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CJF
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Reged: 07/08/17
Posts: 212
Loc: United States
EM Reilly 450 Express
      #362421 - 21/02/22 06:20 AM

I was able to negotiate the purchase of a new (to me) double and now have it in hand. The rifle is by EM Reilly and marked on the damascus barrels as "450 Express Bore". I started a recent post about the "CP" markings this has on its barrel flats but I don't think we've resolved the meaning of this marking.

Bores are Henry pattern rifling and bright. Hammers are rebounding. Jones underlever. Horn grip cap and steel checkered and engraved buttplate (I really like the steel plate after seeing what the worms did to the horn plate on my other double, a Dickson in 500 BPE).

Serial and Henry PUN suggest 1883-4.

Extensive engraving, which is what got me hooked initially.

Weight is on the lighter side at 8.6lbs. 26" barrels probably help. Muzzle heavy balance.

Now the search begins for brass, dies and bullets.

Any recommendations on bullet starting weight based on the gun weight?

Pics below. I apologize in advance for the size. Still not comfortable with hosting service (I sure miss photobucket before they became uber greedy)





Edited by CJF (21/02/22 07:56 AM)


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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #362422 - 21/02/22 06:21 AM





Edited by CJF (21/02/22 07:55 AM)


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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #362430 - 21/02/22 07:59 AM





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SB
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Reged: 18/03/19
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #362431 - 21/02/22 08:22 AM

Very nice!

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LRF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: SB]
      #362432 - 21/02/22 08:33 AM

CJF, are the chambers 3 1/4"?
270 grain bullets was the standard for the 450 BPE. I just bought an original box of Kynock blackpowder rounds. The bullets are 270 grain hollow points filled with copper tubes. And measure .454" diameter over the paper patches. My Thomas Hepplestone was regulated for 120 grains of black. Also I suggest you measure your bore diameter breech and muzzle as it could be choked.


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85lc
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: LRF]
      #362435 - 21/02/22 09:08 AM

LRF is correct that the standard bullet weight for the 3 1/4" BPE was 270 gr being pushed by 120 gr 2F. However, Henry standard weight for their rifles was 325 gr.
I suggest checking bore diameter as that varied.
That is a very nice looking rifle.

--------------------
RB


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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: 85lc]
      #362447 - 21/02/22 10:51 AM

LRF & RB, I've not yet cast the chambers and bore. I can measure a defined step in the chamber for the forward edge of the brass at 3.25-3.3" Agree I need to cast that and the bore at the muzzles.

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #362457 - 21/02/22 02:46 PM

Lovey piece of kit indeed!
Would love to see your range results & loads - once you get there of course!


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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: 93x64mm]
      #362828 - 28/02/22 02:01 AM

I have some cases coming. Haven’t seen dies in stock yet.

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Huvius
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #362831 - 28/02/22 03:20 AM

Dies here:
http://www.bigfivehq.com/searchFrame.htm

A bit spendy though.

Superb looking rifle!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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85lc
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #362834 - 28/02/22 04:22 AM

Quote:

I have some cases coming. Haven’t seen dies in stock yet.




Have you tried Dave Davison at CH4D (740.397.7214). I just ordered 300 Super Flange dies from them and they were in stock.

I would think that 450 NE dies would be available at CH4D; they re the same a s 450 BPE dies. That is what I use for my 450 BPE.

--------------------
RB


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93x64mm
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: 85lc]
      #362840 - 28/02/22 07:25 AM

Beautiful rifle & superb engraving CJF.
I hope you post your results up here when you take this old lady out for a spin.


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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: 93x64mm]
      #362975 - 03/03/22 02:45 PM

So now dies are inbound. Thank you all for the ongoing help

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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363439 - 13/03/22 10:53 AM

Got to range today to try this out. Only had time to size and load 5 rounds. Used 120 grains of FFg under a 350gr flat nose lead bullet .458 diameter. Very happy to report it shoots to point of aim. Had 4 rounds in a 3” circle. Also tried the 1910 Oberndorf mauser sporter I posted about in a different thread. Very happy!

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DarylS
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363441 - 13/03/22 11:41 AM

Very nice. Rather subdued colour case still showing.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363442 - 13/03/22 01:09 PM

I agree about the case colors. Some nice hues around the hammers.

Here are some pics from the range today. Load was 120 grains of OE 2F under some beeswax and a 350 grain flat point lead bullet (originally purchased for a 45/70). The first round was a flyer (nerves whenever I shoot a new old gun for the first time!). Next 3 were actually to POA. I'm feeling very lucky right now.







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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363444 - 13/03/22 02:17 PM

Question for you experienced reloaders. When sizing cases for the first time, especially these long BPE cases of 3 to 3.25 inches, do you tend to lose 1 case per batch during initial sizing?

So far I've lost 1 each of a 500 BPE, 450 BPE and 360 BPE lot. I overall feel like I'm learning (I've been doing this roughly a year), but I just lost another case. They are so expensive, it's irritating.

I am lubing with Imperial sizing wax, and not trying to size on one pass. These 450 cases (BELL) have been the hardest to do so far.


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Marrakai
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363448 - 13/03/22 04:39 PM

CJF:
While its fine to say you shouldn't lose any...
sometimes sh!t just happens.

I minimize losses, usually to zero, by using anhydrous lanolin as the sizing lube, and I mean very sparingly ie wiped on with the fingers like you're wiping it off...
and rotating the case ~180 degrees between compressions of only a few mm each time.

That is, size a couple of mm, back fully out and rotate case in shell-holder, then size a couple more mm, backing off and rotating again, and so on until fully sized.
Maybe a dozen or more compressions per case. Actually takes less than a minute per case.

Everyone does it differently I suspect, but that's my MO for what its worth. Hope it helps.
Cheers

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: Marrakai]
      #363458 - 13/03/22 07:20 PM

Quote:

by using anhydrous lanolin as the sizing lube




What is this called when buying at the hardware store or farm supplies store? Or where?


I usually use RCBS case lube, a lubing pad and about every second of third case for .450 No.2 NE brass. The lube in the die works ok every second or third resize.

Marrakai's method sound better.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Marrakai
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: NitroX]
      #363467 - 13/03/22 10:45 PM



Image "borrowed" from ebay.
Thanks, aus-healthcare-direct!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: Marrakai]
      #363468 - 13/03/22 11:01 PM

Lubricant!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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3DogMike
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #363470 - 14/03/22 01:30 AM

Quote:

Question for you experienced reloaders. When sizing cases for the first time, especially these long BPE cases of 3 to 3.25 inches, do you tend to lose 1 case per batch during initial sizing?

So far I've lost 1 each of a 500 BPE, 450 BPE and 360 BPE lot. I overall feel like I'm learning (I've been doing this roughly a year), but I just lost another case. They are so expensive, it's irritating.

I am lubing with Imperial sizing wax, and not trying to size on one pass. These 450 cases (BELL) have been the hardest to do so far.



Could you elaborate as to “losing cases”? Do you mean big oil dents, deep creases or folds, splits, crumpling?

I use Imperial sizing die wax (and only the barest thin film as mentioned above). If forming basic brass or necking a cylindrical case, I, like Tony, size only maybe 8-10mm rotate 180° and repeat. Taking the sizing really slowly. Sometimes between steps I rewipe the case with my fingers to respread the film of lube and eliminate it from “building up” in any area.

Have not used the old Bell basic cases except for .50 Sharps 3 1/4”, and years ago formed some into .500/.450 #1 Express with no drama. I wonder if annealing before sizing might help?
Not had any trouble with .450 3 1/4” using Hornady or Bertram brass, but then those are already formed rather than basic brass.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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3DogMike
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: NitroX]
      #363471 - 14/03/22 01:38 AM

Quote:

Lubricant!



Well how about that…….the Kiwi’s have found another use for sheep

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Huvius
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #363474 - 14/03/22 02:01 AM

I've found the 450 basic the most difficult to size to 3-1/4"
I hate the stuff actually - hope to get some Hornady brass for my 450s eventually.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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CJF
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Re: EM Reilly 450 Express [Re: Huvius]
      #363477 - 14/03/22 03:54 AM

For the 450 I'm talking about the initial sizing of new brass. I had 10 new old stock BELL cases, marked 450 Base. These took a lot of effort to size down in their first pass through the CH4D dies I purchased. Easy to resize after firing, but the first effort was difficult.

Cases lost so far have varied. The one 450 case I lost had a longitudinal split form in its side. Doesn't go down to the base of the cartridge, nor to the mouth.

The 360 BPE Bertram case I lost developed a bend closer to the base than the mouth. I have not tried tapping this out on a mandrel yet. The other 19 were fine.

The 500 BPE A-Square case was purchased used. I created a circular ring in the case just below the mouth, like the muzzle of a Napoleonic wars cannon, when trying to resize the first time.

I have not annealed any of these cases before sizing.

I will definitely try the short stroke and rotate approach recommended above.


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