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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: Chasseur]
      #61489 - 21/08/06 06:50 AM

Chasseur,

Ah, so we have other fingers in the pie.

At least that's not one of the guns I want - although it is very nice indeed.

Chasseur - Curl's going to think we are trying to move him on a bit quicker !!!

500 Nitro

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: CptCurl]
      #61491 - 21/08/06 07:32 AM

Does any company make rifles based on the screw grip action today?

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 500grains]
      #61494 - 21/08/06 08:26 AM

Yes, A & S Famars offers the doll's head extension with screw grip third fastener as an option. It's expensive. Late English Rigby boxlock DRs were screw grips as well as the current W. J. Jeffery boxlocks that Paul Roberts (who formerly owned Rigby) is building now. In both cases the actions are from A & S. Others may be building screw grips, as A & S sells a number of actions to the trade annually.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #61540 - 22/08/06 08:27 AM

How does the Webley Long Bar fit into all of this?

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #61541 - 22/08/06 09:19 AM

What would an A&S screw grip action rifle, plain Jane, in .470 NE cost? Any guess?

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bwana600nitro
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Reged: 13/02/06
Posts: 41
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 500grains]
      #61543 - 22/08/06 10:25 AM

there plain jane African Express was about 28,000- to 30,000 last time I checked.

bwana600nitro

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"The big ones look big" Jack O'Conner

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 500grains]
      #61546 - 22/08/06 10:44 AM

The last time I looked at a price list, base price was $34,000.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #66474 - 07/12/06 01:53 AM

Quote:


In double gun nomenclature, a "screw grip" is a fastener that operates on the interrupted thread principle and is activated by a lever. Sorta like a bayonet mount camera lens, a partial turn of the lever fastens, and a partial turn in the opposite direction unfastens - hence the term "screw grip". It was commonly used as a primary bolting system, a fore-end attachment system, and a third fastener system. The Jones UL Screw Grip Action patent of 1859 uses a screw grip to engage the underlugs. The fore-end fastener you referred to is the Screw Grip Fore-end Fastener. This type was patented by a workman of Wilkinson's (I seem to remember his name as Harvey) in 1866 and was, thus, the property of Wilkinson Sword Co. The T. W. Webley & T. Brain Screw Grip Top Fastener Patent of 1882 is a third fastener on a dolls head extension, and was obviously a direct crib on the Wilkinson patent.

Most of the Webley built screw grip double rifles also use the screw grip fore-end fastener.
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Was reading this older thread and was curious what the screw grip fore end fastener looked like. Pictures would be great but a description would be fine as well.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: bulldog563]
      #66481 - 07/12/06 02:48 AM



Here's a pic of a screw grip forend fastener on a Webley PHV-1.



Here's one on a Thomas Horsley.



And here's one on a Woodward.



Don't seem to have a photo handy showing the latch in its open position.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #66507 - 07/12/06 12:30 PM

Quote:

In double gun nomenclature, a "screw grip" is a fastener that operates on the interrupted thread principle and is activated by a lever. Sorta like a bayonet mount camera lens, a partial turn of the lever fastens, and a partial turn in the opposite direction unfastens



Actually, a bayonet camera lens mount is not in any way like a screw grip fastener.
A bayonet lens mount does not use an interrupted thread system for its attachment to the camera body.
A bayonet mount and an interrupted thread are completely different systems.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 4seventy]
      #66523 - 07/12/06 04:03 PM

Well Alan, I already knew that you didn't know what the term screw-grip means. Seems you don't know much about SLR cameras either.

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4seventy
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #66526 - 07/12/06 05:52 PM

400,

Take a real good look at the lugs on your SLR bayonet lens mounts and then come back and let me know what you find.

Perhaps a little help is needed so you know what to look for.
To convince me that the bayonet lens system is actually an interrupted thread you'll need to find an inclined plane on the engaging surfaces of the lugs.
Nikon and Pentax SLR bayonet mounts I own/have owned, have the engaging surfaces square to the lens axis, meaning that there is NO inclined plane and therefore no thread system used.

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 4seventy]
      #66529 - 07/12/06 06:49 PM

I don't need to convince you of anything, Alan.

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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4seventy
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #66530 - 07/12/06 07:13 PM

Thats ok


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: 4seventy]
      #66572 - 08/12/06 10:17 AM

I don't mean to butt in here, but it seems to me that Alan's point is that the bayonet camera mount isn't a screw. It does consist of interrupted lugs, but the lugs aren't the remnants of threads of a screw.

I'm no engineer, but a screw is an inclined plane wrapped around a cylinder, and it tightens (or loosens) the parts as it turns. The Webley screw grip (A&W C) clearly performs this function. You can see the screw clearly from the front of the breech, looking into the recess for the doll's head rib extension. I don't think the bayonet mount of a camera lens does anything of the sort.

What about it, guys? Is this the distinction?

Best,
Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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4seventy
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Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: CptCurl]
      #66575 - 08/12/06 11:33 AM

Curl,
Yes, that was my point exactly.
At first glance the bayonet mount looks similar to an iterrupted thread but close examination will indeed show otherwise.
The interrupted thread system is well suited to joining two surfaces which will be required to endure high loading forces.
Some take down bolt action rifles use the interrupted thread system to secure the barrel to the receiver and yes indeed, the A&WC Webley double rifle action uses an interrupted thread as part of its its third bite system.
A bayonet mount system would not be suitable for either of those tasks.

Both the interrupted thread system and the bayonet lens mount system draw two surfaces or flanges together as the lugs are fitted and rotated.
They both start off with a clearance (existing between the faces) which is taken up as the rotation is completed.
The BIG difference is that the interrupted thread system draws the two surfaces together by using the helix on the flank of the thread and achieves a solid lock up which has taken up all the clearance.

On the other hand the bayonet mount has no helix and relies on spring pressure to hold the two surfaces/flanges together.
The clearance has been taken up by spring pressure alone and any force applied to the parts involved which exceed this mild spring pressure will easily create movement at the clearance in the joint.

The bayonet lens mount on SLR cameras is not required to endure high loadings.
It is meant to provide fast changing of lens types with precision and ease.
This it does extremely well.

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BigFiveJack
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Reged: 25/12/05
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Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...
Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: Marrakai]
      #79421 - 26/05/07 03:45 PM

To Tony Marrakai or anyone else who can assist,

Please e-mail a pic to me, [advenjack@yahoo.com]

and post it here too, of a view straight at the

breach face of a PHV-1 with the bbls off. I'd like

to see this compared to what the threaded spindal
looks like in the A&WC Webley. Thank you

very much. I've been so busy at home and at work

for weeks on end now that I've have nearly zero forum

time, no fun at all!

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Screw grip and PHV1 [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #79428 - 26/05/07 10:08 PM

Great thread!!

Can one assume that theoretically a dolls head screw grip 3rd fastener would be inherently stronger engagement while also assuring correct alignment or is it just different??

I am no engineer but it sounds like a better design--

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