topic is how do you prepare with a double rifle, not how do you prepare with a shotgun.

BTW I have yet to see any of your double rifles posted on this site, I would think such an expert as you in the field would want to at least share a few.

Your certainly welcome to your views, however, they are not mine thankfully.


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Yogi000
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93811 - 08/01/08 06:57 AM

I have my neighbors kids run around the back yard, nekked except their diapers, and I try to hit them with my double barrel dart gun with rubber tips... 5 points for a perfect diaper shot in the arse.

errr, only jokin' fellas, I though a little levity might, and I repeat might, help...

actually shooting alot and preferably at a moving target is a good idea. I am working on making a target that charges toward you. Basically two clotheline pulleys, electric motor powered, and a frame that holds a paper target of a lion, hog, jag, etc... Starts at 35 feet away, and comes at you fast! ...But for know I put jugs up at different distances and in different terrain and snap shoot at them.


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500grains
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93814 - 08/01/08 07:24 AM

While it is necessary and appropriate to practice enough with your double so that you are competent and skillful in its use, overdoing it can cause a flinch and screw up your hunt. Thus I would recommend that most practice rounds be fired in a mild-recoiling caliber, with only 20 or so full power DGR rounds fired per week in advance of a hunt.

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Pilgrim
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: 500grains]
      #93821 - 08/01/08 09:07 AM

Thank you 500Grains! I don't know how anyone can shoot their DG rifles enough to claim proficiency given both the cost of the ammunition and the recoil of the rifles. Even if you reload, the cost of the shots has to be greater than $2/round or thereabouts. My 9.3 using Noslers is roughly $1.50 per shot. That's one of the reasons why I'm going to cast bullets in that rifle. If somebody on this board ONLY shoots big bores and shoots those a lot (20 rounds per week or so), I tip my hat to them. They are tougher than this writer by a fair amount. If you are a PH and carry and shoot your DG rifle year round, I'll concede proficiency due to the familiarity alone. However, consistent with 500Grains comment, that is exactly why I have a Chapuis UGEX in 7x65R on order to complement my UGEX in 9.3X74R. Does the 9.3mm recoil objectionably? Not really, although 20 plus rounds in a single range session is certainly noticable. FWIW...Pilgrim

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EricD
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93832 - 08/01/08 10:27 AM

Here's a thread from a few years ago regarding practice on moving targets. Suitable for both doubles and bolt actions: "Charging Elephant Sled"

The "Charging Elephant", which was dragged by a car past the shooter:



More detailed info can be seen by clicking on the link.

Erik


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JPK
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: EricD]
      #93840 - 08/01/08 02:02 PM

Sinner,

Your post again avoids answering questions originally posted in my earlier posts, and really you made no points. Try rereading your own posts, this will then become clear, even to you.

After three dodges, you do not answer, but imply reluctantly, grudgingly, that one single reasonable answer, a foregone conclussion, that no you can't stand 120 rounds of big bore in a single session. That having been a given, then makes it obvious that your response to my suggestion of using a 22 to learn to shoot offhand was just the drive by, egotictical sarcasm that I noted.

You continue to dodge the question regarding whether you cut your teeth with a 470 or equivelent recoiling rifle. You continue with the red herring about having owned, collected and shot many double rifles over a lifetime. Well and good, but not relevant to learning to shoot off hand, not relevant to learning to do it relatively quickly. The answer to my question is again a given, highlighting the rude sarcasm your post represents.

You report that of the total rounds that you shoot, shotgun vs. big bore double rifle, you shoot 60% shotgun, 40% rifle. The conclussions to be drawn here are that you do not shoot much, or at least that you do not shoot much with a shotgun. It appears that your qualifications regarding your rude response to my suggestion that becoming familiar with any SxS ejector or extractor and any two trigger SxS as well as dynamic shooting are a bit thin, certainly too thin to warrant your sarcasm.

If you are unfamiliar with my double rifles, or at least one of them, and the uses I put them to, it is because your membership here post dates mine by about two years. There have been many threads, some recent, where photos of at least one of my rifles have appeared to show some particular feature as an example or to answer a question.

I have not owned the number of double rifles that you seem to have nor am I interested in serial rifle ownership or collecting either. My interest are predominantly utilitarian. Rifles are tools. The big bore double rifle the the most specialized, the ultimate tool for close range dangerous game, especially elephants, and this is why I own one. I believe that the back action sidelock ejector is the ultimate big bore double rifle as well, and this is why my double rifles are back action sidelock ejectors. I believe that newer made rifles are the better choice, overall, for the hunter as opposed to the collector, and so my back action sidelock ejector double rifles are not vintage collector rifles.

I am asked infrequently about double rifles regarding technical or historical matter, and I refer the questioner to the appropriate party or individual to find the answer to their question. I am asked frequently about hunting, and hunting with double rifles. Some inquiries come from fellows who have read my reports here or elsewhere, some fewer from fellows refered by my booking agency. I answer with facts as I know them or my opinion if the question is within my experience.

I am not an arm chair expert on double rifles, and not an arm chair expert on using a big bore double rifle for its ultimate purpose either. And that is the point, K80 asked a question about preparing for a hunt, and I answered with my opinion based on my experience. You did not, you offered nothing helpful, you offerd only rude sarcasm without any alternative suggestion.

JPK

Edited by JPK (08/01/08 02:12 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: JPK]
      #93845 - 08/01/08 03:29 PM

Gentlemen,

Please take personal arguments to private messages.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: NitroX]
      #93846 - 08/01/08 03:43 PM

Quote:

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?




No one has answered this part of the initial question.

I wonder, does anyone here also engage in any sort of physical preparation, strengthening muscles, physical fitness.

Many double rifles are quite heavy, particularly in comparison to a 'normal' rifle. People always exclaim when picking up my .450 as it is heavier than needs to be at around 13 lbs.

In the field with a proper sling, and I do use a sling, a webbing one with padding, which is very comfortable, I don't really notice it, until my shoulder actually starts to hurt. I tend to carry my rifles mainly on one houlder. And I learned from experience that ache in the field may last for days if shoulders are not switched enough.

So what do the USERS and HUNTERS with double rifles here do to prepare for the actual hunt? Maybe perfectly physically fit from one's daily life perhaps?!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: how do you prepare [Re: NitroX]
      #93847 - 08/01/08 03:49 PM



Well, I've been promising to get back to SA since the summer to see SA Hunt, I started conditioning my liver about October
Not strictly about double rifles but more hunt preperation.

See you soon mate !!


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Arctic
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Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Arctic Canada
Re: how do you prepare [Re: Bramble]
      #93851 - 08/01/08 07:07 PM

One of the preps I use, and have incorporated for agencies, is a 100 yard dash, pick up a 60 lb. truck tire, run around a small building, grab your rifle, and start the course. It pumps you up, provides a strenuous activity, and gets your heart and mind going, similar to a lot of hunting. Then you work your way down the course with EFFECTIVE shooting. As we all know, misses don't count, but result in fertilized ground!
Practice off a bench is fine for checking your rifle, but is not practice for hunting situations.

If one does not want to practice shooting, then practice running with your shorts full!
~Arctic~

--------------------
"A stranger is a friend we haven't met!"


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: NitroX]
      #93869 - 09/01/08 01:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?




No one has answered this part of the initial question.




Actually, I did answer just that. I don't own a double but that is what I have to offer this discussion, since the answer to that question doesn't hinge on the gun {no pun intended... }. See my above post:

Only thing NEW I'll add here is try doing wind sprints before your shot strings. It sort of helps to duplicate the adrenaline rush/stress most feellows experience in the presence of game. We sprint, ski, snowshoe, whatever. Do pushups if you are at a public range {my range is on my own place}. All that stuff works.

I read an interesting report some time ago that linked steadiness of police under "street" stress to competitive shooting, the point being made that similar physiological conditions exist {adrenaline, breathing, etc} when under the stress of timed competitive events and when faced with a "Bad Guy" in an confusing street situation. Cops who were competitive shooters performed better. How that was judged exactly I do not know.

Anyway, we have found that adding physical stress to shooting sessions acts similarly, i.e., the physical challenge duplicates the stress often facing us under field conditions when hunting.

Doing wind sprints, etc at the firing line is helpful even if your hunt is not going to be physically challenging, as it helps teach you to settle down, calm your nerves, control your breathing, deal with YOUR abilities, and most importantly, LEARN YOUR OWN LIMITATIONS. Think about it. Most shots in the field are blown because a hunter tries to accomplish something he is unsure about, hasn't tried before, or is totally unprepared for. Anything that can help you learn what your own limitations are {fitness or shooting}, and then allow you to verbalize them to your PH, will make you a better and more successful hunter. Don't ever look at another guys groups and assume that is what you MUST do. Shoot enough to find out what YOU can do, then work within your limitations.

These are lessons we have learned here. No, it is true, we do not have the amounts of game that some other places do. But that forces us to be all the more ready for the shots we are given. And to add injury to insult, what we do have is darn hard conditions and physical challenges that force us to get ready for it all year long {daily conditioning} OR adopt "Pasty Fat Ass" hunting methods {riding around on a 4-wheeler, etc} that bring no satisfaction to this hunter. For example, in a half hour, in the dark, I'm headed out for my normal morning, 1 1/2 hour snowshoe hike up the mountain, packing a gun, naturally. Some days I ski. Being quite honest, this is a very tough pull and not particularly pleasant, and those who have done this type of activity in steep and rough terrain in varying depths of snow and ice can back me up here. That's this time of year. We maintain our workouts all year long, varying with the seasons and they serve us well come hunting season. I have a host of physical ailments to contend with, but I do what I can. Fortunately, everything below the waist still works fine!!

Much African hunting is amazingly easy and amounts to in effect what we call "road hunting" until critters are identified, followed by either almost no stalk or a stalk of very short distance {up to a mile}. But that is not always the case, and some hunting is quite physically demanding. On an expensive hunt, it would behoove the hunter to find out just what he is going to face and then prepare for it. It may demand nothing more than "liver prep" or it may demand an intense cardiovascular program. Find out before the hunt, not during!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (09/01/08 01:15 AM)


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Yogi000
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: 9.3x57]
      #93881 - 09/01/08 03:32 AM

I think the wind sprints between shots is a great prep. I also hike steep terrain on my land and have targets set up in different locations.

Getting the heart thumping and then taking a shot is excellent preparation.


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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93902 - 09/01/08 12:48 PM

I just wish I could prepare for a DG hunt

I might have to resign myself to being a collector and shooter of double rifles given the craziness of Afrika. Of course there is always Grizzlies.

B.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: NitroX]
      #93912 - 09/01/08 03:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?




No one has answered this part of the initial question.

I wonder, does anyone here also engage in any sort of physical preparation, strengthening muscles, physical fitness.

Many double rifles are quite heavy, particularly in comparison to a 'normal' rifle. People always exclaim when picking up my .450 as it is heavier than needs to be at around 13 lbs.

In the field with a proper sling, and I do use a sling, a webbing one with padding, which is very comfortable, I don't really notice it, until my shoulder actually starts to hurt. I tend to carry my rifles mainly on one houlder. And I learned from experience that ache in the field may last for days if shoulders are not switched enough.

So what do the USERS and HUNTERS with double rifles here do to prepare for the actual hunt? Maybe perfectly physically fit from one's daily life perhaps?!





WOW--I have been gone for a couple days and see some of us are still not getting along..


Nitro,

With respect to your questions on physical preparation--I lift weights 4 to 5 days per week for about 1 1/2 hours per session--switching between body parts--upper body one day-chest and triceps-lower next-squats, leg presses, curls, calves..and back to upper doing back, shoulders and biceps-

Now primarily for strength--heavier weight and lower reps..when I get 8 weeks out-I switch my routine around to higher reps and lower weight to increase endurance..

Along with the lifting..I include cardio training..either ride a bike, cross trainer or run for 20 to 30 minutes 3 times per week... as I get closer to my hunt I might pick that up a bit..once spring hits here with warmer weather I start to hike the mountains by my house--I am only 10 minutes from a trail head.. this seems to have worked quite well for me in the past and again I adjust my training based on the type of hunt I am going on--if it is going to be more in mountainous areas, I will lift less and more cardio..been doing this type of varying routines for 30 plus years...

Thanks,

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Taylor416
.300 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 161
Loc: Central West, New South Wales....
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93949 - 10/01/08 12:22 AM




A branch of the BIG GAME RIFLE CLUB in S.A. would be good!!!!!!!

cheers Chris

--------------------
Love to hunt!


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xausa
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Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93952 - 10/01/08 02:32 AM

Quote:

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to preform?




I have waited for someone else to mention it, but since no one has, I will bring it up. As far as pressure is concerned, nothing, in my opinion, beats competitive shooting.

Consider the pressure generated by high power rifle competition with a bolt action rifle: the first stage consists of 20 rounds fired standing, unsupported, at a target 200 yards distant, with a 7" ten ring, for a possible score of 200, using a rifle which may weigh from 10 to 14 pounds and metallic sights, in a time limit of 20 minutes. If you shoot, as I do, a .308 Winchester, there is some recoil to deal with, enough to assure that you will be punished for an unbalanced position. To add to the fun, you may be shooting under wind conditions which make you feel thankful that you are able to hit the 6'X 6' target, or heat conditions which may have you virtually dehydrated by the end of the 20 shot string, or heat and light conditions which create a mirage which may distort the target to a blob. When I was younger, I could expect to shoot in the high 180's or low 190's, but now, at age 68, I have to be content with a 175 or better.

The next stage is rapid fire, sitting from standing, two strings of ten shots each in a time limit of 60 seconds, at a range of 200 yards. Sitting is naturally a much steadier position, but assuming the position quickly and efficiently takes practice and the manipulating the bolt in such a way as not to desturb your natural alignment and aim takes even more practice. Each shot has to be lined up carefully and the trigger squeeze executed rapidly, but not so rapidly as to disturb the sight picture. After five shots, the shooter must remove the rifle from his shoulder and reload, an action which allows for no fumbling. If I do my part, I can be expected to be rewarded with a score in the high 190's.

At 300 yards, the rapid fire stage is the same, except the position is standing to prone, and the time limit is increased to 70 seconds, although the size of the scoring rings on the target remains the same. Again, if I have judged the wind correctly and have done my part, I should score in the 190's.

The fourth stage consists of 20 shots, slow fire, at a target incorporating a 12" ten ring, at 600 yards, in a time limit of 20 minutes. Again, wind and heat play important roles, with wind speeds often sufficient to move the bullet impact up to 24" and temperatures which can raise the pulse rate to 130 and beyond. I try to fire my string in 12 minutes or less, having concluded that my eyesight begins to fail due to the effects of overheating on a firing line where the temperatures are often well above 90 degrees. With perfectly loaded ammunition, outstanding bullets, and adequate wind doping, I can expect a score of 195 or above.

More to the point for double rifles specifically is international skeet shooting, where the targets move about 100 mph., the gun stock must be touching the hip bone when the target is called for and cannot be shouldered until the target appears, and there is a variable delay of 0 to 3 seconds between the command "Pull" and the release of the trap. If you are using a S/S double rifle with double triggers, try shooting this course with a similarly configured shotgun, preferably one with barrel inserts for a smaller gauge, which increase the barrel weight to more closely approximate the balance of a DR. Most skeet fields are not set up to throw international targets and do not have the delay feature, but asking your friend who is shooting with you to vary the release times works just as well for practice purposes. There will be no problem creating increased adrenaline flow and rapid breathing, especially at station 8, where you face the trap houses and the targets fly almost directly overhead. The time for reaction is virtually nil.

Last Sunday was the last day of our deer season. I was walking back to the vehicle after a fruitless two hour wait in a ground blind and another hour's wandering through my property, when I noticed movement and the flicker of a white tail on the farm road in front of me. I put my BRNO 21H 7X64 Mauser to my shoulder and peered through the Unertl 4X scope. I could make out a good sized doe about 100 yards away, standing broadside in the path. There was a slight rise between me and the deer, so there was no possibility of using the kneeling or sitting position. Using the same technique of trigger control and aim I have practiced for years on the rifle range, I set the trigger, lined up the post reticle and squeezed off the shot. The deer dropped in its tracks.


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Nakihunter
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Loc: New Zealand
Re: how do you prepare [Re: xausa]
      #93981 - 10/01/08 11:48 AM

The only competitive shooting I have done is at the local Deer Stalker club annual shoots & inter branch shoots. However I have been involved in university level sport.

The pressure I have felt when about to shoot an animal has been much higher. Most times I am relaxed & "cold" enough to calculate my shot. But there are some occasions when I have had my heart racing & hands shaking. This has never been the case at the range shoots. The greatest "pressure signs" are the butterflies & bats in my stomach which suddenly trun to pheasants after the shot. The pressure is even greater if the animal runs after the shot - "Oh no! have I lost it?" syndrome. The satisfaction when I find the animal drilled throuhg the heart or the shoulders is greater than a top place at the club shoot.

I have never shot at charging game or at dangerous game. But I have been charged by elephants on 5 or 6 occasions and once by a sloth bear with a cub. The pressure & excitement on those occasions was incredible. If I was hunting under those circumstances & needed to shoot, that would certainly be far greater pressure than when shooting at deer or non-DG.

I am currently reading Capstick (again). His DR shot at a charging lion that hits him & which he finally kills with a spear belonging to his tracker ....that must have been some pressure!

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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xausa
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Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: Nakihunter]
      #93994 - 10/01/08 03:54 PM

Everybody reacts to pressure differently. My reaction to dangerous game is to go into "automatic" mode. The shakes come after it's all over. When I shot my first elephant, I suddenly reminded myself that I needed to reload after the elephant was down. I opened the bolt, only to find my rifle fully loaded. Puzzled, I looked down at the four fired shells on the ground, and only then came to the realization that I had re [/list] loaded automatically without even being aware of it. When I was shooting, it was as though everything was in slow motion, and I had no recollection of the noise of the rounds gong off.

This didn't happen on later occasions when I shot elephant.

Pressure at a club shoot is one thing. Pressure at the National Matches, which I have attended probably 30 times is something else. The greatest pressure arises at the end of a string when shooting a good score. I once shot a 200-18X on the 600 yard reduced target at 100 yards, with the X ring only 3/4" in diameter. By the last shot I was so pumped up, I am surprised I even hit the target, but the last shot was a "10".


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Nakihunter
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Reged: 13/10/07
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Loc: New Zealand
Re: how do you prepare [Re: xausa]
      #94001 - 10/01/08 07:00 PM

Fair comment. I hope I get to shoot a buffalo & leopard in Africa & a brown bear in Alaska.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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k80
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Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: how do you prepare [Re: Nakihunter]
      #94429 - 17/01/08 12:45 AM

One of the reasons I ask this question
was to find a cross section of practice routines.
I have been a competitive shooter in several
different disciplines. The best practice for
me has been some way to put pressure on by
shooting against someone of my skill level
or higher. The practice that regiments certain
shoots , the ones that you make as a confidence
builder and the ones you struggle with to develop
your skills is also effective for me. Good technique,
safe gun handling, should be also part of any
practice. Setting up a video of your session
can often tell you volumes. If you shoot in a vest
wear it, same glasses etc. Always end a session
on a positive effort.


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