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I think one of those percussion model muzzle loaders in .58 will be on the purchase list as well.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Look at the locks on this real vintage Howdah pistol. How the action curves downwards allowing the proper pistol grip with decent trigger pull length.

Compare it to the Pedersolis where the triggers and guard are more on a horizontal plane with another horizontal plane behind the guard till the grip.

This real vintage Howdah pistol, already had the trigger guard in the curve of the grip.

It would be good to handle both at the same time and see how they feel differently.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (17/03/24 06:15 PM)

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Although anything over the 50/500 caliber is regulated as "destructive device" for handguns here in the USA, if money wasn't a problem I'd go forward with a 20bore or 16bore using 70 or more grains Black or a nitro energy equivalent.
Excessive velocity will only give the hunter greater range. That's not needed for this kind of gun.

There are some handsome hammerless designs - but I'd want small curved back action or island locks with hammers.

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A 16-bore hammer side by side shotgun could provide a cheap donor source for a smoothbore Howdah pistol.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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A 16-bore hammer side by side shotgun could provide a cheap donor source for a smoothbore Howdah pistol

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Finally we have arrived at my own personal concept of a modern howdah pistol build, so its time to add my two cents worth. Except mine would definitely need rifling!

Several years ago I went down this rabbit-hole with a view to making a version of the SxS 16-bore hammergun that could be used in our Big Game Rifle competition for the Howdah Pistol event.
A couple of important pre-requisites were NO TOP-LEVER, and percussion-style fences. The problem with using a vintage 12-bore hammer-gun as a donor is that back-action locks cannot be contoured down into the pistol grip, as mentioned above: they are all too straight.
Unfortunately as the SxS shotgun evolved, the top-lever was universally adopted BEFORE the back-action lock was replaced by the bar-action lock, so finding a donor hammer-gun that had bar-action locks with either a Jones underlever or a side-lever was like looking for rocking-horse sh!t!

Anyway, long story short, I finally found one and made the acquisition. According to my gunsmith, I can do everything required except shortening the barrels. That requires changing the firearm class from A (shotgun) to H (handgun) in the NT, and this can only be done legally by a licenced armourer or gunsmith. Difficulties are predicted if I want it to remain an antique (pre-1900 manufactured action) as our Firearms Act technically allows. ...and I do!

The next problem is finding a donor barrel that I could get two short rifled 16-bore sleeves out of. New or vintage, don't really care, but the rifling would need to be "pukka", meaning wide grooves and relatively tall, narrow lands for round-ball, with a twist-rate in the order of 30 to 60 inches. In Australia! More rocking-horse sh!t needing to be sought!

Anyway, the donor hardware is in my gunsafe, so Step 1 is done. I have had the brass 16-bore cases forever, but not yet cut to 2 inches for the 16-bore short cartridge (to further circumvent Police accusations of a cut-down shotgun).
Anyway, this is already further than I manage to get on most of my conceptual projects!

Rest assured I'll post progress here if this project ever bubbles to the surface!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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I think "competition" is being used to accept lessor standards Perhaps we should take "competition" out of the discussion.

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Nope. Because that is what Marrakai and I are talking about


No one is shooting a tiger off an elephant's back anymore.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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But at last:

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A 16-bore hammer side by side shotgun could provide a cheap donor source for a smoothbore Howdah pistol

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Finally we have arrived at my own personal concept of a modern howdah pistol build, so its time to add my two cents worth. Except mine would definitely need rifling!

Several years ago I went down this rabbit-hole with a view to making a version of the SxS 16-bore hammergun that could be used in our Big Game Rifle competition for the Howdah Pistol event.
A couple of important pre-requisites were NO TOP-LEVER, and percussion-style fences. The problem with using a vintage 12-bore hammer-gun as a donor is that back-action locks cannot be contoured down into the pistol grip, as mentioned above: they are all too straight.
Unfortunately as the SxS shotgun evolved, the top-lever was universally adopted BEFORE the back-action lock was replaced by the bar-action lock, so finding a donor hammer-gun that had bar-action locks with either a Jones underlever or a side-lever was like looking for rocking-horse sh!t!

Anyway, long story short, I finally found one and made the acquisition. According to my gunsmith, I can do everything required except shortening the barrels. That requires changing the firearm class from A (shotgun) to H (handgun) in the NT, and this can only be done legally by a licenced armourer or gunsmith. Difficulties are predicted if I want it to remain an antique (pre-1900 manufactured action) as our Firearms Act technically allows. ...and I do!

The next problem is finding a donor barrel that I could get two short rifled 16-bore sleeves out of. New or vintage, don't really care, but the rifling would need to be "pukka", meaning wide grooves and relatively tall, narrow lands for round-ball, with a twist-rate in the order of 30 to 60 inches. In Australia! More rocking-horse sh!t needing to be sought!

Anyway, the donor hardware is in my gunsafe, so Step 1 is done.


I have had the brass 16-bore cases forever, but not yet cut to 2 inches for the 16-bore short cartridge (to further circumvent Police accusations of a cut-down shotgun).
Anyway, this is already further than I manage to get on most of my conceptual projects!

Rest assured I'll post progress here if this project ever bubbles to the surface!

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Marrakais, so you have both the hens teeth 16-bore action and the two 16-bore rifled barrels to use. Wow.

Can you post photos of the 16-bore shotgun and action please? Thanks.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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I "get" that there are better guns available today for whatever the Howdah can do. Hell there are better guns available for what a Double Rifle can do;

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Im not sure there are any other options. My choice is to continue the search for an original, and enjoy the Pedersoli ML and 45/410 for what they are...

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Yes. But there are also other optionz, all discussed probably several times.

Enjoy your existing Pedersolis. Start a new thread, show photos and maybe some videos of shooting them.

How well do they regulate? How accurate? At whatever range suitable.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Sorry John, you misunderstand, I only have the 12-bore side-lever bar-action hammergun with percussion fences and damascus barrels,
ready to accept 10-inch 16-bore rifled inserts. If I already had the inserts, or the donor barrel from which to make them,
this project would definitely have moved from the back-burner to the front!

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Thanks. A problem with a 12-bore as the base is the size of it. But if it works. And 16-bore in a 12, why not.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Bar-action hammergun here. Easy to make a pistol-grip stock curving downwards behind the trigger-guard.

Back-action hammergun here. Virtually impossible to make a properly proportioned pistol grip behind those locks, and still reach the triggers with your finger!

So while a vintage original probably has to be back-actioned (with curved lock-plates) to look the part, a modern conversion of a hammer shotgun pretty-much cannot be back-actioned.

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Thanks for that. A dream of mine has always been to create a Nitro-Wiki with members creating posts, comments, illustrations and images, explaining terms and concepts, brands, techniques. Thought about it 18years ago, one can't proceed too quickly ...

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The top lever on a Howdah pistol. Yes maybe that's acreadin for the "saw grip"? I've never shot a sawn off shotgun with a pistol grip. So don't know how much a top lever might be a problem?

I agree aside or bottom lever is so much more desirable.



BTW does anyone know anyone with a Pedersoli Howdah in Australia? Especially the breech loading versions. It would be great to handle one first, say at the International BG, BB Shoot in Darwin later in the year.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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