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hoppdoc
.400 member

Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double??
#86865 - 09/10/07 10:48 PM

Allright folks--

We have plenty of newly manufactured Doubles out there in 470, etc.

What would be a great new caliber for the Double makers to
sell to you?? For how much??

Who would you want to make the gun??

How about Chapuis doing a 450/400 for a reasonable $$?

How about Merkel/Chapuis doing a 577 lite??!!

What caliber/maker Double would you like to see come on the market?? Is everything great as is??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86868 - 09/10/07 11:33 PM

Quote:

Allright folks--

We have plenty of newly manufactured Doubles out there in 470, etc.

What would be a great new caliber for the Double makers to
sell to you?? For how much??

Who would you want to make the gun??

How about Chapuis doing a 450/400 for a reasonable $$?

How about Merkel/Chapuis doing a 577 lite??!!

What caliber/maker Double would you like to see come on the market?? Is everything great as is??

**Personally I like the nostalgia of the older calibers--thinking of hunters of the past and what they faced with similar guns, etc..

Heym recently come out with the 450/400 at a reasonable price and a very fine gun--plan to take a peak at them at the SCI show in Reno ..

As to a 577 lite---YIKES... I have personally shot a couple of lighter 577's (11 lbs.) and Not really excited to do it again--there is a huge difference in shooting a 11 lb 577 versus a 14 lb 577..the old logic is you carry them a whole lot more than you shoot them..but IMHO.. this is an exception..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Ripp]
#86871 - 10/10/07 01:20 AM

Ripp:
I assume hoppdoc is referring to a light nitro cartridge, rather than a light-weight full-nitro .577!

No doubt you are all tired of hearing my opinion of this cartridge!

I reckon a modern DR like the Heym or even the Searcy 'Classic' chambered for the .577/90/650 load would be an absolute hoot! I'd happily pay ten grand plus a bit for such a rifle, if the weight distribution and balance was correct.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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hoppdoc
.400 member

Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Marrakai]
#86872 - 10/10/07 01:50 AM

Marrakai--

Correct!!

Such a gun would be a blast on Buff and other DG--

A bit light for max penetration on Ele but tuskers are in a different price range formost of us.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (10/10/07 03:10 AM)

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peter
removed

Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86873 - 10/10/07 02:50 AM

yes
a light nitro 577, 3" 2 7/8 or 20gauge X 577 wiil be the new order of the day, good for boar, bear, deer, buff and pretty much anything there is no such thing as overgunned.

peter

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hoppdoc
.400 member

Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: peter]
#86874 - 10/10/07 03:35 AM

A balanced nice handling 11 pound 577 in a Merkel or Chapuis would be a great entry level dream gun.I would gladly pay 10K for such a gun.

Not good for Ele?? Conceptually sabot technology could help shoot a bullet with a better SD but reality says thats ridiculous and will never happen.

Still I think it would be a great Double!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (10/10/07 03:40 AM)

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93mouse
.375 member

Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Slovenia

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86877 - 10/10/07 05:05 AM

How about .450 N.E. for ~ 8000 $?

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JohnTheGreek
.300 member

Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: 93mouse]
#86884 - 10/10/07 07:36 AM

How about a 450/400 built by Ruger on their Gold Label shotgun action ?!?!?!?!?!

PLEASE !?!?!

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BigFiveJack
.333 member

Reged: 25/12/05
Posts: 256
Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: JohnTheGreek]
#86892 - 10/10/07 10:48 AM

JTG,

I do not agree. It's a shotgun action, leave it at that

except for maybe a 30-40 Kraig or 30-30 or lighter caliber.

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member

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hoppdoc
.400 member

Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86896 - 10/10/07 01:55 PM

Someone correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a 577 Lite Double require a 12 gauge size action/reciever instead of a 20 gauge??

Thus those of us who are somewhat financially challenged could have a 577 lite and an alternate 12 gauge set of barrels as well!! Neat!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: 93mouse]
#86898 - 10/10/07 02:50 PM

Quote:

How about .450 N.E. for ~ 8000 $?

To me, a better deal than a .470.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Paul
.400 member

Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86901 - 10/10/07 03:54 PM

Yes, I think a new .577 Nitro for black would be a hoot. The .577 bp loading with a soft-lead, 650-grain bullet was Sir Samuel Baker's favourite. With modern caps, smokeless powder and deep-grooved, lubricated bullets, maybe we could treat it like a .22 rimfire and clean it whenever.

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Rustyzipper
.275 member

Reged: 20/10/03
Posts: 83
Loc: North of the Zambezi, in Miser...

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Paul]
#86921 - 10/10/07 09:51 PM

Dreamers have gotten lots of things started. Comustion engines, cars, revolutions, etc. But this is a reasonable dream. I am with you guys. DRT has lots going for it. My rolling block with the 58 cal barrel, 705 gr minnies, does it well. But with a smokeless cartridge and two barrels? Priceless. Piggies look out!

Rustyzipper

--------------------
NMLRA Life, NRA Annual,DRSS, .......

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hoppdoc
.400 member

Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Rustyzipper]
#86923 - 10/10/07 10:23 PM

I would love to hammer pigs or bigger with a 577 Lite--
that would be a blast!!!

From past experience shooting animals with big bores begets a different reaction than smaller caliber high velocity rounds.A crushing blow more than a pop----

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86926 - 10/10/07 11:50 PM

OK guys, I don't usually post photos of this nature on the internet, so take it in good faith.
This is an ENTRANCE wound!

The boar was put up by my friend and his dad, and ran across my front offering a shot on-the-run from perhaps 25 or 30 metres. At the first shot (which I later found was a perfect heart-shot anyway) the boar faltered, then turned to run directly away so he received the contents of the second barrel from the rear. The large entry wound was caused by a 2-inch chunk of pelvic bone being blown out of the wound, making the slice. The piece of bone was found lying on the ground near the fallen boar, clean and white! I deeply regret not photographing it at the time.

The trophy photo had to be taken carefully to hide the gaping wound on the right hip! The second bullet lodged in the brisket, by the way.

I just love the .577 x 2 3/4 Light Nitro!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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JohnTheGreek
.300 member

Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86936 - 11/10/07 01:03 AM

Quote:

Someone correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a 577 Lite Double require a 12 gauge size action/reciever instead of a 20 gauge??

Hello, Ruger.....

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86941 - 11/10/07 02:56 AM

Well, I guess I am going to be in a minority here - I would like to see an outside hammer rifle like the Pedersoli in 500 or 577 BPE.

If they could re-engineer the design to have a rotary underlever, then all the better.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Marrakai]
#86944 - 11/10/07 04:28 AM

Marrakai

I have had something similar happen on a rear hip shot with a .375. A massive wound. No photos though.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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rigbymauser
.400 member

Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: NitroX]
#86946 - 11/10/07 04:40 AM

A Heym in 577/500 3 1/8"...a true Holland & Holland classic....or a lite 577 nitro, however whenever champlin firearms finds time to send me my 10 bore double I think I will be very pleased with that one....a little huff N`puff from a moderate 3 1/4" 10g.....hahaha.

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butchloc
.300 member

Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: rigbymauser]
#86947 - 11/10/07 05:37 AM

O YEA - exposed hammers, underlever be still my heart

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Tatume
.400 member

Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: butchloc]
#86953 - 11/10/07 06:38 AM

I'd like to see a nice (affordable) rifled 12 ga with QD rings and folding iron sights.

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empirevr
.375 member

Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Tatume]
#86958 - 11/10/07 07:57 AM

+1

For some modern guns in moderate 'light nitro' /bpe style calibers, the 500 bpe,the 577 bpe, all using nitro loads nothing too harsh, and yes the 12b rifle and not just the funny rifled slug guns that are about now, why not a double, properly built and regulated that will fire even the 3.5" carts.? Perhpas i am thinking more paradox now......

A full 12b rifle 3/3.5" chambers would be super too.

Nothing like big, slow heavy calibers...safe to fire and more effective than ever at stopping/killing.

Ben

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BigFiveJack
.333 member

Reged: 25/12/05
Posts: 256
Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: empirevr]
#86959 - 11/10/07 10:22 AM

No long gun is more beautiful than a double with exposed

hammers and "island" or "near island" locks. The .585 bore

in such a rifle would is magical. Marrakai's 20/577 is an

outstanding representative. Truly wondrous!

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member

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1980E26
.300 member

Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 195
Loc: USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#86962 - 11/10/07 11:31 AM

Make mine a .577 either 3" or better yet a 3-1/4" (lower pressures-especially if built on a shotgun frame). Regulate it for the 650 at 1850 and go on down the road. Im sure Demas would do this provided factory ammo was availabe from Kynamco. I got in touch with David at Kynamco and asked the very question about getting ammo for Demas to use for regulation 90/650 loads and he said yes. There would be a min order amount but the option is there. I do not shoot factory ammo as its way over priced but gun makers want factory fodder to regulate. Demas is currently making seveal 100/750 guns that should be here in the US soon. They weight in at an even 14 pounds. Change the load to 90/650 and keep the weight at 14 pounds and it would be a dream to shoot. With 600-610gr cast bullets it would be big fun to shoot and very inexpensive to blast with. One never knows when a herd of charging milk jugs might need to be culled:)))) bang..bang..............bang..bang

Corbin

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: 1980E26]
#86977 - 11/10/07 08:23 PM

Yes, a new light Nitro 577 would be very cool ! I Have been looking for a top lever hammerless 577 BPE for a couple of years now ,found a few ,but barrels a little long or damascus or buggered or all of the above ,also think old steel barrels won,t take a soild too well,which is needed I think for full penetration on real big stuff (Marrakai would know better than I )Have now ended up with 12b rifle Top lever hammerless 3 in 15 Lbs job ! still no solid and a lack of good bullets for 12b rifle ,and no load info is a problem now ,but a very cool rifle all the same !

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Sarg]
#87012 - 12/10/07 07:37 AM

Merkle can build a nice $7500 double rilfe.

450/400 3" is perfect as you can load it without fillers AND Hornady sells it.

However, it's the 45-70 that would sell enough to bring the unit cost down.

A 577 lite nitro is beyond cool.

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400NitroExpress
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Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: bonanza]
#87022 - 12/10/07 11:20 AM

Quote:

450/400 3" is perfect as you can load it without fillers AND Hornady sells it.

It isn't something to avoid. The best .400 loads I've found use filler.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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empirevr
.375 member

Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#87046 - 13/10/07 06:05 AM

-may i have the site for Demas please Corbin???

Thankyou

Ben

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1980E26
.300 member

Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 195
Loc: USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: empirevr]
#87057 - 13/10/07 11:35 AM

The Demas site is

www.demas.fr/

Enjoy

Corbin

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DUGABOY1
.400 member

Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Marrakai]
#87566 - 22/10/07 09:24 AM

That is a nice shot on that pig! I had a V. Haffner double chambered for the 577 2 3/4", and it was fun to hunt with. I have another V. Haffner cape gun that is chambered for 20GA,on the left, and the 58 Berdan Carbine on the right, that is a bird/hog killer. Fun calibers both!

Marakai,I was looking at your webpage, and I was woundering if you book hunts, or is that just your family outdoor Scrapbook? If you do book hunts in the top end, I'd like some information on open dates, and prices!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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DUGABOY1
.400 member

Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#87567 - 22/10/07 09:46 AM

Quote:

Someone correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a 577 Lite Double require a 12 gauge size action/reciever instead of a 20 gauge??

Thus those of us who are somewhat financially challenged could have a 577 lite and an alternate 12 gauge set of barrels as well!! Neat!!

Unless you simply wanted a set of 12 ga barrels for your double rifle, then a 20ga size action is fine for a 577 2 3/4" Most cape guns with a barrel for a 577 have a 20 ga shot barrel. The 577 cartridges are very low pressure, and the cases are smaller than the 20 ga shot shell, hence the 20/577 cartridge. 20 ga brass necked down to .585"

The Ruger Gold lable action is pleanty strong for converting to a 577!

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: 1980E26]
#87573 - 22/10/07 10:14 AM

Corbinshell,

What do the Demas rifles sell for in the US? Would you have any idea?

Thanks and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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1980E26
.300 member

Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 195
Loc: USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: mehulkamdar]
#87588 - 22/10/07 12:36 PM

Anywhere from $15-17K depending on wood, extended tangs, engraving, etc.

Ken Bush will have one in very soon.

Email me directly and I can forward photos of the rifle he is getting.

Corbin
corbinshell@mindspring.com

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: 1980E26]
#87637 - 23/10/07 01:08 PM

Mac:

Quote:

Marakai,I was looking at your webpage, and I was woundering if you book hunts, or is that just your family outdoor Scrapbook?

I have a couple of mates in the safari business here in the Northern Territory, but no, those photos are just family and friends. I have made a new hunting page for the Marrakai web-site, with more up-to-date photos and accompanying stories, must get it up there soon.

Also regarding action size for the .577 Light Nitro, you are quite correct about the minimum size requirement for chambering the cartridge, but I respectfully disagree about the best size action to use. If you want to get the weight distribution correct for a sweet-handling well-balanced double, you really must go for a larger action than 20-bore. If making a 10lb or 10.5lb rifle, the weight must be in the action or the thing will handle like a slug. Big actions, heavy breech-sections on the barrel-group, and nice slim muzzles is the secret for success on a hunting double IMHO.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DUGABOY1
.400 member

Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: Marrakai]
#87670 - 24/10/07 08:36 AM

Quote:

Mac:

Also regarding action size for the .577 Light Nitro, you are quite correct about the minimum size requirement for chambering the cartridge, but I respectfully disagree about the best size action to use. If you want to get the weight distribution correct for a sweet-handling well-balanced double, you really must go for a larger action than 20-bore. If making a 10lb or 10.5lb rifle, the weight must be in the action or the thing will handle like a slug. Big actions, heavy breech-sections on the barrel-group, and nice slim muzzles is the secret for success on a hunting double IMHO.

You are right of course, especially if you want shorter barrels, then the bulk of the weight would be easier to place between the hands!......BINGO, the light comes on!

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hoppdoc
.400 member

Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Suggestions for a great NEW entry level Double?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
#87674 - 24/10/07 09:21 AM

Alright Chapuis, Merkel, Heym, and you entry level Double makers-- you have heard from knowledgible double owners!!

Make a Double with a 12 gauge or 16 gauge size reciever for optimal handling and watch thing happen!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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