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OntarioNimrod
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Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Rizzini
      #364858 - 24/04/22 08:41 AM

Rizzini now has a SxS .470 that looks interesting. Anyone here have any insight on these?

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HeymSR20
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Re: Rizzini [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #364899 - 26/04/22 07:38 AM

Rizzini make good guns at affordable prices.

According to this https://www.rizziniusa.com/products/rhino-express they are looking at a bit under $12k for a rifle. Chrome lined barrels as well.

And this is a tour of the Rizzini factory

https://youtu.be/tTbG_pohpVw


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OntarioNimrod
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Re: Rizzini [Re: HeymSR20]
      #365448 - 12/05/22 10:19 PM

Thank you, sir. I’m shocked that with all the views, yours was the only reply to my post.

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Marrakai
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Re: Rizzini [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #365520 - 17/05/22 08:01 AM

Nitro-Expressers are probably too polite to launch opinions when you ask for insights!

...notwithstanding HeymSR20's valuable links.

No experience with Rizzini myself, neither first hand nor via third party.
If you do grab one though, please post your own experiences to help alleviate this shortfall!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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crshelton
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Re: Rizzini [Re: Marrakai]
      #365526 - 17/05/22 11:18 AM

Hear the Rizzini name, but have never seen one nor known anyone that has owned one.
Best of luck with your shopping.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/


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93x64mm
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Re: Rizzini [Re: HeymSR20]
      #365571 - 18/05/22 07:27 AM

Quote:

Rizzini make good guns at affordable prices.

According to this https://www.rizziniusa.com/products/rhino-express they are looking at a bit under $12k for a rifle. Chrome lined barrels as well.

And this is a tour of the Rizzini factory

https://youtu.be/tTbG_pohpVw




Nice looking pieces!
In good calibres too!


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DarylS
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Re: Rizzini [Re: 93x64mm]
      #365572 - 18/05/22 11:15 AM

Intrigued, I am.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Rizzini [Re: DarylS]
      #365584 - 18/05/22 07:37 PM

The engraving for that price, amazing? I think it must be an extra?





https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0520/6...pg?v=1611951451

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Louis
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Re: Rizzini [Re: NitroX]
      #365602 - 19/05/22 02:00 AM

" I’m shocked that with all the views, yours was the only reply to my post".

Ontario Nimrod, the reply to view ratio in all forums is usually pretty low so if you did not get more replies initially to your interesting post it should be that no one had much added value to bring to your question; "speech is silver but silence is golden"! Nothing that should be taken personally in my humble opinion.

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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OntarioNimrod
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Re: Rizzini [Re: Louis]
      #365613 - 19/05/22 04:02 AM

Quote:

" I’m shocked that with all the views, yours was the only reply to my post".

Ontario Nimrod, the reply to view ratio in all forums is usually pretty low so if you did not get more replies initially to your interesting post it should be that no one had much added value to bring to your question; "speech is silver but silence is golden"! Nothing that should be taken personally in my humble opinion.

Louis




Definitely didn’t take it personally. And I figured that was the reason for the shortage of replies. But that’s what surprised me. I figured that with the wealth of knowledge and experience on here, someone would be able to offer some insight.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Rizzini [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #365636 - 19/05/22 03:11 PM

No one probably commented as no one has one or has shot of encountered one.

If you buy one, you can write up a report. And future hunt reports.

Also sometimes teasers need to be added. A link or image.

When you spend eight hours on photos, editing. Writing a hunt story and get one reply .... Then you know how the internet response rate works nowadays. The days when people politely showed some simple appreciation are mostly gone. FB "likes" have negated a simple comment. Forums like NE still have good members who have good etiquette and post a comment or even a simple thanks. Was pleased to see that on an Explora simple link I posted yesterday.

As teasers, no replies? I would borrow an image or an intro write up on a second post. I might anyway. . Sometimes copy the whole article here. Simon Close once thanked me in an email for the great work NE .com did for promoting DRs around the world. No one from the DR makers has ever complained about the free promtions and advertising.

Btw some of the views might not be members at all. NE still has some public forums.

I am sure I had heard of Rossini before. But alas never in my hands. They need to send me one and some ammo for a review! . Doesn't hurt to try!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (19/05/22 03:15 PM)


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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
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Re: Rizzini [Re: NitroX]
      #365653 - 20/05/22 02:36 AM

Adding some more response, Rizzini guns are well regarded, indeed there a number of British firms that now have guns made to their specification by Rizzini, including a number of the London based firms. There is not a huge for double rifles in the UK but the likes of Frankonia in Germany source a lot of their own branded Doubles from Italian makers.

The likes of Rizzini have put good investment into precision machine technologies so that they can produce a high quality gun at an affordable price. You are paying for good materials, engineering design and final hand fitting and finishing. You are not paying for a man at bench carving an action from a solid block of steel with files and chisels.

Haven’t a clue what their 470 is like, but shotguns are on a par with Verney Carron, Berretta etc.

There have been several Rizzini’s over the years - all the same family, some are lesser grade, others top. We have a little over and under 20 - pretty basic grade, but its good solid nice handling little gun.


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OntarioNimrod
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Re: Rizzini [Re: HeymSR20]
      #365657 - 20/05/22 04:26 AM

Thank you so much!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Rizzini [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #365674 - 20/05/22 07:09 PM

Be interesting to see a Rizzini and also know which brands they supply. The design looks familiar.

Visited the Heym and Verney-Carron factories and some smaller hand made makers. H and V-C make for other makers. Confidential who! I forget the names on some boxes.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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degoins
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Re: Rizzini [Re: NitroX]
      #365680 - 20/05/22 09:21 PM

V-C were making doubles for Anderson Wheeler for one.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Rizzini [Re: degoins]
      #365683 - 20/05/22 10:39 PM

Quote:

V-C were making doubles for Anderson Wheeler for one.




Yes I know.

Others as well.

***

Barrels are often made by makers for other makers

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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HeymSR20
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Re: Rizzini [Re: NitroX]
      #365804 - 24/05/22 07:45 AM

Not a Rizzini Double Rifle, but a side by side 12 by Rizzini

https://youtu.be/eeN8HuuIUA4


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Nemo
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Reged: 16/06/23
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Rizzini double rifle part 1 [Re: HeymSR20]
      #377816 - 05/07/23 03:31 PM

This is my first post on the forum so please be gentle
I have been a member in good standing of the S&W and Marlin Owners forums for many years
but only recently came across this one which appeals to me greatly.

I joined this prestigious forum primarily so I could respond to this thread.
I happen to own a Rizzini double rifle in of all calibers, 444 Marlin and would like to
write an article about it for y'all but digging the BBCode out of Flickr, where my pictures are,
is kind of a trial.

I have been shooting and reloading 44's for around 40 years.
My first handgun was a 7.5" Ruger Redhawk in 44 magnum.
I then discovered the joys of the 44 special also winding up with a Marlin 444S from a gun show.
Along the way I also took up skeet, starting out with a BPS and quickly graduating to Beretta 12ga. doubles.
This got me perusing the Beretta catalogs when they were nice printed annuals.
Low and behold one year their 686 based O/U double rifles were offered in 444 Marlin.
This got me lusting after one but they quickly disappeared from the catalog and the only other
picture I have seen of this gun is in RL Wilson's big coffee table Beretta book.

Fast forward a few years and I retired from full-time work as a broadcast engineer and took up
part time positions as a video engineer at our university and as a lifeguard at the YMCA.
This gave me more time to concentrate on scientific reloading and saving for a double rifle.
I became totally enamored of reloading the 444 to the point of taking over curation of the
"444 Marlin Master Reloading Table" which is a spreadsheet that attempts to collect all published
444 Marlin reloading data in one place.
This table was started years ago by others at the Marlin Owners Forum but had not been updated
in quite some time.
I found that I liked doing this kind of thing when I could not hit the field and have been updating it since.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/31in08pa8...is0hwc&dl=0

Then came the day I said to myself "OK, let's get that rifle" and started sending out inquiries
to all the double makers I could find.
Internet search found exactly 2 444 doubles for sale in the USA at Griffin & Howe.
Both SIACE Alaskans.

They didn't look all that appealing and were about $9K if I remember.
One had fabric in the case apparently ripped by the front sight. Not cool.
Didn't like the grain in front of the grip either.

There are now quite a few European double makers that offer the 444 in their smaller 20ga. frames
mostly in Italy, Germany and Austria.
I sent emails to all of them requesting a quote.
A couple of weeks later I received an email from Rizzini USA (Fierce Firearms) saying they had one.
It had been their showroom demo for 3 years and not sold in that time.
He sent some (rather lousy phone) pictures and an offer of a $2K discount making the final price $5K.
They even kicked in the shipping and FFL transfer.
After careful looks at the pictures and reading the Rizzini.it website a bunch of times, I bought it.
Glad I did.
It's well engineered, built and regulated perfectly.
It even shoots some non-standard loads and will give me a lifelong reloading project as I attempt
to regulate some non-standard bullets like the Woodleigh 280gr 444 SNFP and it's 280gr Swift A-Frame brother.
I am already close to getting the 240gr A-Frame to work for the deer around here
having regulated the Hornady 240 XTP with a slightly reduced load.
The gun is regulated for the Hornady "LeveRevolution" round which may have been the only
factory 444 ammo available in Val Trompia at the time it was made.
This is the Hornady 265gr FTX bullet going around 2240 out of a 22" Marlin.
More on loading fun in part 2.




I've run out of time today and will continue this monologue tomorrow including a pictorial set showing
the details of the trigger-lock action which includes a hammer blocking safety which I really like.

--------------------
Nemo -- Everything 44

Edited by Nemo (06/07/23 01:58 PM)


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Rizzini double rifle part 1 [Re: Nemo]
      #377821 - 05/07/23 08:24 PM

Hello Nemo!

Welcome to NE.com. Your initial post is a good one, and maybe should have been the start of a new thread.

Yes, please do add more information about your Rizzini double rifle. We hard-core double lovers thrive on learning about new offerings to the market.

We may be able to pollute your mind in regard to some traditional makers! Kinda like cross-pollenization.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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85lc
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Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Rizzini double rifle part 1 [Re: CptCurl]
      #377829 - 06/07/23 01:19 AM

Nemo,

Welcome and thank you for your article. I also like the 444 Marlin; I have that in a RPM XL pistol. I have only seen one DR in 444 Marlin and that was actually a rebored DR being shown at a local gunshow some 20 years ago. Not knowing the gunsmith that did the work and the price, I passed.

I always thought that a DR based upon a 20 ga size shotgun frame in either 375 Winchester or 444 Marlin would make a wonderful DR for the US.

Very nice that yiou were abkle to get your DR for $5k.

BTW, your gun case says SIACE. Is there a connection between SIACE and Rizzini?

I look forward to reading your next post.

--------------------
RB


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Nemo
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Reged: 16/06/23
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Rizzini double rifle part 2 [Re: 85lc]
      #377842 - 06/07/23 05:15 PM

The SIACE gun and case is one I passed over due to it's sloppy condition as a "new" rifle.
Sorry if I wasn't too clear on that.
There IS a slight connection however mostly due to the fact that almost everyone in Val Trompia is related
if you go back far enough and most are in the gun business or support those who are.
There are actually 4 Rizzini families making guns.
#1 is F.lli Rizzini (Fratelli Rizzini) who is a bespoke, best gun maker turning out about 10 guns a year.
http://fllirizzini.it/versioneinglese/index.html
#2 is B. Rizzini (Battista Rizzini) and is the one most are referring to when "Rizzini" is mentioned.
They are right across the street from Beretta and make excellent computer machined and hand finished guns.
https://www.rizzini.it/page.php?idp=1
https://www.rizzini.it/fucile.php?cat=7&idf=37
The other 2 are members of the cooperatives FAIR and SIACE but I don't know much more than that.

Picking up the gun at my FFL, I noticed the very sturdy plastic case which has 2 thumb-wheel programmable locking clasps.

Empty it weighs 5 pounds.
It's nicer than my Beretta plastic double gun case.


And when I asked for one, they threw in a stock bolt wrench.


Getting it home and taking it apart, the first things I notice are the amount of copper in the bores and the white lithium type grease all over the inside.
It's almost as if it was never cleaned since regulation.
And I have no idea what went on with it while at Rizzini USA.

Slowly over the next week or so I managed to remove the grease using q-tips, tooth picks and all the usual cleaning equipment.
Luckily I had some experience taking care of the Beretta double guns.
The copper succumbed to Butch's bore shine and other solvents.
And yes the bores are micro-groove 1/38" twist typical old school 444 Marlin spec.
It's still somewhat of a mystery what they were thinking when "they" decided on a 1/38" twist for this cartridge.
Had they gone with as little as 1/30" twist we would not be talking about 444 Marlin twist as that should stabilize any 44 cal. bullet in these guns.

I got it cleaned up enough to think about taking it to the range and taking some pictures for documentation.
The styling tries to evoke a British look in the way the new Triumph motorcycles attempt to look like the old ones although completely different.
(I have been riding Triumphs since the late 1960's).
The fences look "borrowed" from H&H and the frame locking is all Purdey with the double underlug and "hidden nose" 3rd bite.
I think the nose may also have something to do with triggering the springs to snap close the frame locking when the gun is closed.
It weighs 7 lb. 10 oz empty and has the most intelligent off the shelf stock I have ever used.
The stock has a little cast and a little twist.
After lengthening the pull somewhat with a Beartooth Products adjustable slip-on butt pad, I can
mount the gun eyes closed and open them to see the sights perfectly lined up.
It's almost as if I fit for it with a try gun.
I am very impressed with the stock shape and dimensions.





That's all I have left in the tank for this evening.
The trigger lockworks exposé will have to wait for part 3.

Edited by Nemo (06/07/23 05:58 PM)


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Nemo
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Rizzini double rifle part 3 [Re: Nemo]
      #377849 - 07/07/23 07:11 PM

Without further ado here is an "infographic" of the lockworks of a Rizzini BR-550E.
The design is typical Val Trompia trigger-plate with the addition of a hammer blocking wedge
that prevents firing if the sears fall off while the safety is on (as if you dropped the gun).
The function is similar to a best gun side-lock sear blocking safety but this design is much simpler and easier to manufacture.
My Beretta double 12 ga. have no such feature at all.

1-Safety on, hammers cocked


2-Safety on, right sear pushed off, hammer blocked


3-Safety off, right sear engaged


4-Safety off, trigger pulled, right barrel fired


5-Right barrel fired, safety back on, sears dropped as with firing inertia (recoil)
Hammer block no longer effective for left side.


6-Right barrel fired before recoil


7-Right barrel fired after recoil


8-Left barrel fired


9-Left barrel fired, safety back on


I'll have more on regulating some non-factory rounds in the next installment.

--------------------
Nemo -- Everything 44


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bwanabobftw
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Re: Rizzini double rifle part 3 [Re: Nemo]
      #377854 - 08/07/23 08:32 AM

Welcome Nemo and congratulations on your new double !!!!!! Hope you can get it out this fall and kill a few deer and pigs with it, looks like a handy little double in a great cartridge.
Robert


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Nemo
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Reged: 16/06/23
Posts: 25
Loc: Wisconsin
Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #377891 - 10/07/23 03:00 PM

Thanks to all for the kind words.
We don't have a lot of pigs up here and the firearm deer hunting nearest to me is limited to shotgun and handgun.
I found out that my 26" 12ga. Beretta Ultralight (1st. year) shoots certain sabot slugs 2 holes touching around 75 yards.
I call it my poor-man's Churchill XXV paradox and it's my main hunting weapon.
I also have somewhere around 200 rounds of skeet thru it and it's still quite tight.
Definitely a keeper.

30 miles west of here is great rifle deer territory.
We also have a lot of wild turkeys just west of here, in fact one occasionally wanders thru our back yard right here on the outskirts of town.
South of here is very good pheasant hunting.

Just found out the #3 Rizzini is FAIR.
Fabbrica Armi Isidoro Rizzini
https://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns/gun...zzini-fair.html
http://www.fair.it/eng/storia.jsp

#4:
E. Rizzini was founded in 1974 by Emilio Rizzini, brother of Battista and Isadoro Rizzini.
Now absorbed into Fausti.
Emilio's son, Fabio, is married to Barbara Fausti.
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/there-are-four-different-rizzinis.69662/
has a lot more detail on the whole clan.
For instance the Guerini brothers are nephews of Battista Rizzini.
Gardone seems to be one big family!

Back onto my Rizzini BR550E:

As I said, it's regulated for the Hornady 265gr FTX LeveRevolution cartridge.
I am not a big fan of the FTX bullet in the 444 Marlin.
It's too long to crimp in the cannelure and still load into the side of a Marlin.
So they cut the brass shorter in what is already a slightly capacity challenged case (IMHO).
This begs the question of why would they salivate over a bullet because of it's superior BC and then load it in a cartridge that's 100 fps slower than their main 265 FP load (the Light-Mag and the SuperFormance rounds)?

However this turns out to be a boon in the case of regulating this rifle.
I can easily turn out a LeveRev clone using full length brass and the 265FP bullet going 2240 (46 gr. H4198) and it shoots perfectly.
The SuperFormance round is a powerhouse and drives the 265FP to 2340 fps.
One would be hard pressed to duplicate this round without going +P using available powders.
This gives me some velocity and barrel time overhead to regulate a slightly heavier bullet.
There's no way I could get a 280 to go over 2300 fps but 2240 is within reason.

The nearest range where I did all my 444 shooting closed before the pandemic so further development has been slow.
I did, however, find that the original Remington 240 gr. 444 ammo shoots well and chronographs around 2230.
My clone of that round using the Hornady 240 gr XTP (44.5 gr. IMR 4198) shoot just fine too.
This would be a good deer round for the little whitetails we have.

I do have some progress on regulating the Woodleigh 280 gr. 444 FNSP bullet, which is the sentimental choice for a double in 444, but have not finalized the load yet.
I have got it up to 2180 using RL-7 and feel the next 50 fps or so will be safe.
That and the 280 A-Frame would be my big game bullets if I ever needed such.


A couple of my initial targets when sighting in the Rizzini

I stupidly had a mercury recoil reducer installed for one of those and took it right back out.
It actually made the gun hop off my shoulder after each shot.
I don't have pictures of any of the later, better, groups using the right ammo.
40 yards is all I had at this range but the gun is supposedly regulated at 40 meters.
I've got to get to a better range.

--------------------
Nemo -- Everything 44

Edited by Nemo (10/07/23 03:10 PM)


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mchughcb
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Re: Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: Nemo]
      #379080 - 05/09/23 05:23 AM

Thanks for posting looks like a beautiful practical gun that won't break the bank using it.

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93x64mm
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Re: Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: mchughcb]
      #379082 - 05/09/23 06:27 AM

Nice groups Nemo!
Keep going on your testing, it can be frustrating but when you get there its so worth it!


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85lc
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Re: Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #379084 - 05/09/23 09:17 AM

Very nice groups. I have a 444M in a RPM XL pistol and it REALLY helps to hear a padded glove when shooting that pistol. I would rather shoot that cartridge in a rifle.

--------------------
RB


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DarylS
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Re: Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: 85lc]
      #379109 - 06/09/23 02:50 AM

Excellent groups, right on the POA, I assume.
If capable of handling normal .444 Marlin pressures of 43,000 PSI, that rifle should do 2,300fps with 265gr. Hornady's and 2,200fps with 300's. My Marlin easily did both and shot into 1 1/2" at 100 meters. Should never have sold that rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: DarylS]
      #379113 - 06/09/23 07:09 PM



Fantastic regulation. A .444 will make a great medium game double rifle cartridge, anything from moose and brown bear down. In Australia one might use it on scrub bull, banteng and water buffalo. Proper projectiles of course. And careful shots.

And for a new rifle for $5000 a good buy. That sort of price is a good medium calibre price level.

Well done, and a belated welcome to NitroExpress.

I hope to see you posting some hunting stories in the future with your new rifle. It should work well.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Nemo
.224 member


Reged: 16/06/23
Posts: 25
Loc: Wisconsin
Re: Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: 85lc]
      #379225 - 09/09/23 03:03 PM

Thanks for all the kind words.
Replying to as many as I can :

I have found that with the big hard kicking handguns, using the biggest grip you can will help with the recoil.
I almost bought a Desert Eagle BFR in 444 but instead put that money toward the double rifle.

One of the better decisions of my life.
I deeply enjoy the gun even when I am not shooting it which is most of the time.
It's in a small custom rack where I can see it while I synthesize and model loads in QuickLOAD.

QuickLOAD has a feature that is especially useful to those trying to ballpark a non-standard load for a double rifle.
One of the results is barrel time.
You can play with the various powders to try and match both the velocity and the barrel time to the regulation load.
Graeme Wright suggested as how a little faster powder works best for lighter bullets and slower for the heavy ones.
This is born out when studying those velocity and barrel time numbers.
Maybe I am a little slow but that seems counterintuitive to me as one would think the lighter bullets would
want to be accelerating at the same rate as the heavier regulating bullet.
I am beginning to accept that much is mysterious when it comes to double rifle physics.

The Rizzini is CIP proofed at 64 kpsi and is rated for the CIP 444 pressure of 51,488 psi (3550 bar)
so I have few worries of handling USA ammo or my own loads.
I am not quite sure how they (CIP) arrived at that number as it's quite different from the SAAMI numbers.
The rifle was regulated for the Hornady "LeveRevolution" 444 round which uses the 265 gr. FTX bullet.
This may have been the only factory 444 ammo available in Italy at the time.
Since this bullet is quite long they cut the brass shorter which lowers the velocity compared to the full length
"Superformance" load which uses the regular 265 FNSP Hornady bullet (at around 2330 fps).
This was necessary to allow the cartridge to load into the side of a Marlin.
You can load the FTX in full length brass one at a time into the top when the bolt is all the way back.
The velocity (out of my 22" 444S) for the LeveRevolution is around 2260.
Hence this is the ballpark velocity for regulating other loads.
Being 70 fps slower than the "normal" 265 load gives me some headroom to try regulating a heavier bullet.

I was measuring velocity with the 444S and a Magnetospeed before I got a LabRadar.
This worked fine as when I matched velocities in the single tube, they shot fine in the double.

The fact that my clone of the original Remington 240 gr 444 cartridge regulated right off the bat blew me away.
The grin on my face would have made me look like a South Park character.
This is the load that caused the very slow start to the 444's acceptance as the bullet was a handgun bullet and
sometimes blew up when hitting an animal. They added another cannelure near the bottom of the bullet but it didn't really help.
The 444 did not get reliable until Hornady came out with the 265 SPFP which has a thicker jacket and harder lead.
It was THE standard 444 bullet until just recently when Hornady discontinued it as a reloading supply.
The SuperFormance round which uses that bullet is evidently still being sold.
The main substitute is the Speer 270 FP which also works well.
I have not tried it yet in the double though.

The obvious bullet for a 444 DR is the Woodleigh 444 280 SPFP weldcore.
Definitely fills the role of the "blue-nose" as John Taylor called them.

They are as rare as hen's teeth here in the USA but I have gotten 100 of them and will try to regulate them next.
Going lighter was easy (doesn't get any easier than finding out stuff you already made regulates perfectly).
Going heavier will require some work especially as I want to fire as few of those precious Woodleighs as possible.
If the Swift 280 A-Frame ever becomes available again that will be a good substitute.
I have about 100 of them as well.
The Beartooth 280 WFNGC will be my main alternate while getting close to regulation and for practice as I have several hundred of those.

I am completely satisfied with the Rizzini BR550E.
The stock fits me perfectly after adding a butt-pad (I have long arms).
Most intelligent off-the-shelf stock I have ever encountered.
It's the best value in a double I can imagine.

The load I plan on pursuing Bambi with in a couple of months is that 240 gr. load that regulates so well
but with a Swift 240 gr. A-Frame instead of the Hornady handgun bullet.
Should leave a nice big hole all the way through.
Our whitetails aren't that big. Neither are the black bears around here.

--------------------
Nemo -- Everything 44


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39247
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: Nemo]
      #379250 - 10/09/23 04:12 PM

Quote:

If the Swift 280 A-Frame ever becomes available again that will be a good substitute.
I have about 100 of them as well.




Some people, myself included, are wary about using A or H partitioned jacketed bullets as well as monometal bullets WITHOUT RAISED driving bands in double rifles.

Other shooters of them say they are fine to use.

The solid jacket part can put too much pressure on a non single barreled rifle allegedly.

Perhaps in modern new rifles they might be more acceptable?

Up to the owner/reloader.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Nemo
.224 member


Reged: 16/06/23
Posts: 25
Loc: Wisconsin
Re: Rizzini double rifle part 4 [Re: NitroX]
      #379267 - 11/09/23 06:14 AM

Thanks for the warning.
I have read the thread(s) about stressed rifling in here as well as Graeme Wright's coverage of the topic.
I am not too concerned for a couple of reasons.
One is obvious and you mentioned it: modern barrel steel.
The second is not so obvious and has to do with the somewhat arcane original specs for the 444.
As I mentioned above no one really knows now why the 1/38" twist was decided on by Marlin.
That puts a limit on the length of bullets that will stabilize.
Anything over about .9" is questionable.
But the important detail here is the fact that all 444's until near the end of Marlin's existence were made with micro-grooved barrels.
These almost always have slightly over sized bores as well compared to 44 revolvers.
They shoot best with .432" gas-checked cast bullets which is usually the largest size 44 you can get.
For the last few years Marlin finally got wise and changed to a 1/20" twist barrel with "Ballard" rifling but the CIP stayed with the original specs.
Or Rizzini sourced some of the older barrels already rifled.
Anyway the double rifle has the older style rifling exactly like my 1980 444S.
There isn't a whole lot of rifling to stress.

The number of A-Frames I plan on putting thru it will be limited to a handful as well.
They are expensive and currently unavailable so I'll be husbanding them closely
All regulation and practice shooting is done with the Hornady or Sierra JHC until the final 4 or 6 rounds.
I consider the 240 a good size for whitetails and the 280 Woodleigh or A-Frame suitable for elk, moose, bison, and larger bears.
There is a remote possibility I could regulate (or come close enough) the Beartooth 295 gr. WLNGC.
I have several boxes of them and they have a very good reputation in the Marlin owner's forum.
If confronting the big brown bears or grizz, I'd want a load like that.
Sadly Beartooth bullets no longer exists.
Not only did they make excellent bullets but were at the forefront of 444 experimenting and documentation.

Spare old 444SS barrel I got from Numrich after a bunch of cleaning:


--------------------
Nemo -- Everything 44

Edited by Nemo (11/09/23 02:52 PM)


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