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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363478 - 14/03/22 03:55 AM

Huvious, I'm glad I'm not the only one who found the 450 basic difficult. I'm happy I have more coming so at least I'll have more cases to work with, but I'm not looking forward to the workout.

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DarylS
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: NitroX]
      #363481 - 14/03/22 05:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

by using anhydrous lanolin as the sizing lube



What is this called when buying at the hardware store or farm supplies store? Or where?


I usually use RCBS case lube, a lubing pad and about every second of third case for .450 No.2 NE brass. The lube in the die works ok every second or third resize.

Marrakai's method sound better.



If you can get it, I've found Imperial Die Wax to be the best in case forming, applied the same way as Marrakai noted.
Another that works well, is Hornady's case lube & Lee's die Wax in the tub & tube - applied the same way. I find both of these to be superior to RCBS sticky/nasty/hard-to-remove crap. As well, they are easily removed from the cases by laying a strong paper or cloth towel on one palm, placing 5 to 10 sized cases on the paper or cloth the folding the cloth back over top and rolling them between your palms.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: DarylS]
      #363493 - 14/03/22 08:46 AM

Daryl, I'm using Imperial Sizing Wax. I think what I may be doing wrong is trying to do too much with a single step (vs 5-10mm, stop, rotate). I have some of the RCBS product but hadn't tried it. I'll put that off as long as possible!

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DarylS
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363505 - 14/03/22 10:46 AM

Yes - by all means just go 1/4" to 3/8" at a time.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: DarylS]
      #363508 - 14/03/22 11:17 AM

A whole lot less chance of oil dents if you use Imperial Sizing Die Wax versus the RCBS lube or some other mocus.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #363513 - 14/03/22 03:10 PM

Agreed!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: Marrakai]
      #363518 - 14/03/22 04:39 PM

Quote:



Image "borrowed" from ebay.
Thanks, aus-healthcare-direct!



Tony's that guy who the pharmacist girls look askance at.

"That guy is always buying jars of lubricant!"


PS thanks for the tip!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Marrakai
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: NitroX]
      #363524 - 14/03/22 10:25 PM

Quote:

That guy is always buying jars of lubricant!


You will find that such a thin film is needed, a small pot of this stuff will last several years!
Not kidding. I have a second unopened jar sitting next to the one I use, but its literally been there for years.
...and I do a fair bit of reloading big cases!
Pretty economical case-lubing in that context.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: Marrakai]
      #363568 - 16/03/22 05:19 AM

So I just received more brass yesterday, this time some older Nonte Taylor 450 basic brass, 3.25". Quality looks nice but the rim is too thick. Assuming the Hornady 450 express brass that I have on order has the thinner rim I need, I'll be looking to sell these 17 Nonte Taylor cases for the $75 I have in them. I'm in North Carolina, USA.

Here's the story behind this brass. Neat that the author had first hand knowledge and shared this: https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/nonte-taylor-40-90-3-1-2-sharps/5327/3

Edited by CJF (16/03/22 07:35 AM)

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363573 - 16/03/22 07:41 AM

Looks like Amazon also carries pharmaceutical grade pure anhydrous lanolin. 28grs for $16. 2 day delivery free w/ prime. https://www.amazon.com/Lanolin-Nipple-Ba...10&sr=8-12. I didn't check to see if there was a cheaper version of pure lanolin. This just looked close to what was shared above.

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Marrakai
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363575 - 16/03/22 10:16 AM

Wow! Half as much for twice the price!

Luckily a pot will last a long time. Dunno what case-forming wax goes for on your side of the pond: hopefully its cheaper than we pay here.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: Marrakai]
      #363577 - 16/03/22 11:25 AM

Looks like you can get 2 lbs 100% lanolin from another seller for $35, so there are options.

Imperial Sizing Die Wax was $15 the first place I checked, for a 2oz tin. Lanolin looks much cheaper. (I'm currently using Imperial Sizing Wax and like it.)

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DarylS
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363578 - 16/03/22 12:27 PM

Quote:

So I just received more brass yesterday, this time some older Nonte Taylor 450 basic brass, 3.25". Quality looks nice but the rim is too thick. Assuming the Hornady 450 express brass that I have on order has the thinner rim I need, I'll be looking to sell these 17 Nonte Taylor cases for the $75 I have in them. I'm in North Carolina, USA.

Here's the story behind this brass. Neat that the author had first hand knowledge and shared this: https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/nonte-taylor-40-90-3-1-2-sharps/5327/3



I see it's "Sharps" brass in .40/90 parent case .45 3 1/4".
Pretty sure this is not the same head diameter as .450 BPE or .450 Nitro Express.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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eagle27
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363583 - 16/03/22 02:50 PM

Quote:

So I just received more brass yesterday, this time some older Nonte Taylor 450 basic brass, 3.25". Quality looks nice but the rim is too thick. Assuming the Hornady 450 express brass that I have on order has the thinner rim I need, I'll be looking to sell these 17 Nonte Taylor cases for the $75 I have in them. I'm in North Carolina, USA.



Wouldn't take much to thin the rims on these cases if you have access to a lathe or can get someone who does to do it for you. Thin from the inside of the rim of course. I made a bunch of 455 Webley cases from 45 Colt cases when I had a Webley revolver, had to thin the rims and cut the Colt cases shorter for the Webley but only took a minute or so for each case on the lathe.
Your Nonte Taylor brass would be good to use and have a bit of history to boot.

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3DogMike
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: DarylS]
      #363667 - 19/03/22 05:25 AM

Quote:

…...
I see it's "Sharps" brass in .40/90 parent case .45 3 1/4".
Pretty sure this is not the same head diameter as .450 BPE or .450 Nitro Express.


I stand with Daryl on this. Before you start thinning rims, etc. best mic the cases to see if they will suit. the .45 Sharps head diameter is different from the .450 Express.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #363766 - 22/03/22 01:25 PM

Mike & Daryl, I'll definitely post dimensions for both the Nonte Taylor and 450 brass that I have before I do any modifications to the Nonte Taylor.

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363768 - 22/03/22 01:41 PM

Beautiful day here in North Carolina. Took both the Reilly 450 BPE and Dickson 500 3" BPE to the range about 45 minutes before sunset to try out loads for each.

The good news is that the range was empty and I could use the most convenient berm for this kind of testing.

After a few minutes setting up, ran four careful shots through the Reilly, standing, leaning with elbows on the shooting bench. Light was good (which is important as my eyes don't see irons like they used to) and results, at least for the Reilly, made me really happy. The first R and L shots were vertically separated by 1.5". The 2nd R was touching the 1st L, and the 2nd L was 1/2" away from the 2nd R.





Here are both rifles:


Just the Dickson (which has non-rebounding hammers)



And finally the 500 target, which was nowhere near as good as the 450, but better than the last outing. For what it's worth, I can shoot better than this.



Both loads were slightly different than what I'd tried before because they included lube cookies made of 1/2 beeswax, 1/2 crisco.

I'm curious why both guns are shooting high and right. Could be flinching. Or possibly a ramification of shooting with elbows from bench vs standing unsupported. Will continue to experiment.

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DarylS
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363793 - 23/03/22 06:54 AM

Not sure about the Crisco, but 50%/60% beeswax and 50%/40% Vaseline works very well with black powder.
The case provided appears to have been shot with smokeless.
Vaseline is not a Petrolem Oil product, it is a Petroleum WAX, which works well with BP fouling, in case you wondered.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: DarylS]
      #363794 - 23/03/22 07:43 AM

All the rounds I shot on this outing were 100% black powder (OE FFg). No duplex or NFB. And I could smell it on my clothes on the drive home

The 500 BPE and 450 BPE cases all come out clean, with no black soot on the sides, unlike my 360 BPE AH. Those typically have one side all black, similar to a more modern experience, like 9x19 out of a GHM9.

What made you think they were smokeless?

Edited by CJF (23/03/22 01:40 PM)

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363795 - 23/03/22 07:45 AM

I realized the target showing the 450 results was after the 3rd shot. This should show all four:

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: DarylS]
      #363796 - 23/03/22 07:52 AM

Quote:

...50%/60% beeswax and 50%/40% Vaseline works very well with black powder...



Daryl,

I'd read about both Vaseline and Crisco, as well as olive oil and others to blend with the beeswax. I'll try a batch with Vaseline when I'm done using this batch up.

To create the grease cookie I tried the method where you gently melt the beeswax and whatever else you're adding, and then pour that as a film into a bowl of hot water, where it rises to the surface and ultimately congeals. First time trying it. Seem to work okay, although I had some irregularities that I scraped off with a knife. I also think the final product was closer to 0.25 than 0.2 thick, which was a bit much in an already cramped case.

What method do you recommend?

Regards,
Chris

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3DogMike
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363905 - 26/03/22 01:26 AM

Chris,
Nice results on that last target!

Depending upon how much you are going to shoot black powder rifles (lubed fibre wads help with BP shotguns as well) you might consider these:

Lube ribbon extruder
http://csharpsarms.com/catalog-detail.php?product_id=146

SPG black powder lube
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1503542859/

The lube ribbon extruder is a real labor saver and makes nice precise 1/8" thick cookies. I tend to double them up to 1/4" in my BP Express rifles.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363915 - 26/03/22 05:27 AM

Quote:

All the rounds I shot on this outing were 100% black powder (OE FFg). No duplex or NFB. And I could smell it on my clothes on the drive home

The 500 BPE and 450 BPE cases all come out clean, with no black soot on the sides, unlike my 360 BPE AH. Those typically have one side all black, similar to a more modern experience, like 9x19 out of a GHM9.

What made you think they were smokeless?



No soot is all!
I mixed my lube in a pan on a hot plate. I know you're supposed to use a double boiler. I didn't.

I also tried the pan version with an 1/8" thick sheet, lifted from the pan after it cooled, then pressed the sheet of lube over case mouth after seating the wax-wad with 1/10" powder compression.

Prior to using the flat sheet of lube version, I used a screw-driver tip into a lube cake to get roughly the same amount of lube, then rolled that into a ball & pressed that into the case & onto the wax wad over the slightly compressed powder.
That worked.
I used a wax paper disk/wad between the powder and lube ball, to allow the powder's flame access to the lube ball with appears to help it coat the bore to keep the fouling soft. This was written up by the late Paul Mathews in his book "The Paper Jacket". An excellent book to have.
I have been doing this since reading this book, as well as with BP loads and paper patched bullets, having the patched bullet barely over bore size, by no more than 1/2 thou. This also works and was the only reason we got my bro's Sharps to finally start shooting with accuracy, with black powder loads. Before getting these undersized patched bullet 1 1/2" 5-shot groups at 100 meters, when using more normal groove diameter and larger grease groove bullets & groove diameter paper patched bullets with BP, his groups were 8" or more.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: DarylS]
      #363927 - 26/03/22 10:55 AM

Mike - if you're doubling the 1/8" extrusions, then perhaps I shouldn't be as worried about the current sheet of beeswax and crisco I created which is about 1/4" thick. I'll use that up first and look at the extruder you've linked (thank you for that.)

Daryl - I also didn't use a double boiler, just was real cautious on the amount of heat. I did catch some grief for having beeswax in the family cooking pot after I was done. Ran that through the dishwasher twice and thankfully it came clean.

So far I've gotten away with only the lube cookie for the 450, which is shooting well. The 500 is another story...sounds similar to your brother's Sharps. I'm using a lube cookie and hand cut cardboard wad. I'll need to keep trying variations there including some purchased wads.

I got Paul Matthews book last week and thankfully I have some vacation this upcoming week so I'll get a chance to read it (but not try anything out till we're back from the beach.) The 500 has traditional rifling and seems to lead up quickly. That rifle is basically new condition condition. The 450 is Henry rifling and doesn't yield the same lead flakes when I clean it but it also has some miles on it. I want to try paper patching to see if that improves accuracy on the 500 and protects the bullet. The 450 I'm just going to try different shooting positions next.

I really appreciate both of you helping me out. I don't know how people did this before the internet and great resources like this forum. Thank you (and Brent and everyone one else!)

Regards,
Chris

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3DogMike
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #364008 - 28/03/22 01:05 PM

Chris,
Use the grease cookie thickness and mix that works for you. Looks to me like I would not change a thing on the .450

As to your .500; it came to my mind to ask what your bullet lead hardness or mix is? Maybe softer or harder bullets would tighten things up?
Can't remember, are the barrels on the .500 Henry rifling or standard land & groove? Taper bore maybe? Could try a grease groove bullet that is at or +.002" of the groove-groove diameter just ahead of the throat? I have a .500 3" that is abysmal with paper patch but shoots great with harder grease groove bullets.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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