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85lc
.375 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information
#376760 - 17/05/23 02:59 AM

In another post (A Jeffery Double in 600 NE), we discussed the possibility that the Jeffery daybook may be available, and that Jeffery owners could get information about their Jeffery guns (rifles & shotguns).

The Jeffery daybooks are owned by the Friedkin Group fo Houston, TX. I reached out to The Friedkin Group to find out if we could get access to the daybooks. I agreed to coordinate the requests. The Friedkin Group said they would provide the information (see email exchange below)

If you want to find information about your Jeffery, please send me your name, email address, serial number, model, and caliber. I will compile a list and send that to the Jeffery office at The Friedkin Group. Please send your information by June 1, 2023.

When we get information back, I will ask that you reimburse me what I had to pay The Friedkin Group.

What I wrote to The Friedkin Group:

"Years ago, Thomas Friedkin purchased W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks). These daybooks record information about the rifles and shotguns sold by the W.J. Jeffery.

"After Thomas Friedkin died in 2017, these daybooks were passed on to the Friedkin Group.

"A number of people I know have guns sold by W.J. Jeffery and would like to get information about these guns that is contained in the W.J. Jeffery's daybooks.

"Is it possible to get this information?

"If it is possible to get this information, I can send a list of each gun including serial number and would appreciate a photostat of that part of the daybook for those guns.

"If that is acceptable, please let me know what that would cost."

--------------------
RB

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ChrisCoade
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#376764 - 17/05/23 04:26 AM

Rusty Knight (RIP 2022) & Mark Cash (RIP 2019) and R Nolan Keiler did a lot of research on Jeffery N.E. Double Rifles. They identified that a number of the Jeffery N.E. Double Rifles (and A. Hollis N.E.Double Rifles) were actually made by the gunmaker Daniel Leonard & Sons of Birmingham.
Those Leonard-made N.E. Double Rifles have a 3 or 4 digit Makers Number stamped on the under-rib just forward of the fore-end lug & that same Makers Number also stamped on the Action underneath the bottom action plate. If it was a "finished" gun then the Makers Number was also stamped in ink on the interior of the Stock where it joins the action and also stamped in ink under the forearm metal.
Chris

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: ChrisCoade]
#376769 - 17/05/23 08:34 AM

From what I have read, Jeffery was more of a gun seller than a gun maker. I understood that Jeffery only employed a few gunsmiths.

I have two Jeffery "Farquharsons" action rifles. I understand that Jeffery (as well as Holland, WRA, Lancaster, and most others) bought either the action, barreled action, or complete rifles from either Francotte of another Belgium gunmaker.

I thought most of Jeffery's double rifles were made by Webley.

It is like finding out that your Plymouth Road Runner was actually made by another company that also made Malibus for Chevy.

--------------------
RB

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ChrisCoade
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#376773 - 17/05/23 04:38 PM

One of the interesting points that your access to the Jeffery "daybooks"(workbooks) will identify is who actually made their Jeffery N.E. Double Rifles. The Rusty Knight & Mark Cash & R. Nolan Keiler research showed that Daniel Leonard & Sons made a significant number of the W.J. Jeffery (& A.Hollis)
N.E. Double Rifles. A number of good Birmingham gunmakers made guns "For the Trade" for Gun Retailers in London or overseas either "In the White" or as "Finished Guns".

Chris C

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: ChrisCoade]
#376776 - 17/05/23 07:08 PM

Quote:

One of the interesting points that your access to the Jeffery "daybooks"(workbooks) will identify is who actually made their Jeffery N.E. Double Rifles. The Rusty Knight & Mark Cash & R. Nolan Keiler research showed that Daniel Leonard & Sons made a significant number of the W.J. Jeffery (& A.Hollis)
N.E. Double Rifles. A number of good Birmingham gunmakers made guns "For the Trade" for Gun Retailers in London or overseas either "In the White" or as "Finished Guns".

Chris C

A lot of the big name brands rebranded firearms made by other makers.

A reason I regarded some of the ridiculous criticism of modern Rigby as hypocritical. Just the same today as in the past. Same rebranded, some built in house. Many fine examples built in house. All function as they should.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#376777 - 17/05/23 07:53 PM

Well done RB.

I'm interested as I posted in information on my "Zabardast" (my name for it only), .450 no.2 Nitro Express W.J. Jeffery. I assume the model is a boxlock? I'll send you details.

Any idea of the cost? $50 or more/less would be fine. I couldn't afford hundreds of dollars though and neither is it worth it. Sorry to complicate it but I can't afford blank cheques at the moment. $$$ are tight.

Thanks for organising this for members. Hopefully more
makes use of this opportunity.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DoubleD
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#376780 - 18/05/23 01:07 AM

Yes I would like some sort of Idea cost also, before I ask.

Also I would like sort of Idea what information will be returned.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#376786 - 18/05/23 02:20 AM

My initial thought was to get a spread sheet and send it to The Franklin Group and see what they say about cost.

I figured that it would be $100 which is what I paid for Lancaster info. I don't know what condition and how searchable the records are which impacts costs. My thoughts are that the more records requested, the cost should be less.

However, let me ask about cost. I will get back with you.

--------------------
RB

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HistoricBore
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#376788 - 18/05/23 03:35 AM

Similarly, I would like to know some more about my W. Jeffery 12 bore hammer gun, serial number 252xx. Its Proof marks indicate that it was made in Birmingham between 1904 and 1925.

But it is only the "Farmers' Gun" retailing for £3-0-0, totally plain. Proof marks show that it is actually a 13 bore, and weighs just over 7 pounds with 30" barrels. So I don't want to spend a lot for such a simple gun.

HB

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85lc
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: HistoricBore]
#376798 - 18/05/23 07:40 AM

Guys,

The Franklin Group said that they will not charge us for theinformation. They pointed out that what they have is limited but would be glad to look up the information for us.

That is really nice for them to do that.

Perhaps instead of paying, you could make a donation to NitroForum which John has worked tireless to run.

I will let you know what is needed.

--------------------
RB

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3DogMike
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#376801 - 18/05/23 11:10 AM

Just a quick addition to this very nice work that RB/85lc has contributed.

My dealings in past years with the Friedkin Group executive assistant that relayed the info for my Jeffery rifles was entirely positive, save the rather lengthy time windows involved.

What can be expected, based upon my experience, is a confirmation email with the relevant info that was found as well as a digital photo of the daybook page with the rifle/gun serial number.

No fancy Letter of Provenience as provided (at a cost) by some of the famed Brit makers, but very nice none the less and quite nice of them to do this at no charge.

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
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A10ACN
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 3DogMike]
#376804 - 18/05/23 12:15 PM

I’m interested. Currently out of town. I’ll get the serial numbers when I return.

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85lc
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: A10ACN]
#376805 - 18/05/23 12:40 PM

Mike,
I think your comments are exactly right. Everyone at TFG has been very positive, a really nice group of people. BTW, my contact at TFG is "Sharpshooter". Sounds like a gun guy to me.

--------------------
RB

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85lc
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: HistoricBore]
#377154 - 04/06/23 06:08 AM

Quote:

Similarly, I would like to know some more about my W. Jeffery 12 bore hammer gun, serial number 252xx. Its Proof marks indicate that it was made in Birmingham between 1904 and 1925.

But it is only the "Farmers' Gun" retailing for £3-0-0, totally plain. Proof marks show that it is actually a 13 bore, and weighs just over 7 pounds with 30" barrels. So I don't want to spend a lot for such a simple gun.

HB

HB, DD, Nitro, & others

ZERO COST

Send me the serial # and basic info including your contact info so I can send to you what information is available.

I have held off sending the list becauae I have not heard bak for a couple of people. will send the spread sheet I complied to TFG next Monday (6/12)

Thanks

--------------------
RB

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#377163 - 04/06/23 04:27 PM

Apologies. I thought about it on the evening here of the 1st, then again last night. I hope you had delayed. Thanks.

I will pm you the information, also email it.,

I'll see if I can email this thread to all posting interest to get the full list for your enquiry.

Thanks very much.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (04/06/23 04:29 PM)

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#377184 - 06/06/23 03:43 PM

Not sure if it's too late for anyone not seei g this by yesterday.

I pmed my info. But didn't get time to email everyone.

Good opportunity organised by 85lc.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DoubleD
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#377197 - 07/06/23 11:56 PM

Information on a sporting rifle Jeffery's built on a Francotte style Martini Action in 577 Snider sent to Roy via Private message.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Marrakai
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#377201 - 08/06/23 09:50 AM

Yeah, I missed the cutoff too!
My cousin sailed in from SE Asia a week or so back, along with his son Jack (Strick) and partner Fran as mentioned in another thread recently, and I got distracted!
Meanwhile...
A cute little Jeffery 6.5 Mannlicher sporter on a Steyr action has been in my employ for some 15 years or more, and its time I found out a bit more about it. As I said to Roy, if the sale register was still extant I would have attempted to chase up the provenance years ago!

How many Jeffery firearms did we end up with in this RFI?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: Marrakai]
#377202 - 08/06/23 04:04 PM

Quote:

My cousin sailed in from SE Asia a week or so back, along with his son Jack (Strick) and partner Fran as mentioned in another thread recently, and I got distracted!

Are we going to see a Marrakai in a future Strick video?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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85lc
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#377207 - 09/06/23 02:51 AM

I have 13 guns on the list which is nice. I am waiting on a friend who is traveling to send me the serial numbers of his two rifles. I should have those this weekend and will send the list to TFG then.
It will be interesting to see what records exist.

--------------------
RB

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#377208 - 09/06/23 03:05 AM

Quote:

I have 13 guns on the list which is nice. I am waiting on a friend who is traveling to send me the serial numbers of his two rifles. I should have those this weekend and will send the list to TFG then.
It will be interesting to see what records exist.

So gentlemen, get yours in asap from the sound of it?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DoubleD
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#377210 - 10/06/23 12:08 AM

It would be interesting to see the various guns on this list and what the day book says about them.

The gun I have submitted is a Francotte Style Martini sporting rifle in 577 Snider. This is the same action used by Westley Richards for the 30,000 "Made especially for the ZAR" military rifles.

This is a full on sporting rifle by Jefferies, not a converted military rifle.

Edited by DoubleD (10/06/23 08:30 AM)

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93x64mm
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#377211 - 10/06/23 08:38 AM

Lovely piece DD
Nice pronghorn too if I'm not mistaken!

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 93x64mm]
#377212 - 10/06/23 05:24 PM

My WJ Jeffery has appeared on stage before.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3510&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

A distinguished Indian Gentleman.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DoubleD
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#377216 - 10/06/23 09:49 PM

That is Blesbok.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#377217 - 10/06/23 11:40 PM

Quote:

It would be interesting to see the various guns on this list and what the day book says about them.

The gun I have submitted is a Francotte Style Martini sporting rifle in 577 Snider. This is the same action used by Westley Richards for the 30,000 "Made especially for the ZAR" military rifles.

This is a full on sporting rifle by Jefferies, not a converted military rifle.

What loading do you use in your .577 Snider?

His does it compare to the .577 Snider Howday pistol load of a 480 gr lead bullet and 70 grs black powder?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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85lc
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Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#378135 - 29/07/23 05:19 AM

All,

I received copies of the Jeffery workbook for each Jeffery gun that people provided serial numbers. I sent copies to all except Marrakai (please send me your email address).

The records are the daybook records which were hand written and somewhat hard to read. However, they are interesting to find out information about our guns.

One of the interesting thing to me is that, from the records that I saw, most of the Jeffery rifles were made by Turner and Leonard.

DoubleD, please recheck the serial number of your rifle. If I had the number wrong, please email me the correct number.

--------------------
RB

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378146 - 29/07/23 07:03 PM

My email account needs some attention. It may need to be resent. I'll let you know.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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85lc
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Posts: 915
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#378161 - 30/07/23 04:44 AM

John,

That is too bad that you didn't receive my email forwarding information on your Jeffery. If you will email me at 1985fj@gmail.com, I will reply by forwarding the snapshot of the Jeffery workbook held by TFG.

The exercise has been very interesting for me. It appears that most of the Jeffery rifles were made by either Leonard or Turner (at least from the information that I saw).

I also learned tbat some Jeffery guns were chambered/bored for a special bullet clled a "lethal ball". Perhaps Laurence will be kind enough to write a post about his Jeffery and describe the "lethal ball".

Thanks to TFG for their help.

--------------------
RB

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ChrisCoade
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378186 - 31/07/23 02:05 AM

W.J. Jeffery Serial Number 20176 (Morphy Auction website 2015) is a .450/.400 NE Double Rifle originally owned by Colonel Jim Corbett. Later owned by Elmer Keith and then sold at auction to a Private Buyer in 2015 for US$ 264k. The auction website dated this rifle circa 1909.
The Jeffery "Daybooks" show that SN 20176 was made for W.J. Jeffery by "Leonard" - being Daniel Leonard & Sons of Birmingham, England.
Jeffery "Daybook" entry: 400 (.450/.400) Bore - Double - Hammerless - A&D (Anson and Deeley action) - Ejector - 24" (inch) Guss-stahl (Krupps Essen Ingot Steel) barrels - Doll's Head - Standard & 4 Leaves to 500 yards - Ivory Bead Foresight - Rib Scroll Engraved - Anson forend - Pistol Grip - Eyes for Sling - 10 Lbs 2 Oz:
"Cost Price" was £24 (3 other .400 Doubles on the same Jeffery "Daybook" page at £18 & £18 & £20).
The "Selling Price" was £45.
"To Whom Sold" column: "This rifle belonged to Col Jim Corbett" (Ref G. Whittome).

"Turner" was the other main NE Double Rifle maker for W.J. Jeffery. Thomas Turner was an English gunmaker (born 1805 died 1890). He had a workshop at 8 Fisher Street, Birmingham, England from 1834 - the workshop had closed by 1912. He had 2 Sons - Thomas Turner Junior and James.

Chris Coade
Gloucestershire, England

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85lc
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: ChrisCoade]
#378195 - 31/07/23 03:14 AM

Thanks, Chris,

I knew of Turner only as a premier maker of Whitworth target rifles. Apparently Turner (along with Leonard) were Jeffery's go to gun makers. I guess the English gun trade was composed of rilfe makers like Leonard and Turner and rifle sellers like Jeffery & others.

It was interesting that Jeffery 20176 sold for $264k. That is more than some people paid for their homes. I assume that at that cost, it is sitting in a gun safe. Well, at least whaen Keith owned it, it was a shooter.

--------------------
RB

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85lc
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378220 - 01/08/23 12:52 AM

All,

If anyone that sent to me a serial number and information about their Jeffery firearm has not received a copy of the daybllk, please let me know.

I just got an email from Historic Bore advising he had not received an email from me. Well, unfortunately I never had information about his gun. Perhaps his emaiol may have gone into my spam folder and was lost.

So if you have a Jeffery gin and have not heard back from me, please let me know.

--------------------
RB

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HistoricBore
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378360 - 05/08/23 02:28 AM

Hi RB and everyone

Just to say that a very clear photograph has just arrived with full details of my 'Farmer's Gun' Jeffery 12 bore hammer shotgun, which I now can see was made in June 1914, and so just before the Great War.

Its weight is given as 7 lbs, which it still is. The barrels are actually proofed as 13 bores, hence the extra weight over many game guns.

Thanks again to 85lc/ RB, 'Sharpshooter' and all the friendly people in Texas.

HB

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85lc
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: HistoricBore]
#378396 - 06/08/23 02:42 AM

Everyone,

I have received and distributed all of the information I received from TFG for all of the Jeffery guns. (John, I just emailed your information.)

If anyone has not received information or has a new Jeffery, please let me know.

It was a fun exercise. The Jeffery firm sourced most of their rifles from either Turner or Leonard and their shotguns from J. Saunders. (I am not familar with J. Sanunders).

Thanks,

--------------------
RB

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3DogMike
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378410 - 06/08/23 08:46 AM

Quote:

Everyone,
……...(snip)…...
The Jeffery firm sourced most of their rifles from either Turner or Leonard and their shotguns from J. Saunders. (I am not familar with J. Sanunders).
Thanks,

Just a note:
I have daybook copies from 1896 and all the Guns & Rifles noted in the 2400 series and 4700 series serial numbers were made by Ellis.
So it is not exactly correct that Turner or Leonard made "most" of the Jeffery Guns & Rifles (at least in the mid 1890's.
Certainly after about 1900 one sees Leonard as maker.

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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85lc
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 3DogMike]
#378419 - 06/08/23 01:05 PM

3DogMike,

That is good info. My comment was based upon what I saw which were stacked with Turner & Leonard. I guess that I we had all of the daybooks, we would have a more compete answer.

Thanks for the update.

--------------------
RB

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NitroX
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378420 - 06/08/23 03:47 PM

Thanks for doing this Roy.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#378443 - 06/08/23 11:20 PM

Thank you for doing this research for us Roy.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#378444 - 06/08/23 11:56 PM

My rifles entry, and kindly translated by Marrakai for me.

.450 No.2 Top-lever A&D (Anson & Deeley) Hammerless Double Cordite Plain Doll's Head
24" Webley Nickel Steel, Standing and 4 leaves to 500 (yds), Ivory bead, Pistol Grip,
Bison engraving, Anson Pushrod 11 1/2 (?) lbs

Lawrence Luber ?

17 2 0
2 5 0
19 7 0

24 0 0

18/167 0

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2398
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
#378450 - 07/08/23 05:45 AM

Thank you for doing this research for us Roy.

Is there a correct location on these guns for this number?

Is there any why to get access to research this day book?

I would be looking for a Martini made on a Francotte pattern action in 577 Snider. (or any 577.)

We already know the number on this gun is for a Holloway Shotgun.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (07/08/23 05:48 AM)

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#378456 - 07/08/23 09:16 AM

Quote:

Lawrence Luber ?

Turner (tubes?)
Definitely Turner, but barrels already attributed to Webley...?
I guess some intrigue must remain!

The rest are pounds, shillings and pence.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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85lc
.375 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: Marrakai]
#378457 - 07/08/23 09:24 AM

Douglas,

The serial number on my two Jeffery dropbloacks is on the left side of the action. However, for Martinis, I don't know where Jeffery numbered the action.

The backstory is that DoubleD is trying to get a Martini by Jeffery and the owner gave him a number that isn't the Martini's serial number.

If someone has a Martini by Jeffery, please let DoubleD know where the serial number is located so he can coordiante with his friend who owns this rifle..

--------------------
RB

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2398
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378483 - 07/08/23 11:49 PM

I am hoping someday this rifle will transfer to me. The gun is still in South Africa. It is a full on sporting Martini with ovate barrel and the nicer quality of a Jeffrey's rifle. The current owner thinks it is 577 Snider. I suspect it is actually something longer. But I had no way when I was in SA to check. I shot it a number of times, It did not shoot very well.

This guns number is marked on the barrel.

Some where on an old back up hard drive I have pictures of this Jeffrey's Martini. Probably the one that I can no longer find the cable for.

The action of this Jeffrey's is a Francotte type Martini
identical to actions that Westley Richards used for the ZAR rifles. Of course the ZARS are military pattern not sporting. The ZAR's are marked on the bottom bottom left edge of action body adjacent to the front of the trigger guard.

I have to wonder? Could it be possible there are two Jeffrey books? One for made up guns from other makers and second for rifles that Jeffrey's made up them selves?

Just a wild desperate idea.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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85lc
.375 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#378496 - 08/08/23 03:03 AM

DoubleD,

I believe the serial number will not be on the barrel but on the action. or at least, I have not seen a serial number only on a barrel.

Sometimes they are on the face or bottom of the action and other times they are on the lower tang.

"It did not shoot very well." Many vintage guns having been shot with black powder and corrosive primers have poor bores. Some can be cleaned up by lapping which is actually not hard, just time consuming.

--------------------
RB

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3DogMike
.400 member

Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1414
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#378499 - 08/08/23 05:37 AM

Quote:

……(snip)…..
I have to wonder? Could it be possible there are two Jeffrey books? One for made up guns from other makers and second for rifles that Jeffrey's made up them selves?

Just a wild desperate idea.

Douglas,
Having pursued this angle a few years ago I came up with the answer that the only "known" surviving Jeffery records are in fact the daybooks that are now held by The Friedkin Group.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2398
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378511 - 08/08/23 10:39 PM

Quote:

DoubleD,

I believe the serial number will not be on the barrel but on the action. or at least, I have not seen a serial number only on a barrel.

Sometimes they are on the face or bottom of the action and other times they are on the lower tang.

Could the number be hidden by the stock? Like on the face of the action such as the Martini-Henry?

Also since this is Francotte style Martini, could the number be on the trigger group?

Quote:

"It did not shoot very well." Many vintage guns having been shot with black powder and corrosive primers have poor bores. Some can be cleaned up by lapping which is actually not hard, just time consuming.

This has a lot more to do with my well documented disdain of the 577 Snider. (It's 24 gauge shotgun shooting a slug-my prejudice) None of my Sniders shoot very well.

But also this particular rifle had excessive drop in its breech block when opened, much more than needed to feed a Snider round and as often seen to feed a longer round in Martini's.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (08/08/23 10:43 PM)

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ChrisCoade
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Posts: 6
Loc: Stow-on-the-Wold, England

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
#378516 - 09/08/23 06:13 AM

Jeffery Serial Number 189XX is a .450/.400 dated 1909 and Made by (Thomas) Turner costing 16 Pounds - 12 shillings & Tubes costing 1 Pound - 8 shillings.

Chris Coade

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Lucky
.224 member

Reged: 10/08/22
Posts: 11
Loc: New Zealand

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: ChrisCoade]
#378520 - 09/08/23 02:14 PM

Dam I only just saw this thread , I have a Jeffery Farquharson in .303 , sure would of liked to get its build date etc.
Very hard to read the writing in the sales ledger

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85lc
.375 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: Lucky]
#378531 - 10/08/23 12:25 AM

Anyone who is Lucky should have an opportunity to check out their Jeffery. THe next time I send an inquiory to TFG, I will include your Jeffery.

BTW, the writing in the DayBook is informative but somewhat cryptic.

Now are there any other Jeffery gun owners that are interested in what the Jeffery DayBook has for their gun?

--------------------
RB

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Lucky
.224 member

Reged: 10/08/22
Posts: 11
Loc: New Zealand

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
#378538 - 10/08/23 08:50 AM

Thank you Roy , would really appreciate that , I would load a photo of my Jefferey but for the life of me cannot figure out how to do it , I am not very tech savvy.

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85lc
.375 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: Lucky]
#378969 - 29/08/23 05:32 AM

I received request for information about 4 more Jeffery firearms and will send that to TFG at the end of September.

If anyone else has a Jeffery or is considering buying a Jeffery firearm and would like to see the information in the Jeffery Daybook, please let me know fairly soon, at least before the end of September.

Todate, TFG has provided information about 16 Jeffery guns which is very nice on their part.

--------------------
RB

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: Lucky]
#384336 - 20/04/24 02:59 PM

I reopened, resurrected this thread per jcorry's query for a Jeffery he has.

As of this week, I hav a new Jeffery, a 16-bore side by side "game gun". Choked cylinder and "CHOKE" which might be improved modified per measurement, but hopefully improved cylinder.

So I'm interested in Daybook information again.

Anyone else? If 85lc enquires, get a few at the same time?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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