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Dave_Hall
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Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H
#92370 - 22/12/07 05:38 AM

I was looking over some papers I had on my deck.I found a Champlin Firearms Gun Vault paper that had Marks 700 for sale.($105,000 if you wanted to know.)Mark had it built in 1997 and in DEC. of '06 the bluing on the barrels was at 70%.That meens it had to be use,but you never see it in any of his Vids.His beloved .577 and the 600 mostly why not the 700 was it because of the weight 16lbs 6ozs.Any one know?.Dave

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richla
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Dave_Hall]
#93965 - 10/01/08 08:14 AM

I thought this was an interesting question, and perhaps this push to the top might generate an answer, if anyone has any info?
Thanks,
Rich

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4seventy
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: richla]
#93968 - 10/01/08 09:20 AM

Yeah, it is an interesting question, and I remember thinking the same thing when the rifle first appeared for sale some time back.
There was a rumour that MS has a new book to be released sometime this year, and maybe it will shed some light. (if the rumour turns out to be true)

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Ripp
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: 4seventy]
#93979 - 10/01/08 11:34 AM

It was on the table last year in Reno at SCI --I picked it up and took a peek--thing was massive but for its size handled fairly well..

No answer as to why he is selling it--rumor there was divorce and needed money..as to why it never shows up..no idea..

Ripp

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Dave_Hall
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#93982 - 10/01/08 11:52 AM

On Marks new video Greatest Hippo Charges at the start of the DVD he says about a new book sometime this year.I hope its soon.Thanks for keep the question alive.Maybe Allen would know about the 700.Dave

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ArnoldB
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Dave_Hall]
#93996 - 10/01/08 04:27 PM

http://youtube.com/profile?user=snuffynra is that Mr Sullivan uploading the video's?

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NE450No2
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ArnoldB]
#93997 - 10/01/08 05:17 PM

These are just rumors, but from what I have heard the 700 has come up short on penetration.

Last time I talked to Mark he had nice things to say about his 600, but he was heading to England to get two 577's. Watsons if I remember correctly.

I have handled his Marcel Thys 600, it, a Jeffery under lever, and a P Orr are the ONLY 600's I have handled that felt like proper hunting doubles.

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Ripp
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ArnoldB]
#94003 - 10/01/08 11:05 PM

No matter what you feel about him--that kind of action sure gets the old heart a beatin..

Ripp

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richla
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94007 - 11/01/08 12:05 AM

I agree. I'm still not sure what to make of MS, but I keep watching, and those big doubles fascinate me.

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Anonymous
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Dave_Hall]
#94012 - 11/01/08 03:16 AM

I have hunted with MS twice, and enjoyed it very much both times. He is a very nice fellow, though gets a bad rap from a lot of folks, which he understands is just part of it.

When we discussed double rifles, he claimed to me that the 600 Nitro Express was his calibre of choice hands down. However, he did admit the 577NE is a very close second. I was hunting with a London made J. Rigby 577NE that he was very interested in. Never mentioned his old 700 Watson though. I did ask him if he had a favorite maker, his reply was "anything British". I would not hesitate to hire him again.

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BigFiveJack
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ]
#94126 - 12/01/08 05:03 PM

Hi Sinner,

Thanks for reporting your experiences with MS. I had a half

hour phone call with him once ON HIS DIME. He was good to

talk to. And yes, really endorses the Brithish double rifle!

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
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Ripp
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ]
#94155 - 13/01/08 07:28 AM

Quote:

I have hunted with MS twice, and enjoyed it very much both times. He is a very nice fellow, though gets a bad rap from a lot of folks, which he understands is just part of it.

Sinner,

Do you have any photos for the game you harvested?? He always seems to get exceptional game..just curious..

Thanks

Ripp

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Anonymous
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: BigFiveJack]
#94157 - 13/01/08 08:06 AM

Jack,

I'm glad you spoke with him. The folks that have actually spent time with him really like him, as you and I do. Balls of African steel, and a class act from what I know of him personally.

Ripp,

I do of Hippo and Cape buffalo, both excellent specimens as you eluded to, though the photographs were taken with a non digital 35mm hasselblad. I have to transfer them to digital one of these days to view them on computer somehow.

Cheers.

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GarBy
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ]
#94394 - 16/01/08 02:23 PM

I spoke with Mark at the DSC on Saturday at the Champlin's booth. I told him that I saw his 700 at Reno last year...also at Champlin's. He said they had it for about a year or so and he got it back. He had it in camp this past year ('07) and that a client bought it right there and then.
And yes, he seems to be a very nice gent.

Gary

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Dave_Hall
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: GarBy]
#94396 - 16/01/08 02:35 PM

I wonder if the client payed the $105,000 for it or got it for a little less since it didn't sell for a 105 on the market.

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Ripp
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Dave_Hall]
#94426 - 17/01/08 12:05 AM

Quote:

I wonder if the client payed the $105,000 for it or got it for a little less since it didn't sell for a 105 on the market.

Wow--think of that....$105,000. for a gun...what the hell...

Guess I am old fashion or whatever--I just wonder how much money one has to make to justify paying $105,000 for a gun??? I make a very good living, IMHO, -whether I lived in California or Montana, again, not bragging just a bit bewildered--I guess we all have priorities and a lot of money to some is not much to others... this just seems like a large sum of money to me for a "gun"...

Ripp

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94433 - 17/01/08 01:22 AM

At current exchange rates Ripp a new Holland Royal is $180k !! best, Mike

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Anonymous
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94446 - 17/01/08 03:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Wow--think of that....$105,000. for a gun...what the hell... Guess I am old fashion or whatever--I just wonder how much money one has to make to justify paying $105,000 for a gun??? I make a very good living, IMHO, -whether I lived in California or Montana, again, not bragging just a bit bewildered--I guess we all have priorities and a lot of money to some is not much to others... this just seems like a large sum of money to me for a "gun"...

Ripp

Most of the top collectors make at least 50 million a year in income. I know it sounds like a lot but a $105k is chicken fee for a best London DR these days. Admittedly I have spent my fair share, and have enough fancy guns to know what a beating it is to keep up with it all. As one of the posters here mentioned, a new H&H will set you back a minimum of $180k. However, there is so many levels to this trade, a lot of you don't know how high it really goes. Bob Lee pays Peter Nelson (just 1 maker) $3,000,000.00 a year to just make guns for him and knowone else. Bob Peterson was the same way, and recognized the value in such pieces will only elevate as the years pass. Hell even the Italians and Austrians are there, the King of Spain just paid $1,200,000.00 for (2) Torcoli engraved Fabbri shotguns! A best Peter Hofer double rifle will set you back a cool $250,000.00

The numbers have been crazy for many many years, but if you got it, spend it, you only live once. Just like anything in life there's the A, B, C, and D game. I'm not saying your better for having the "best" guns, rather it's just where your personal desires, wealth, and level of knowledge lie, that equates to a fantastic collection of fine guns or not.

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bigdog
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ]
#94474 - 17/01/08 09:06 AM

You don't have to be rich to own a 700 nitro, you just have to want one bad enough to make other sacrifices!

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Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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500Nitro
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: bigdog]
#94475 - 17/01/08 09:13 AM

Quote:

You don't have to be rich to own a 700 nitro, you just have to want one bad enough to make other sacrifices!

100% correct.

And that applies to most good DR's.

ie Look at the price of Boats, Harley's etc.
Same price as good guns.

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Dave_Hall
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: 500Nitro]
#94482 - 17/01/08 10:25 AM

And the great old Gibson Les Pauls and SGs that go from $20,000 to God knows what.Guitars and Big Bore rifles are my thing.

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Anonymous
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: bigdog]
#94489 - 17/01/08 11:23 AM

Quote:

You don't have to be rich to own a 700 nitro, you just have to want one bad enough to make other sacrifices!

I never said one needed to be rich to own a 700NE. There's several available in the trade at less tha $60,000.00

I was referring to guns $100,000.00 and up, not random DR's of similar calibres. You misunderstood my post.

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Ripp
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ]
#94555 - 18/01/08 02:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You don't have to be rich to own a 700 nitro, you just have to want one bad enough to make other sacrifices!

I never said one needed to be rich to own a 700NE. Let me be more clear, I was referring to guns $100,000.00 and up, not random DR's of similar calibres.

In my humble opinion, if you have to sacrifice to buy a $100,000.00 gun, your out of your league, and shouldn't do it. You need a certain level of knowledge and wealth to play at this level. It's not just about buying the expensive gun while your house is mortgaged, its also about being able to off the piece, for a profit without getting hurt. It's a very small world at the top in this trade, let's not pretend otherwise.

*** I agree with everthing said since my last post--wanted to post what I did to see how others felt and get a bit of dialogue going--

As stated by 500Nitro I believe--its no different than buying a Harley or boat or whatever other than the fact the double will still be worth the same or more as time progresses.. while the afore mentioned items will only decrease in value...

Having come from very humble means while a farm lad in N Dakota--to me, however, $100,000. still seems like a lot of money..

I envy those who can order/purchase these types of weapons if only so for a brief period of time--for me, the thought of hiking throught Botswana, Zimbabwe or Tanzania carrying a .577 double would be an unbelievable experience...

Thanks

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Anonymous
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94564 - 18/01/08 03:16 AM

Ripp,

Check your PM for the info you requested on Hofer.

Cheers.

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Ripp
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ]
#94574 - 18/01/08 06:31 AM

Have responded--thank you

Ripp

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BigFiveJack
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94611 - 18/01/08 02:20 PM

Yes, all these numbers are relative to a persons total

weath/income per year. If you're wealth in total is 1 million

dollars and you somehow loose an envelope containing 1

thousand dollars, you'll be mad at yourself but it really has

no effect on your wealth. So if you are worth a billion and

you loose an envelope containing 1 million dollars the same is

true. I don't expect that will ever be me by the way.

The 700 NE is a stupid caliber anyway, and if I could spend

as much money as I wanted to on sporting arms I'd only buy a

700 if it was way under priced so I could sell it within a

few months for at least 20% profit. I'd carry an 8.5 pound

375 Flanged Mag through the bush with a bearer carrying my

16 pound 600 a step behind me.

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member

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Sarg
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94624 - 18/01/08 05:28 PM

I say guys ,I have read several times that 700 Ne is not up to much !( I have never used one )
So why would a 12 bore (around 730) with lead slugs be any good ? or so the legend goes !

Thanks

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bigdog
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94693 - 19/01/08 01:05 PM

sinner,
Not all of us have million dollar collections and many of us do have to sacrifice to buy an expensive. Some of us appreciate the finer things in life weather we have a lot of money or not. Maybe a fine double means more to us poor folks that do have to make sacrifices to buy such a gun. While I think it is great that you have such a nice collection, and I sincerely mean that, do talk down to those of us that have to sacrifice some things for a nice double.I resent being told that I should stay out of certain fields. Kind of seems a little snobbish, hope that was not your intent.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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hoppdoc
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: bigdog]
#94721 - 19/01/08 07:16 PM

I have no problems with those with deep pockets who play with the upper crust of Doubles,speedboats,cars,etc.To envy them is ridiculous.It all about how you enjoy what you experience not what you possess.

I don't want to possess any of those high end toys,although I would like to handle them.Their expense causes them to become a form of art.Couldn't enjoy using them anyway due to the cost.Do they function better than cheaper versions or is it just appearances?

Face it, if you wanted to hunt Africa you can do it with a redone CZ550 bolt in whatever caliber you like--The excitement of popping the same animals is the same as the multimillionaire with his highend rifles.

Doubles are great but if I couldn't have one and still hunt DG in Africa- No problem.

Ultimately it is about what we experience and the we choices we make, not about the size of the pile of money we can sit on!! Past a certain functional point wanting flashier toys is wasted emotion/effort.

That being said I do think there is a real joyous quality to being a true man of leisure--RICH, so to speak. To me it means you don't have to work at an occupation to maintain your lifestyle!!Working all the time gets old and consumes time that could be better used for personal development.By the time one can retire your too old to do many of the things you enjoy!!Being "well off" means you still have to work to survive.Being "rich" means you get up in the morning and don't think of what you HAVE to do somuch as what you WANT to do!!

Again, virtually all the world HAS to work to survive. Forget the high end toys--It would be a true blessing to be a man of leisure and hunt Africa along with other pursuits.

Edited by hoppdoc (19/01/08 10:54 PM)

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Marrakai
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: hoppdoc]
#94729 - 19/01/08 11:42 PM

hoppdoc:
Can't fault your sentiments, but they apply to DRs as well. A border-engraved Birmingham boxlock extractor with dark bores is still a fine working double, but will cost you a fraction of the price of an engraved London sidelock in top condition. In the hunting field, your imagination will convert the 'lesser' gun into the 'best'!

Others may not agree, but IMHO even a really, really crappy double is still more fun to hunt with than the best bolt-rifle ever built.

My advice to the guy who has convinced himself he will never afford a DR is to go grab a Baikal SxS .30-06, put decent open sights on it (express or ghost-ring), and still-hunt a whitetail season in the thick stuff.

Am I one-eyed? Maybe, just a bit...!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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bonanza
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94733 - 20/01/08 12:12 AM

I saw some Peter Hofer rifles as the Vintagers this year. I truly respect the man's artistry, but they seem more at home in an Antoni Gaudi exhibition.

I know some men really love a showy gun (I've seen it plenty at the skeet range) but for me, a 500/465 H&H Royal (or Purdey) with simple English scroll and nice dark case coloring is perfection.

B.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Anonymous
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: bigdog]
#94747 - 20/01/08 05:05 AM

Quote:

sinner,
Not all of us have million dollar collections and many of us do have to sacrifice to buy an expensive. Some of us appreciate the finer things in life weather we have a lot of money or not. Maybe a fine double means more to us poor folks that do have to make sacrifices to buy such a gun. While I think it is great that you have such a nice collection, and I sincerely mean that, do talk down to those of us that have to sacrifice some things for a nice double.I resent being told that I should stay out of certain fields. Kind of seems a little snobbish, hope that was not your intent.

My intention was not to "talk down" to anyone, rather to educate. I'm just being honest, so if you want to fault me for that, go right ahead.

Cheers.

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Ripp
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: ]
#94750 - 20/01/08 05:28 AM

Quote:

Quote:

My intention was not "talk down" to anyone, rather to educate. I'm just being honest, so if you want to fault me for that, go right ahead.

Cheers.

Come on everyone---lets have fun on this site and be informative with one another.. I took the info from Sinner as informative--sorry if someone has taken it otherwise...

In addition Sinner has been very helpful in assisting me with other items on this site..so thank you for that.

Personally, its awesome to see weapons such as those discussed... and those that can afford the expensive have probably earned it--so great for them..my hat is off to you..

Hoppdoc,

You are dead on with your comments---regarding rich, well off etc..I think something all of us should remember which my wife reminds me of frequently is--LIFE IS NOT A DESTINATION BUT A JOURNEY..ENJOY THE TRIP...

Ripp

--------------------
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JabaliHunter
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Ripp]
#94756 - 20/01/08 06:00 AM

Any hand crafted double is a work of art and can be appreciated as such.

Some DRs are like grand master paintings and as such, most of us can only admire them in museums, whereas some can admire them in their homes and offices. Others DRs may be grand masters that have a had a harder life and thus have a lower financial value, but are grand masters nonetheless. Still others are art in the tradition of the great victorian industrial machines of the past, still work flawlessly and will forever be admired for this.

Then there is modern art!

The point is that in the great world of DRs, there is something for everyone to enjoy and admire, and ultimately hunt with if one so chooses...

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bigdog
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: JabaliHunter]
#94759 - 20/01/08 06:41 AM

No problem here. Hell, I like all double rifles!

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: bigdog]
#94762 - 20/01/08 08:15 AM

"Others may not agree, but IMHO even a really, really crappy double is still more fun to hunt with than the best bolt-rifle ever built.

My advice to the guy who has convinced himself he will never afford a DR is to go grab a Baikal SxS .30-06, put decent open sights on it (express or ghost-ring), and still-hunt a whitetail season in the thick stuff."

I agree completely. Every old gun has a history and story, if they could only speak!

Also, I think DRs ARE affordable by the average guy. Just put your mind to it, save, and shop around. A back action BPE in decent shape is only a few grand and will slay deer with the same aplomb in the 21st century that it did in the 19th, and has style in spades. As was pointed out, guys somehow afford harleys, bass boats, new pickups, etc. I drive a well maintained like new 10 year old truck. With the 20-25k saved by not changing it out at 5, I can by another double. Drive it til 15, there's another. I haven't had cable in over a decade (or a tv for that matter). At $75-100/month, that's another double, etc. These aren't even sacrifices, just priorities and lifestyle choices.

I took what Sinner was saying to be that it isn't prudent to risk money that is important to you on something as thinly traded and illiquid as guns, especially high end ones where the market is VERY thin. That's sound advice.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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bwana600nitro
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Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
#94863 - 21/01/08 12:34 PM

You could see Marks 700 on a lion hunt in his film Shot to Death!

Big cannon looks to damn big to handle, I'd much prefer his 600. I handled one of Thys 600's and it felt very spry even at 14lbs.

Bwana

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Dave_Hall
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Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 185
Loc: PA. ,U.S.A.

Re: Mark Sullivans-- Watson Bros 700 H&H [Re: bwana600nitro]
#94995 - 23/01/08 06:37 AM

bwana600 your right that is the 700 Mark never shoots it,tho that sucks.Its on Winston Stalcups Lion hunt(#6 on the DVD).It has the button on the front of the fore-end and a better recoil pad(black not red) I see I put it on slow so I could see the features of the rifle.The 600 has a latch underneath the fore-end.How did you pick that out? My favorite hunt on Shot to Death is the last one where Mark rock the hell out of the problem Bull with the 600.Dave

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