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EzineAdministrator
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"The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!"
      #52592 - 16/03/06 07:54 PM

W.J. Jeffrey & Co. .450 #2 Nitro Express



DR archive thread - WJ Jeffrey .450 No. 2 NE with external hammers


W.J. Jeffrey & Co. .450 #2 Nitro Express. 24" double barrel features 5 leaf express sight (100-500 yds.), ramped front bead.

Chopper lump barrels mate to an 8-bore frame.

Secure triple lock action features Purdey double underlugs, Greener cross bolt. Sculpted fences. Top lever unlocking. External hammers on back action locks.




Pistol grip stock is straight grained through the grip, nice figure near butt. Shadowlined cheekpiece and 24 LPI checkering. Steel pistol grip cap. Red rubber recoil pad. Splinter fore end has Anson release, 24 LPI checkering.





Action still shows some color, stock and barrels excellent.





Wonderful double from the days when the sun never set on the British empire. 14 1/2" LOP over pad. 12 1/4 Lbs.

Cal./Gauge .450 #2 Nitro Express
Stock Dimensions 14 1/2" LOP
Barrel(s) 24"
Weight 12 1/4 Lbs.

Price and description above per internet $14,999.99




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Ezine.NitroExpress.com


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Judson
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: Ezine]
      #52714 - 18/03/06 11:29 AM


Nice rifle and great cartridge but from the pictures I would say the barrels were re blued and it appears as if it may of had other refinishing work done. I do not know enough about Jefferies to know if this is reflected in the price. Unless it is the pictures the give away on the barrels is the smeared writing,(polished on a buffing wheel, a no no) and the blued over dings on the rear sight and such.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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JohnTheGreek
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: Judson]
      #52789 - 19/03/06 10:03 PM

I got no problem with a re-finish if done right and I think the writing may just be blurred as a result of the focusing of the photo. Still, I'd have a hard time spending that kinda cash for a hammer gun.

JMHO,

John


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bonanza
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #52792 - 19/03/06 11:05 PM

If you have ever owned a hammer gun, you'd know that there is no disadvantage to them. This rifle may be the best shooting 450No.2 in the world for all we know. I think hammer guns are going to rise in price to match hammerless due to there rarity.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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iwantadouble
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: bonanza]
      #52794 - 19/03/06 11:39 PM

While I am the village idiot when it comes to double rifle values, I thought that the rifle was very well priced when I first saw it. Granted its still just a little out of my current range, it seems to be very realistic and reasonable. I fell in love with it the first time I saw it, and the more I look at it, the more I love it; neat caliber, made by a firm who's name appeals to me, and best of all it has exposed hammers. Maybe I can generate enough funds before it sells to give it a new home, but other expenses at present are making it a wishful thought at best.

As far as the blurriness of it goes, I would tend to say thats more to do with the level of JPEG compression used in the photo than focus or reblacking with a buffing wheel polish job under it. If you look at the tang to the wrist of the stock picture you will see how blurry that is, along with the level of artifacts present in those pictures. Cabela's cranked it down to crappy quality to conserve bandwidth, pure and simple. Not to say the possibility of a reblack isn't present, just that if it is, more than likely the job was a good job that is hidden under a low quality picture.

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500 is a nice round number, either followed by "Nitro Express" or by "cubic inch displacement".


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: iwantadouble]
      #52796 - 20/03/06 12:12 AM

I just looked at the photos at full resolution on Cabelas website. If the barrels are re-blacked it looks like it was done right. Of course it's impossible to tell from photos, but take a good look at the full-res photo of the top of the action: HERE

On the left barrel you can see the "W" and part of the "J" in the inscription. Those letters look good and crisp. Also, the punch work around the breech of the barrels is crisp. I can see longitudinal marks on the barrels from when they were struck. I don't think that would be present if they were buffed with a wheel. The longitudinal marks on the barrel are clearly visible in this photo also: HERE

Just my $0.02 worth, which might be over priced at that!

iwantadouble, if you like that rifle, why not make them an offer? The double rifle market is a moving target. It's like chasing a rabbit and always just out of reach. If you don't lunge at the quarry you stay behind. That's been my experience, anyway.

Curl


--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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iwantadouble
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: CptCurl]
      #52797 - 20/03/06 12:24 AM

I do not foresee them dropping roughly $6,000 off the price so I could put it into my hands currently. If they hold if for a while, maybe as my reserved funds increase and their love for the rifle decreases from shelf space being taken up. That is why.

I agree, the time to buy is now, and I've been saving my pennies, and quarters, and dollars, ect. for a decent usable English double, and I am getting close to hammergun territory in terms of my funds, but that does look too good to me for them to take $9,000 on, along with being a Nitro hammergun in one of the .450's on top of it all. I would be insulting them with the best offer I could make on it presently.

Just my $0.02.

--------------------
500 is a nice round number, either followed by "Nitro Express" or by "cubic inch displacement".


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500Nitro
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: Judson]
      #52804 - 20/03/06 02:29 AM


Judson

Re "refinishing work done" I think you are applying
Winchester and Colt Collectors criteria (ie Originality)
to English guns and the English never worked that way.

A lot of english Shotguns and Rifles, go back for a "clean up"
at the end of each season and at the start of the next season it
all looks new again - and in most cases you couldn't tell.
This is especially so with Shotguns.

IMHO, A double rifle that has been used that hasn't been
looked at, serviced etc is a worry to me as you generally
don't know what you'll find.

500 Nitro


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BlainSmipy
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: iwantadouble]
      #52807 - 20/03/06 03:16 AM

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banzaibird
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #52813 - 20/03/06 05:41 AM

Colorado,

Ask and yee shall receive. The "Liberty II" fits the bill. It is a KBI gun that is made in Turkey. Same area as the CZ's. It may be a Huglu as well. This was the action I eluded to on the building thread. The one that we made is built on the 12 ga and is a 50-140 Sharps. The guy who actually owns the rifle whom I helped wanted a new made exposed hammer. The gun is regulated for BP. However we fired quite a bit of smokeles loads in it simply to see how it would hold up. So far it's been flawless. I've been told that ADCO is importing the same or similar gun with no external name markings. I'm not sure as I haven't seen one.

Now as this is the first one I've seen built on this action please don't take it as gospel that it will work great for all calibers. I can say that this particular one is closing in on 400 rounds through it with no problems.

Bill

P.S.- I expect delivery of the new camera this week so perhaps i can finally add some pics to my posts.

Edited by banzaibird (20/03/06 05:48 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: iwantadouble]
      #52830 - 20/03/06 10:42 AM

In reply to:

As far as the blurriness of it goes, I would tend to say thats more to do with the level of JPEG compression used in the photo than focus or reblacking with a buffing wheel polish job under it.




The photos displayed here are about 1/5 to 1/10 the size of the originals so yes look at the Cabela's site if you want to see the full size and resolution photos.

This isn't an advertisement for Cabela's but merely a record of the different double rifles on sale at the moment. Overtime as the doubles sell they are lost from view so this is an archive for them. I don't think any of the retailers will get upset from the use of their photos seeing they will make some sales from them being displayed here.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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400NitroExpress
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: CptCurl]
      #52831 - 20/03/06 11:30 AM

Probably re-blacked, but I see no evidence of the use of a polishing wheel. Like Curl said, the barrel striking is still evident. Lettering is crisp.

Aggravating to see a nice double that some hack has turned loose a polishing wheel on. Trashes 'em.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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BlainSmipy
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: banzaibird]
      #52832 - 20/03/06 11:33 AM

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Judson
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: 500Nitro]
      #52833 - 20/03/06 12:03 PM


From the close ups I would say the rifle was done right and a gun re-ferbished by the maker is not a draw back! However many of these guns are re-done by hacks and the quality of the work is not on a par with the origional maker. All I am saying is check it out as a good gun is an investment a re worked hack job is a liability and a loss. These guns when re done need the care of the creator and it is sad that many of these guns are referbished by people who have no consept of what they are dealing with or care. These guns are works of art and should be looked after as such. When buying one check it out and be careful!!!!

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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Judson
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: Ezine]
      #52834 - 20/03/06 12:11 PM

Oh bye the way though I may not go along with it on my first hunt in Africa I was told why the sun never sets on the British Empire. I was told that God would never, never trust an Englishman in the dark!!!! Now several of my friends and customers are English men so do not think that that is my perspective but I thought it was a quant comment from the camp fire in Africa.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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Marrakai
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: Judson]
      #52836 - 20/03/06 12:37 PM

Guys:
I am a tiny bit suspicious of the .450 hammer-gun because of the longitudinal marks still visible from striking-up the barrels. That kind of lazy finish is not characteristic of Jeffery rifles! All nitro Jeffery rifles that I have examined, and I have seen a few!, were very well finished indeed. At the time, competition for market share amongst the top British rifle-builders (Jeffery, Westley-Richards, and the London firms) was very high according to published accounts, and I simply can't imagine a finish as rough as that being turned out on an engraved nitro gun. Admittedly the close-up photography will accentuate any imperfections, but to my mind that finish is not what I would expect.


Hey colorado, I simply can't agree with this!
In reply to:

There is NO slow down between hammerless and hammer gun cocking



I own several of either, in both rifles and shotguns, and simply can't imagine how you arrive at that opinion. A thousand gun-makers and their several million customers world-wide are all wrong? There is a very good reason why the entire world abandoned the hammer-gun a hundred years ago, despite the fact that they were the most elegant configuration ever designed, manifestly the safest, and the absolute pinnacle of the gunmakers' art: they were too slow!!


--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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BlainSmipy
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: Marrakai]
      #52849 - 20/03/06 03:37 PM

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JohnTheGreek
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: bonanza]
      #52857 - 20/03/06 04:52 PM

bonanze,

I didn't say I wouldn't own a hammer gun did I ?!?! I simply said that I would have a tough time spending that kind of cash for one because, from a re-sale perspective, they will always sell for less than a hammerless. Why? Because they are inevitably slower! There is NO avoiding it since there is an extra motion necessary to cock the hammers. I'm not saying I don't love the looks and heritage of this rifle but the only reason this rifle is $15K is because Cabelas would be selling a comparable hammerless for 20+.

JMHO,

John


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sbs470
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #52865 - 20/03/06 11:31 PM

The sun shall never set on the British Enpire

Never a truer statement !

SIMPLY, BECAUSE GOD DONT TRUST THE BASTARDS IN THE DARK

and wilst we are on the subject
Thje Welsh pray on their knees on Sundays and on their neighbours the rest of the week
I'm part Welsh
sbs470


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400NitroExpress
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: Marrakai]
      #52879 - 21/03/06 06:17 AM

Marrakai:

That kind of finish IS characteristic of Jeffery rifles - and most other pre-war British rifles as well. I've seen quite a few myself. On original pre-war rifles, the barrel striking is usually faintly visible through the blacking under a bright light, such as a camera flash. There's nothing "rough" or "lazy" about the finish in the photo. Generally, with a few exceptions, that's the way it was done in the pre-war years. Recent, incorrect refinishes are often easy to spot due to the excessive polishing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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4seventy
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #52900 - 21/03/06 10:43 AM

I'm no expert on pre war barrel striking but.......
I find it interesting that "skilled" workers would leave such deep scoring in the finished barrel surface.
It doesn't need bright lighting or flash photography to see it either, it stands out like a third ball on a greyhound!
Also, a flash was not used to create those photos IMO.
400, go to Curls link or the original at Cabelas, take a look at the "T" in "ST" in the 13 KING ST address in the photo showing the folding sights, and magnify it.
It has a score in it big enough to have been made by a D9 Cat rather than a barrel file!

Truth is I think the photos may be making it look a little rougher than it really is.
Photos of rifles can be a little deceiving at times.



Edited by 4seventy (21/03/06 01:22 PM)


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Dutch44
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: Ezine]
      #52903 - 21/03/06 11:10 AM

For what it is worth, I have two Rigby hammer underlever rifles. One, a 450 3 1/4 cordite the other a 450-400 BPE in nicer shape than the one pictured above. The nitro was 5k less(in trade)than the above and the BPE was $7500 less than above. Send me a private e-mail as I have a friend with an Army-Navy 450 3 1/4 hammerless if you're interested and for less money. Dutch


Hot lead...Hot steel...Hot damn!


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400NitroExpress
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: 4seventy]
      #52924 - 21/03/06 04:11 PM

Alan:

Yeah, I see what you're looking at, but I think it's the blown up, hi-res photo and whatever artificial light was used. I have one that would look just like that if photographed from the same angle, in the same way, and the barrel finish on it is beautiful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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banzaibird
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #52946 - 21/03/06 10:14 PM

Well lets experiment. Take the pics and post them. Ok it is a ploy to see pics of your gun but it's a pretty convincing one.

Bill


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JohnTheGreek
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Re: "The Sun shall never set on the British Empire!" [Re: banzaibird]
      #63397 - 03/10/06 05:38 AM

Note:

I have spoken to Cabelas about this rifle and they are lowering the posted price. Currently the weapon is at $15K but I am told it will be $13K in the next couple of days. Now for the bad news...they are lowering the price for two reasons. 1) There is a crack running across the side of the comb starting at the nose and going through the dark area on the right hand side of the stock. 2) The rifle is apparently off face.

Still, at 13K that is a better starting point for bargaining than 15K and I suspect if someone wanted to get the work done right they could still have a damn nice rifle for a reasonable price.

JMHO,

John

p.s. It's still a damn hammer-gun!


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