Quote:

---

WOW I want one
a real wrist breaker . I think I'd load that one with trail boss

---

I would not attempt to load trail boss in the Snider for this gun.

Black powder only.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

I am in agreement about not using Trail Boss in this pistol. Pressures are higher with TB than they are with black powder, as well as having a different pressure curve.
I would suggest the 20 bore loaded with round ball, at tiger repelling distances, even to 15 yards, would be slightly better at the job than the .577 Snider.
Better yet, would be a 16, 14 or 12 bore SxS pistol.
The reason being more than sufficient penetration, especially with hardened balls & the capability of heavier loads yet.

---

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

Pedersoli needs to borrow that thing and use it to re-engineer a production version!!

Complete with lanyard loop!!

---

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

WILKINSON & SON, LONDON
A .577 (SNIDER) DOUBLE-BARRELLED HOWDAH-PISTOL, serial no. 7990,
circa 1880, with 6 1/2in. rifled barrels, the top rib signed 'WILKINSON & SON, 27 PALL MALL LONDON', bead fore-sight on a shallow ramp, engraved band at breech, rounded side-lever opening action (traces of colour), standing notch rear-sight to front of top-strap, blued serpentine side-lever with chequered thumb-piece, scroll engraved curved back-action locks signed within engraved tri-folded banners 'WILKINSON, PALL MALL, LONDON', plain hammers, chequered walnut pistol-grip butt bearing the stamped serial number in the wood only, moulded butt-cap with central horseshoe-shaped lanyard swivel, full length trigger-guard tang and diminutive captive borderline engraved iron fore-end with traces of colour, overall length 13 1/4in., weight approximately 3 1/4lbs.



Please click HERE to view Terms & Conditions. Please note all Lots are listed in accordance with UK Law, for overseas buyers, please ensure you are familiar with your relevant local firearms and customs regulations before bidding.

Estimate £5,000-8,000

Sold as an exempt item under Section 58 (2) of the 1968 Firearms Act, to be held as a curiosity or ornament

---

At that price range, in slightly better times, and less imminent future commitments, I would be a serious bidder.

I asked Cal Pappas what he received for his similar (?) handgun and it was considerably more.

Hopefully this howdah does not end up in some fatcat's 400 gun "collection" to gather dust forever on a shelf somewhere.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

Plus one definitely for Huvius' opinion



Mine is identical but not as good condition

I expect it will well exceed the high estimate

TH44

---

Have you shot yours? How well does it regulate and at what ranges?

A reason for the regulation interest, is the need for shooting a tiger or leopard off an elephant's back is no longer a great need. But if legal I wonder how well they would work for hunting? At I suppose pretty short ranges.

Is yours a .577 Snider?

Can you get brass?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

Hi Nitrox
Yes it is .577 Snider
It is totally illegal to shoot in the UK
What about Australia? (is that where you are?)
I have a Snider rifle on certificate so have ammunition but if I put in the pistol
5 Years in jail!!

---

I do not know the law in Australia and also different states,

A Howdah handgun MIGHT be able to be owned as a non shooting antique. If it satisfies the age test, which it would. And if ammunition is not readily available for it.

As noted it can be handloaded, but so can many other antques not being shot.

If owned as a collectors firearm, a collectors firearm can be shot in South Aust ONE TIME per year. And ammunition can not be held for the collectors firearm. Some states and territories such as the NT have far better collectors laws.

I am not sure how the difference between an antique, ie not on the firearms register, and a collectors firearm, ie on the firearms regisater, works. Obviously different.

The BGRC - Big Game Rifle Club - has a Howdah shoot discipline. I don't know if any club actually shoots the Howdah shoots? I think it is shooting paper only. If my opinion a Howdah shoot needs to be from a rocking or wobbly platform and shoot pop up tigers and leopards at close range , which also pop down again seconds later. Might be difficult to do safely. I do want to build such a setup myself.

I would also like to see steel silouhette style targets for a Howdah competition. WHY? Because in Australia we have a maximum handgun calibre size of 9 mm/.38. In South Aust the only acceptable exclusion to this ban for our SA Police, is if metal targets need more power to be knicked over. A .577 Howdah is out of bounds if shooting paper. But knocking over a sizable metal target might be acceptable. Another proviso has been the competition needed to be Olympic or Commonwealth competition recognised, which BGRC is not.

Hunting in South Aust with a handgun is not legal.

I would try to buy one anyway. And would obviously want to shoot it. Even if only as a collector until things change if ever. Or as an antique if that was the only way.

I am serious grieved to not be able to bid for this item. Have been thinking of what I could sell, a double rifle not used yet, organs, my soul?

But I may be purchasing half or more of a pastoral bush block very soon and that will be "spare funds" for a few decades.

I think these howdahs are reasonable investments as well, for those who can or will sell them on oneday.

A real pity you can not shoot your howdah handgun in Borisistan.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

I thought the .577 Snider Howdah cartridge was a different short case compared to the .577 rifle cartridge?

---

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

imho, a textbook howdah in the next Holt's auction

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...374&image=3

WILKINSON & SON, LONDON
A .577 (SNIDER) DOUBLE-BARRELLED HOWDAH-PISTOL, serial no. 7990,
circa 1880, with 6 1/2in. rifled barrels, the top rib signed 'WILKINSON & SON, 27 PALL MALL LONDON', bead fore-sight on a shallow ramp, engraved band at breech, rounded side-lever opening action (traces of colour), standing notch rear-sight to front of top-strap, blued serpentine side-lever with chequered thumb-piece, scroll engraved curved back-action locks signed within engraved tri-folded banners 'WILKINSON, PALL MALL, LONDON', plain hammers, chequered walnut pistol-grip butt bearing the stamped serial number in the wood only, moulded butt-cap with central horseshoe-shaped lanyard swivel, full length trigger-guard tang and diminutive captive borderline engraved iron fore-end with traces of colour, overall length 13 1/4in., weight approximately 3 1/4lbs.










thats what it have to be

---

What did it sell for? Any one know? Bidding is closed. I was considering bidding

Sold for £6,500

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (22/06/21 03:19 AM)

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

http://www.holtsauctioneers.com/Gun_Room/Sept_2021_DD.pdf

---

Beautiful piece of kit there Lancaster, would be a handful for sure!

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

Marrakal (and all)

My inclination like yourself, is for a cut down shotgun for the following reasons

Length 35cm, is the same as the one below, most cartridge ones are 30cm 12 inches

the lock plates are straight, the main giveaway IMHO and smoothbore

Top lever as you say, but not sure although I have not seen one, are they out there?

If it has been completely re-stocked it has been done well if modified like mine it is easy to see in hand

The push button fore end looks good, the one below is 4 inches clearly cut down, the one on a scabby 24 bore shotgun I bought a few months ago is over 6 inches

I bought this very c heap a couple of years ago knowing what it was, having seen a couple here in the UK as the pinfires are classes as antique no licence (as is 24 bore)





It is a very poor Spanish 16 bore but interesting in its own right

AS for the one in Italy posted, if local I would like a look and probably give it a punt but only after close examination

What do others think?

TH

---

This one looks like a remodelled long arm.

The Italian one looks made for purpose with the trigger appropriately place and angled into the grip.

Rifled vs smooth bore? Howdah use? I am pretty sure for actual shooting a tiger off an elephant's back at that distance, smooth or rifled bore? No real difference. For shooting targets, possibly? I'd like either.

I didn't bid for this one. If E500 yes, sight unseen. If I couldn't get it out, no too tremendous a loss. Btw it could cost say up to $1000 or a bit less to get out with agents. Will wait for a "cheap" $10,000 ! Snider version chances by ! Or some reproduction ML.

This one was interesting. What did it sell for? 4 hours to go E1500.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (13/07/22 07:21 PM)

Post Extras: