Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: 8x75 mm RS in a double?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
8x75 mm RS in a double?
      #64168 - 17/10/06 02:28 PM

I noticed Heym makes medium calibre double rifles in the 8x75 mm RS chambering.

Has anyone ever seen a rifle or used a rifle in these chambering?

As a rimmed round it answers one of the criticisms of doubles chambered for such as the .300 Win Mag but with similar performance.

I believe it is based on the 9.3x74R case. Is this correct?

Any information and history of the round would be much appreciated. Thanks.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64169 - 17/10/06 02:30 PM

In reply to:

Any information and history of the round would be much appreciated.




Johan will probably say it was the favourite round of my "Uncle Hermann" which is a standing joke between us.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64170 - 17/10/06 02:40 PM

yes, was developt from 9,3x74R around 1930, there exist also a 8x75S rimless and a similar rounds in .318 I bore.
There was a combo in german gun magazin 2 years ago with a 470 NE and a 8x75RS barrel sxs.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: pwm]
      #64191 - 18/10/06 03:51 AM

Is pressure an issue with this round in a double?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Yochanan
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64199 - 18/10/06 04:46 AM

In reply to:

Johan will probably say it was the favourite round of my "Uncle Hermann" which is a standing joke between us.





John,

So, you have finally managed to get up from the plonk tank and checked your email. Vinegar must be in demand since you are so busy Some articles in German? Now, why did I do that...... I sent you the drawings for this cartridge over 6 months ago

Yes, your Uncle Hermann had an O/U double in 8X75R

Cheers
Johan


--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Yochanan]
      #64288 - 19/10/06 02:09 PM

In reply to:

Vinegar must be in demand since you are so busy




That's funny.

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64305 - 20/10/06 02:32 AM

Pressure is in the 35K PSI range. No problem for a double.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64313 - 20/10/06 03:54 AM

John, This is a reprint from the 1980 Cartridges Of The World
4th edition by Frank C. Barnes. Hope this helps.

[image][/image]

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64316 - 20/10/06 04:28 AM

Yeah, it's based on the 9.3X74R case, but pressure is higher. CIP max average for the 8X75RS is 3800 BAR or 55,114 PSI. That's higher than I would be comfortable with in a double for my own use. For comparison, CIP max average for the .375 Flanged Magnum is 3250 BAR or 47,137 PSI: the .30 Super Flanged (.300 Flanged Magnum) is 3200 BAR or 46,412 PSI; The 9.3X74R is 3400 BAR or 49,312 PSI; the .470 NE is 2700 BAR or 39,150 PSI.

The long 8 is a fine cartridge and a better choice in a double rifle than a 63,000 PSI Belted Magnum, but it isn't a low pressure cartridge.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #64318 - 20/10/06 04:45 AM

Sorry, Mark is right. I was reading 8x57.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Yochanan
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: new_guy]
      #64340 - 20/10/06 08:00 PM

John,

I don’t see any trouble of having a modern double in 8X75RS. Pressure for the round (Pmax(MAP) 55114psi 3800 bar. Pezio Cip measuring method) is the same as for 30R Blaser, 8,5X63R, 7X65R Brenneke or 6,5X65R RWS. 8X65RS the figures are Pmax(MAP)58740psi 4050bar.

A double in good quality material shouldn’t have any problem with these cartridges. There been more than a few doubles built for hot rocks like 300 win mag, 458win, 375H&H and they seems to hold up well- Personally I don’t like rimless cartridges in a beak top action design.

If I should rechamber some old double of questionable life and unknown material quality, not been re-proofed I would look at rounds with the lowest possible pressure, in fact, I would most likely not bother with a double that not been re-proofed.

Cheers
Johan


--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
long8R
.224 member


Reged: 25/10/06
Posts: 1
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64674 - 26/10/06 07:44 AM

The 8x75RS was designed by the german DWM under a requirement of Berhs Waffenwerke, Shul. It was introduced circa 1907 and it is based on the 9.3x74R case. As I said in an older post, the 8x75RS is now standard offering for Krieghoffs doubles, single shots and drillings, as well as for Blasers (S2, K95, BBF) and Heyms (80, 88, etc.). It is also chambered in new fine guns ( peter hofer ).

I bought my Krieghoff double 8x75 RS before the summer of 2005 and I used it with open sights during the driven hunts (monterías) season of 2005-2006 (October to February). I finished the season very pleased with the combination of rifle and cartridge. Some hunters here in Spain, and I agree with them, think that a 180 to 200 grains partition type bullet with soft first body (i.e. Nosler Partition, RWS DK, Sologne GPA) moving at muzzle velocity higher than 790 m/s (2,600 f/s) makes a good balance for Spanish (Centre and South) driven hunts, when game (wild boar and red deer mainly, mouflon and fallow deer occasionally) just weight 30 to 160 kg (66 to 330 pounds) but must be shot while running at speed fully pumped of adrenaline pursued by packs of dogs ( rehalas ) formed by hounds ( sabuesos and podencos) and bulldogs (alanos, mastines and now argentine dogos as well).

Although shooting in montería usually means short distance quick shots made using the window offered in dense cover by a narrow rough forest way ( cortadero ), which game cross running for its life, longer shots are sometimes possible. In order to facilitate such longer shots and, moreover, to prepare myself and the rifle for using it on stalking (in Spain and hopefully on plains game in Africa), I put a Nickel Magnum 1.5-6x30 variable riflescope on top of my Krieghoff ( Nickel ) once the 2005-2006 season ended.

My previous open sights regulation gone with the added weight. But after some work with the regulating device that the Krieghoff Classic is provided with (a screw between barrels), I eventually managed to regulate it again, now for the scope, with Sologne GPA ( GPA bullet ) factory load; 196 grains at 836 m/s (2,740 f/s).

The new 2006-2007 season had to start for me on Sunday October 22, and three days before I went to the shooting range to verify regulation. Here it is the target at 50 meters (55 yd) following a R-L (D-I), R-L sequence. All seemed to look fine.

foto 1

And then the great first day of the season arrived. The montería was in a fantastic property in Ciudad Real province, bordering Cabañeros National Park, full of lush pastures, mountain ranges and massifs covered in forests and Mediterranean scrub. When we came to our position, a 10 to 12 meters (33 to 39 ft) wide cortadero within a dense covered mount slope looking at the Estena river, I thought “ops! perhaps the worst place to use my new scope for the first time”. Additionally, it was raining quite hard and a high wind often blew, thus reducing our chance to hear game when approaching. Nevertheless, my 9 years old son an I were absolutely happy and ready for the events to come.

First game we saw were a group of three red deer when they crossed the cortadero at full speed. My son yelled “Dad, the second one!” meaning that second in the running stag row was clearly the biggest. I fired the second twice but I missed at no more than 15 meters (49 ft). I was not really able to correctly aim at the target through the scope (2x) doing the swing needed to hunt running big game (in fact, a swing quite similar to bird shooting). I felt certainly disappointed because it looked like a nice trophy but, anyway, things were just starting.

After some does rushed around, a stag walked through the cortadero and suddenly stopped. I fired immediately but no reaction of the buck was observed, disappearing from view in the cover. I could not believe my miss (this stag was afterwards found dead by the hounds 200 meters away with a lung shot, back from my intended aiming point below the shoulder and above the heart).

Losing rapidly my self-confidence, the third hunting event was a rush of three bucks too. This time I hesitated to fire because all of them looked small to me but nevertheless I fired at the third, ... and I missed. Once again I did not do the swing as it must be done.

Completely frustrated I began to prepare myself for a zero game first montería , and the worst thing was that my son started to grumble “Dad, what are you doing?”. While I was thinking what to answer I saw out of the corner of my eye a wild boar crossing the cortadero at top speed. I fired instinctively and I felt that the boar shrank while running. Fortunately enough my son felt the same and both of us thought that perhaps we could avoid the zero score.

The sound of the wild boar’s run was still in the air when we heard a new run. A stag followed by a doe. Being far more relaxed, I was this time rapid enough for two shots properly swung (DR raison d´être!). With second shot the stag clearly lost support on his right front leg.

The montería ended and we found the wild boar (a male with representative tusks) and the red stag 15 meters (49 ft) away from our position, both with quite well placed shots on the shoulder. Once I did my job the double and the long 8 (I like this name, thank you 400NitroExpress) did their job too.

fotos 2, 3

The stag has a very nice 15 points antlers and thus what began as a kind of nightmare became a wonderful day. Even more, 2005 was, and 2006 was being, really dry years in Spain. Here we were needing rain desperately. On Sunday 22 it rained cats and dogs. Fine.

Best regards,

Long 8R (former 8x75RS, but I forgot my password and have changed my e-mail adress)


Edited by long8R (27/10/06 07:26 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kweber
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Hondo Tx
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: long8R]
      #64958 - 31/10/06 08:39 AM

long 8r, thank you for the story about your hunt! allthough I do not have a double, the 8x75r sounds like a perfect medium cartridge. I have fancied a Krieghoff in .500-.416 with matching 8x75r barrels. I also dream of Africa. slim chance of either in the near future! Kurt.

Edited by kweber (31/10/06 08:40 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dr_Deer
.300 member


Reged: 23/02/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: kweber]
      #189780 - 12/09/11 04:34 PM

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread...

Does a chamber reamer in this cartridge completely remove all traces of a 8x57IRS chamber, or does the "wide" shoulder of the x57IRS remain?

Edited by Dr_Deer (12/09/11 05:02 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
moorjaeger
.224 member


Reged: 13/09/11
Posts: 5
Loc: Germany
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #189909 - 14/09/11 05:01 PM

Here are some informations in German


www.jww.de/r30/vc_content/bilder/firma445/Archiv-2005/030_033_wiederladen_jww_02_0205.pdf


Greetings

Andreas


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #189922 - 15/09/11 12:49 AM

Quote:

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread...

Does a chamber reamer in this cartridge completely remove all traces of a 8x57IRS chamber, or does the "wide" shoulder of the x57IRS remain?




A fired round from the 8x57IRS would be needed, along with a normal fired round from the 8x75R, I'd expect. One might be able to make that connection on measurments at that location.

Prints of the chamber specs in actual size 1:1 could also be measured for an 'idea'.

Trouble is, reamers vary in all chamberings, with new reamers being larger than those having been sharpened. Getting a shoulder measurement is much easier than getting the body measurement of the longer case, however one can extrolate from base to shoulder, making a chart for straight tapers, if you get my drift. That should give a very close measurement of the differences.
normally, the body of the longer case will be larger than the shorter one, unless the shorter case actually has an improved shape, ie: AckImp, etc.

The 8x75RS seems to have a fairly good shoulder, therefore at the 1.8"(approx body length), the 8x75RS should be larger than the 8x57 case.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rolf
.333 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 396
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: DarylS]
      #189956 - 15/09/11 08:30 PM

Gentlemen,

if someone would assist in inserting photos in this thread, I can offer to take some pictures on a double rifle from gunsmith Scheiring of Austria in .375 H&H with an additional barrel set in 8x75 RS.

Date of photo session is 24th of Sept., for on this date I visit the happy owner.

best regards
Rolf


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Rolf]
      #189971 - 16/09/11 02:14 AM

.375H&H - standards in SAAMI and CIP in pezio pressure is 62,000PSI - both US and European.

CUP and CIP (copper pressure) listing is 53,000 and 54,000 respectively.

The 8x75RS is listed as 55,000PSI in CIP rating, 7,000 less than the .375H&H.

I suspect rim/head sizes are close, but do not have that data at hand.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dr_Deer
.300 member


Reged: 23/02/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Rolf]
      #189996 - 16/09/11 01:29 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen,

if someone would assist in inserting photos in this thread, I can offer to take some pictures on a double rifle from gunsmith Scheiring of Austria in .375 H&H with an additional barrel set in 8x75 RS.

Date of photo session is 24th of Sept., for on this date I visit the happy owner.

best regards
Rolf




Rolf,

When you have pics send me a PM and I'll upload the pics on my photobucket account - keen to see such a double


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rolf
.333 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 396
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #190008 - 16/09/11 08:24 PM

Dr_Deer,

all agreed!
Please send me your mail adress, then you can expect to get some huge mails on Sunday, the 25th of September...

best regards
Rolf

BTW: There is also a Scheiring break-top single shot rifle in 7mm STW with full engraving available...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: long8R]
      #321206 - 03/11/18 08:23 PM

Saw this old thread was being read so had a look seeing I started it!

Interesting story by "long8R".

Pity he posted only one post!

I think hunting in a monteria is not as easy as sometimes thought by the numbers of game harvested. Shots are beasts running at full speed, with a narrow gap "window" are not my forte! Perhaps if at closer range than normal. And as said, a very good reason for a double rifle with two very quick shots being available.

I remember one German acquaintance poo pooed double rifles because they only had two shots available, and also any bolt action rifle other than straight pull rifles as he claimed they were too slow to reload. Again driven game was the reason.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #321216 - 04/11/18 02:33 AM

I don't have an 8X75RS, but I do have a Krieghoff combination gun with 16 ga./7X75R barrels. The shot barrel is fitted with a full length insert barrel in 6X52R Bretschneider, which gives me an instantaneous choice of calibers for close range and long range shots.

I also have a Krieghoff drilling in 16/16/8X65RS caliber, and I am quite pleased with it as well. While not as powerful as the 8X75RS, the 8X65RS is no slouch. The ballistics are similar to the wildcat 8mm-'06, which was a popular cartridge immediately after WW II, when ammunition for 8X57IS bring back Mausers was hard to find.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321217 - 04/11/18 06:18 AM

Xausa, Is the insert barrel is adjustable so you can adjust it, that is 'sight' it in to the sights set for the 7x57R barrel?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: DarylS]
      #321233 - 04/11/18 07:25 PM

Quote:

Xausa, Is the insert barrel is adjustable so you can adjust it, that is 'sight' it in to the sights set for the 7x57R barrel?




Yes, it's a K & S
https://www.einstecklauf.de/classic.html

The 6X52R Bretschneider is the .22 Savage Hi Power (5.6X52R) necked up or the .25-35 Winchester (6.5X52R) necked down to 6mm.

The rifle barrel is a 7X75R. btw.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Yochanan
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321240 - 04/11/18 10:48 PM

Quote:

I don't have an 8X75RS, but I do have a Krieghoff combination gun with 16 ga./7X75R barrels. The shot barrel is fitted with a full length insert barrel in 6X52R Bretschneider, which gives me an instantaneous choice of calibers for close range and long range shots.

I also have a Krieghoff drilling in 16/16/8X65RS caliber, and I am quite pleased with it as well. While not as powerful as the 8X75RS, the 8X65RS is no slouch. The ballistics are similar to the wildcat 8mm-'06, which was a popular cartridge immediately after WW II, when ammunition for 8X57IS bring back Mausers was hard to find.




I owned an FN B25 double in 8x57IRS with 65m cm barrels. I sold it to an exchange student from France whom had to re-chambered to 8x65rs for the reason for velocity. The guy thought 165-180 grain frangible bullets like Norma Plastic tip etc. was the medicine for game on driven hunts. Now I regret not keeping the double and had it rechamrered to 8x65RS... 8x57IRS is a bit slow and booring...

I bought an 9,3x74r instead, which, proved to be a nightmare with almost any load availble....saucer size groups as best at 80m is not great for confidence...

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dotchicco
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/16
Posts: 135
Loc: ITALY
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Yochanan]
      #321253 - 05/11/18 06:44 AM

Probably the only reason why this caliber is still nominated is the love affair with H.Goering, as written before. Nowaday, probably, there are better calibers for doubles. The 30R Blaser probably could be a good choice, with several factory loads available. Blaser has a K95 in production, chambered in 8x68S. If it's possible to built a kipplauf in this caliber... Well...
A double in 8x68S should be THE weapon.
Doc

Edited by dotchicco (05/11/18 07:13 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Louis
.375 member


Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: dotchicco]
      #321274 - 06/11/18 04:00 AM

Dotchicco, treat yourself; there will be a 8x68S double-rifle auctioned at the upcoming Springer auction on 8 November, see https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/...mp;currentpos=2 !
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3978
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Louis]
      #321283 - 06/11/18 06:58 AM

Wow that is a seriously nice piece Louis!
Best to get in early Doc & get a bid on that one.....best to ask forgiveness than permission!
Very nice indeed!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dotchicco
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/16
Posts: 135
Loc: ITALY
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Louis]
      #321289 - 06/11/18 08:58 AM

Mamma Mia!!
This is really awsome!
Unfortunately i'm out of budget right now... I have just bought a Mauser Europa.
But this double is what i have imagined in my most unrestrained dreams!
Doc


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: dotchicco]
      #321291 - 06/11/18 10:00 AM

My objections to this object: 1. Rimless cartridge designed for a bolt gun 2. Kaisergriff 3. Fish scale checkering 4. SEM bases but no rings and scope and 5. Engraving straight out of the Suhler design book. Other than that, wonderful!

Seriously, why would anyone choose a rimless cartridge for a double rifle when there is a perfectly satisfactory rimmed alternative?

Kaiser Wilhelm had a withered left arm which he had to compensate for with a peculiar pistol grip. Why would anyone with normal arms want such a thing?

Fish scales may be more decorative, but they are certainly not more functional than normal checkering, and a stock should above all be functional.

Why should someone pay a fortune for a double rifle and then have to go to the additional expense of having it fitted with a scope, unless the original owner carelessly lost the one which fit those bases?

I have exactly the same engraving pattern on the lock plates of both my off the shelf Krieghoff sidelock O/U double rifle and on the lock plates of my off the shelf Krieghoff sidelock drilling as on the lock plates of this rifle. Surely something supposedly this special deserves an original work of art.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2376
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321293 - 06/11/18 03:39 PM

I agree, I have never seen the need to use a rimless cartridge in a double or a falling block when there are so many good rimmed cartridges still available even if only with hand loading.

I have to say that for me the 8x75RS holds a lot of appeal, even without the Herman Goering connection. It is one of those sexy cartridges that looks great and has good performance, especially with 220 and 250 grain bullets. I have always wanted a light weight SxS stalking double in that cartridge and have purchased brass and dies in preparation. One day.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: dotchicco]
      #321298 - 06/11/18 06:11 PM

Quote:

Probably the only reason why this caliber is still nominated is the love affair with H.Goering, as written before. Nowaday, probably, there are better calibers for doubles. The 30R Blaser probably could be a good choice, with several factory loads available. Blaser has a K95 in production, chambered in 8x68S. If it's possible to built a kipplauf in this caliber... Well...
A double in 8x68S should be THE weapon.
Doc




Really?!

Who wants a modern .30R Blaser? Fine for those who want one. Does the job in a modern way. But you do realise NE discussions are on a lot of older cartridges.

As for a 8x68S in a double, fine choice of a bolt action but no way in a double IMO ... unless a rimmed version.


Quote:

Probably the only reason why this caliber is still nominated is the love affair with H.Goering




What an insulting comment to me, the opening poster.

Now if a non retarded look is taken, the 9.3x74R, the parent case, is going strong. The 8mm version, would make a handy rimmed lighter rifle for medium game. Of more power than lesser 8mm, but still rimmed for good extraction.

Proof is it is still chambered in modern double rifles by a number of makers.

And just because some infamous person used one once, only retards obsess on that ... either pro or con ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dotchicco
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/16
Posts: 135
Loc: ITALY
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #321303 - 06/11/18 10:59 PM

Dear Nitrox,
I didn't want to offend anybody; I just was refering to the fact that when someone in a forum or in a FB discussion talk about the 8x75RS, unavoidably someone else talks about H.G. and his predilection for this caliber. It's just an historic objectivity that this caliber is thightly bound to an historical period, and to a specific person. If you take a look to auction web site from germany, you will find many references about this, continuously. My comment was about this, and there was no intenction to offending you. I have always believed that this forum was a place were was possible to talk about firearms, theyr story and theyr owners without preconceptions. So forgive me, probably i have verbalized in a bad way. (I was intending the love affair between goering and the 8x75RS... Not anything else. But my English is not perfect...)
Said this, i agree with you that a rimmed caliber is what a double rifle requires, and that a Rimless caliber is a blasphemy (nevertheless we see thousands of doubles in 30.06.. ).
As you probably remember i'm a collector of uncommon calibers and firearms, (7x66, 8x68S, 9,3x64) and for this reason i was supporting the 8x68S, i know how hard can be (sometime impossible) to find brasses, dies, or reloading supplies for strange calibers... by the way, i agree that this particular caliber has a lot of charm (also for his history in african german colonies). Hope this can clarify the situation.
Doc

Edited by dotchicco (07/11/18 08:08 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: dotchicco]
      #321310 - 07/11/18 05:42 AM

The allegation that the 8X75RS was Herman Goering´s favorite cartridge is anything but a recommendation for it. Personally, I regard Herman Goering's preference for the 8X75RS as a negative, not a reason to be attracted to a cartridge.

Goering had the excuse of being addicted to drugs for some of his excesses, but once dried out and having shed a good deal of excess weight, he presented himself as perhaps the most formidable defendant on the dock at Nürnberg. The psychiatrist who interviewed the prisoners during the trial found him to be the most intelligent of the lot.

Of the "Big Four", Hitler, Goering, Goebels and Himmler, he was probably the least objectionable. "Der Dicke" (The Fat One) undoubtedly enjoyed the most popularity among the German people, and he was a legitimate "Pour le Merite" winner in World War I, who led the Richtofen Staffel after The Red Baron´s death, but his taste was reflected in his love for comic opera uniforms and gaudy jewelry.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dr_Deer
.300 member


Reged: 23/02/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321313 - 07/11/18 07:31 AM

Since I last posted in this thread a friend has picked up my admiration for the cartridge and bought 4 rifles in it via egun.de, 3 of which are now In Sydney.
I on the other hand seem to have developed the bad affliction of African safariitis which has thus far prevented me from buying one off him, despite concluding that either his kliplauf or bockdrilling would be suitable additions to my safe.
Perhaps I secretly pine to be a fat air ace in charge of an entire country’s game reserves as I must admit that I like the look of another of Herman’s allegedly faves, the 9,3x70DWM and think it would be a better option if I keep returning to Africa.
On paper it loses little to the .375/.404 wildcat advocated by the owner of another forum


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2376
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: dotchicco]
      #321323 - 07/11/18 07:39 PM

Dotchicco, I don't think anyone was offended and what you say is quite correct, anytime that cartridge gets mentioned Herman Goering also gets mentioned, particularly in any German article. Norbert Klups mentions HG every time he talks about the 8x75RS and tells you how HG is not responsible for the popularity of the cartridge and that any such talk should be dismissed, but than goes on to tell you about him anyway.

Good to see that you are a collector and shooter of rare and interesting cartridges, that's what this forum is about.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3978
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #321357 - 08/11/18 08:08 PM

Quote:

Dotchicco, I don't think anyone was offended and what you say is quite correct, anytime that cartridge gets mentioned Herman Goering also gets mentioned, particularly in any German article. Norbert Klups mentions HG every time he talks about the 8x75RS and tells you how HG is not responsible for the popularity of the cartridge and that any such talk should be dismissed, but than goes on to tell you about him anyway.

Good to see that you are a collector and shooter of rare and interesting cartridges, that's what this forum is about.

Matt.




Hear Hear - especially the 9.3x64mm!!

And yes......Spot on Matt


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #321360 - 09/11/18 01:51 AM


I have thought of for along time to have a an additional set of 8x75RS barrels for my .450 Nitro. Threads like these promote the idea closer to action.

Another good one would be the 9,3x65 Brenneke Rimmed.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: rigbymauser]
      #321376 - 09/11/18 08:46 AM

And it continues ... if anyone wants to obsess about Goering please take it to the political forum. Not the double rifle forum ...

I borught up "Uncle Hermann" in the opening post onlyu to get it out of the way. Because of a past discussion with a fellow forum member elsewhere. But all irrelevant ...

... Goering was also the Huntmaster of Germany, had some rifles and guns, sometimes there are interesting hunting photos posted on the net. As for the way it was 73 ffffing years ago!!!. And irrespective of the Hollywood regurgitated and often made up propaganda stories created every year, there has not been another Nazi gov't since 1945. Unlike the marxist gov'ts which Hollywood loves, and the cultural marxism which Hollywood also loves. And the every increasing marxism of the UN and its desire for a worldwide "sustainable" marxist world gov't ...

All irrelevant to a double rifle forum. Again to repeat, a 8x75RS is based in the popular and well in use 9.3x74R cartidge in .323 form. And should be quite effective. Probably its defect is a 9.3 can probably do what the 8mm does anyway and better. But I would have a 8x75RS in my gun safe and hunting use, if I had unlimited funds to buy all the toys I would like.

I think a 8x75RS with a bullet in the range of 180 gr to 200 gr would make a neat medium game rifle and also handy and effective for running game. The rimmed equivalent of a 8x68S in a bolt action.

So lets start a new discussion. Why not a 8x68RS? The rimmed equivalent of the 8x68S. We very rarely hear of the 8x68RS?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #321378 - 09/11/18 09:03 AM

I wrote a long reply: eg the 5.56; 7.62x39; the .405 Winchester; the .45/70; the .303 British; 7.62x51; 7.62x54; the 9mm Parabellum etc etc etc - on all the "evil" cartridges because they were used by someone, then deleted it .

Instead to poiint out, how ridiculous this is, and how comments about a cartridge being evil because someone once used it, is so like the antis claiming firearms are evil because some are sometimes used for wrong purposes.

Only fools associate an inanimate object or tool as evil because another similar tool might be used for evil purposes.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (09/11/18 09:08 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #321382 - 09/11/18 09:39 AM

This thread has been killed off now anyway, so Herrman away ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dotchicco
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/16
Posts: 135
Loc: ITALY
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #321395 - 09/11/18 11:34 PM

Quote:



... Goering was also the Huntmaster of Germany, had some rifles and guns, sometimes there are interesting hunting photos posted on the net. As for the way it was 73 ffffing years ago!!!. And irrespective of the Hollywood regurgitated and often made up propaganda stories created every year, there has not been another Nazi gov't since 1945. Unlike the marxist gov'ts which Hollywood loves, and the cultural marxism which Hollywood also loves. And the every increasing marxism of the UN and its desire for a worldwide "sustainable" marxist world gov't ...






I agree 100%.

Doc


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Yochanan
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #321416 - 10/11/18 11:36 AM

Quote:


I think a 8x75RS with a bullet in the range of 180 gr to 200 gr would make a neat medium game rifle and also handy and effective for running game. The rimmed equivalent of a 8x68S in a bolt action.

So lets start a new discussion. Why not a 8x68RS? The rimmed equivalent of the 8x68S. We very rarely hear of the 8x68RS?




I have only seen two Austrian doubles in 8x68s - chambered for the rimless case. I don't like the 8x75RS as I think the neck is kind of short. 8x65RS Brenneke is a very appealing round. an 8x68RS would also be sweet. It would be quite easy to neck up 6,5x68R brass to 8mm...

9,3x65R Brenneke would be a perfect cartridge for those whom wants to use hunt big game. More suitable than the x74r.

I checked some old Blaser catalogues. There used to be a n 8mm Blaser R that seems to have been discontinued

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Yochanan]
      #321549 - 14/11/18 09:53 PM

Some time back I bought a Krieghoff Ulm Primus O/U double rifle in caliber 7X65R. The rifle is still in Germany at my gun maker's. I have never been happy with the choice of caliber, which I consider inappropriate for a double rifle, so earlier this week I asked my gun maker if the barrels could be rebored to 8mm and rechambered to 8X65RS of 8X75RS. He replied that the barrels were large enough, but that he would recommend the 8X65RS. Since he is the one performing the work, I will bow to his recommendation. I already have a drilling with a rifle barrel in that caliber, so I am set up to load for it. I think a double rifle in the rimmed version of the 8X64S may be just the ticket for a Texas hog hunt.





Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dr_Deer
.300 member


Reged: 23/02/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321562 - 15/11/18 06:34 AM

I’d expect the narrow shoulder and body taper of the 8x75RS would mean that the reamer wouldn’t touch the shoulder edge of the 7x65R after rebore. From memory even taking a x75RS reamer to a x57IRS chamber may create a double shouldered monster.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #321570 - 15/11/18 09:45 AM

That is a consideration I had not taken into account. It certainly makes sense. Good point!

It is snowing outside at the moment and the deer are in the rut. Muzzle loading season ends the day after tomorrow and rifle season begins. Daily bag limit: 3, of which only one may be antlered. Only two antlered deer allowed per season. The season ends the first week in January.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321573 - 15/11/18 12:15 PM

Some careful measurements must be taken.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2376
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321579 - 15/11/18 10:46 PM

I just checked both cartridges and the 8x75RS is 0.3mm (0.012") smaller in diameter at the same point at the shoulder of the 7x65R. In other words the 8x75RS reamer will not clean up the chamber of your rifle.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)



Extra information
1 registered and 64 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 27004

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved