Forums.NitroExpress.com

Well, smicha6551, you have been given both sides of this issue, and I’m not sure you are going to like either of them 100 %!

Unlike Steve (Shakari) I can live with the de-cocking system of the Krieghoff double rifle, but like him I prefer the old safety system. What I can’t abide is the Krieghoff rifle it’s self. It doesn’t fit me, and IMO, handles like a well-made fence post, but not much like a well-made double rifle!

I do think the de-cocking system of the Krieghoff rifle is very safe, and works similar to an exposed hammer double rifle, that is only cocked when you are ready to shoot, not carried that way. It is true that the hammerless double rifle of conventional design, if carried loaded, depends on a safety to avoid an accidental discharge. The rifle looks safe because you don’t see the hammers cocked, because they are hidden within the action, but the little safety button is all that keeps the rifle from firing if a trigger is touched.

The Krieghoff system is far better than the Blazer system, which most think is the same, but it isn’t. The Blazer is automatically placed on DE-COCK every time the rifle is broken open to re-load. This is not the case with the Krieghoff, as it re-cocks the rifle on breaking open for a re-load, so the rifle is ready for the next two shot, without having the manually re-cocking the rifle. The Blazer is like having an automatic safety that can’t be disengaged, and must be remembered each time the rifle is broken open to re-load. Forget it, and you get run down by a big Buffalo, while pulling desperately on a trigger!

Next is the use of rimless, and/or belted rimless cartridges in a double rifle. Almost any maker will chamber these in their double rifles on request, and a few are made for the off the shelf makers as regular stock. First it is not the best idea anyone ever had, and was done first because the availability of the classic NE flanged rounds got scarce, and the 458 Win Mag had vied to take the place of them in bolt rifles, and was the only regular supply of large cartridge available. 400 Nitro Express gave you the reasons this type of cartridge is not the best choice for a double rifle, and he is 100 % correct in his opinion. There is one other reason the 458 Win Mag is not the best idea, in MY opinion. That has two sides! One is the fact that the 458 Win Mag is a very high-pressure cartridge, and the other is, that the 458 Win Mag had some issues of it’s own, even in bolt rifles. Some will tell you this is not the case, and they are right today, but they also deny the fact that the 458 win Mag ever had issues. That is a little like the Prez of Iran denying the holocaust took place, and is a little like sticking one’s head in the sand so the lions can’t see them. The 458 Win Mag had some very serious malfunctions in the field back in the 50s, and early 60s. Some that could have gotten some people killed. Because of the powders that were available in the early days of the 458 win Mag’s existence, the powder was compressed, and over a short time would become caked, and cause either misfires, or hang fires, neither of which are desirable when standing a charge of a serious BITE-BACK! Winchester had the 375 H&H length action in their Mod 70, and all that was needed was to open the 375 case up to 458. There would have never been a problem, even with the powders of that day, if they had. What they would have had would have been the 458 LOTT, what the 458 Win Mag should have been in the first place. It would have worked fine in the mod 70, and would have made a real impression on the PHs of Africa, and I think would still be the darling of African PHs. That fact is made by the number of PHs today who use the 458 LOTT.

JPK has used the 458 Win Mag in his very fine double rifle without a problem so far. JPK,however, is smart enough to do a lot of shooting with that rifle, and experiment with a lot of hand loads to make sure they work flawlessly in his rifle. I understand his love for his rifle, because it hasn’t failed him in any way, and has given him some fine trophies in Africa, without a hick-cough! Like he says if his rifle screws up, all he will do is re-chamber it to 450NE 3 ¼” , and go on about his business. If not his rifle shoots fine the way it is. IOM, his experience is a fluke, and not one I’d want to spend $15K hoping I’d get the same fluke! I told JPK when he bought his rifle, if it had been me, I would not have even taken the rifle home till it had been re-chambered to 450NE 3 ¼”, or 450NE No 2. and if needed, re-regulated. As 400 says there is a reason 458 Win Mag double rifle are thousands less that a classically chambered double of the same quality. The belted rimless, high-pressure cartridge is the reason. I’m glad, however JPK had the luck he had with his rifle, but I don’t think his luck is representative of so chambered double rifles, much of the time.

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"