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IMO, the best dangerous game double would be a self cocking hammer rifle.
Operates exactly as a hammerless action BUT you also have the ability to bring the loaded rifle to half cock (safe blocking the actual hammer rather than the trigger) and be able to return silently to full cock.
Also, a quick glace at the rifle tells you it is cocked or if an actual misfire had occurred which is unlikely these days I guess.

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This however I can recommend if one wants to gain experience in using a side-by-side hammergun is to buy a hammer shotgun and go birdhunting in SA, England or other places where one can enjoy mass shooting and develop gun practice. I am sure after a week cocking hammers and learn point-ability the adaption of this empirial gained knowledge to a big game hammerrifle rifle wouldn`t take long. It all about workability with use of hammerguns. The Jones underlever is a bit slower to work than a toplever for volumes of fast flying doves but fast enough. I am not in a hurry.

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I agree completely. I started off shooting my Dad's two hammer shotguns. A .410 side by side, and a 12-bore Hollis side by side.

I think the .410 was tightly chocked. I remember the dust explosions at range when I missed a rabbit. Not a great big circle! I learned to shoot that .410 really well. When I started with it, its extractor was weak, and I needed to carry a cleaning rod to push out cases. Much later I had it repaired.

When I switched to the 12-bore, I probably shot worse. An easier gun to shoot and got lazier shooting! That gun is the one I have described elsewhere as not possibly being very safe. Certainly needed the shorter shells - 2 1/2" - which I did NOT use or know about back then.

I also have a 12-bore Stevens - an American brand I believe - which was owned by my other Grandfather and my Uncle gave it to me. Hammers as well. In better condition. However missing one hammer, my Uncle had 'temporarily' lost it, since refound, I hope, but I don't have it yet. Need to get it repaired by someone competent. Then I will shoot it. I hoped to use it at Vintagers shoots. Never have shot at a Vintager shoot! A day's full drive away.

Using a hammer shotgun is slightly slower in lock time than an internal lock. So shooting clays is slightly slower and more difficult. Some farm guys with their old hammer side by sides shoot better than guys with their fancy special clay shotguns. In the usage and practice.

I love using hammer shotguns.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Some how 1911s were safe to carry into combat for 100 years, then DA/SA anwswered a problem that didnt exist outside of training and now its a new answer with Strikers.

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So we fought how many wars with hammer guns, telling soldiers to cock the hammer before shooting??? As this relates to Dangerous Game, hammers MAY be a tad bit slower when startled; but certainly no slower than flipping the safety off. K-Guns have a cocking lever instead of a safety but its a heavier spring and not as easily flipped "off" in an emergency encounter.

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My habit when carrying my Merkel is to load it, close it, flick the safety off, then put it back "ON" for carrying. It takes about 500 repetitions to burn something into muscle memory, so I sat in front of the TV with dummy rounds and repeated the same motions over and over. Now Im looking for a Paradox with hammers. Ill PRACTICE cocking without looking and lowering the hammers. I may even try it with live primers in otherwise empty cases just to add a bit of seriousness to the maneuvers.

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Ha ha, I used TV elephants to practice shooting elephants in the brain. TV docos, the makers would be horrified to know were being used in such a way. An calendars and books. Everytime I saw an elephant, quickly estimated the shooting point to reach the brain. TV doco elephants you often have split sections before a scene changes.

Its good practice for all sorts of repetitive training. I would NOT use live primers in the house. I would be too scared closing the gun seeing live primers and have to quadruple check they aren't loaded rounds!

Good repetitive practice is something a lot of people miss. Having "99" guns, and shooting them once a decade each. Every gun different. I once found I would reload at the waist not at the shoulder so practiced that. Usually it is automatic now. A .22 RF is fine to build up the repetitive action. The working the bolt at the waist comes from the desire to not loose brass for reloads. For a dangerous game rifle in particular this is stupid. For a break open gun, different of course.

The idea of taking a safety off when at the shoulder is another practice to make automatic.

And for hammer guns, at the shoulder as well. I think I don't do this for hammer guns. Will have a think how I want to do it. Consciously before raising, or at the shoulder? May depend on the circumstances.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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That's likely a good idea, EDELWEISS, with primed cases.

I bought a side by side Field hammer gun in 2 1/2" 12 bore for shooting at rendezvous.

The gun is sweet and working the hammers was not a big deal. Missed 2 birds (or was it 1?) on the quail walk
thus pulled out a second place. There were close to 50 shooters.
The fellow who won, was shooting a 2 3/4" chambered modern single shot with a hammer - choked, of course. Had to get on them quickly with the cylinder bored double.
All black powder loads, of course.

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Well done Daryl. Amazing how the winner is often someone shooting something otherwise a handicap.

"Quail"? I'm guessing these are quail like clays? What do they do, suddenly burst up from a bush while you are doing the walk?

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (16/06/20 08:46 PM)

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In the last week, on the NE facebook group we had one person claiming, even demanding, that hammers have no place on a dangerous game rifle.

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You might guess what I think? I shut this fool down pretty quickly.

He had posted twice separately almost exactly the same thing - "Hammer rifles have zero place in modern dangerous game hunting".

I asked him, had he ever actually used one? Never got a reply or another post. I guessed he was a facebook armchair shooter or hunter with zero experience from the tone of the comment. Maybe has hunted or shot, but never with a hammer firearm. Facebook is where lots of shooters and hunters go nowadays, but so many dickheads and also experts with no real knowledge. The bigger a page or group gets, the worse a lot of comments get. FORUMS are so much better. Where we all agree, all the time! Ha Ha. Joke. Discussion is good. Especially with some fact and experience.

I also shut this guy down, as I also do not like people who think they can get onto groups I host, and shut down the whole discussion. Its what we do, post and share and discuss, in good nature, and without insults.

I had another FB member who is knowledgeable an Aussie with lots of vintage guns, a member for a single day, telling someone bowhunting was not a topic for the fb NE group! We've had bowhunters on here since day ONE. Bow hunting is even more vintage than BP! BTW if this guy isn't on these forums already, you should be!!! Good knowledge, good guns, and also uses them! Join up if you read this!

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Now Im looking for a Paradox with hammers. Ill PRACTICE cocking without looking and lowering the hammers.

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David shooting his Holland & Holland Double Rifle in .600 Nitro Express - GIF

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I also never considered NOT cocking both barrels. Unintentional "doubling" aside, It seems a bit foolish NOT to cock both hammers when preparing to shoot at Dangerous Game. Am I wrong in believing that the whole point of Double Guns, is the fastest second shot?

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Both inside "hammers" of a hammerless gun are cocked, so why not cock both side hammers?

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The advantage with a .600 NE with (external) hammers is no chance of a double discharge.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (29/09/23 12:34 PM)

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Both inside "hammers" of a hammerless gun are cocked, so why not cock both side hammers?

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The advantage with a .600 NE is no chance of a double discharge.

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With my .577 BP Express' and Bore rifles I cock only one barrel at a time just in case……..not to be confused with "strumming" the rear trigger (I've never had that problem), simply in case of firing shock knocking the left barrel sear off the tumbler on a 120+ year old rifle.

I'm not hunting anything more dangerous than Marmots (like a Groundhog) anyway…..(maybe the Monty Python "Killer Rabbit")

Bird hunting with my hammer 12 Bore I do cock both hammers.
- Mike

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"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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My early experience with double guns was as kids we started off shooting rabbits and ducks with 410's our father made from old 303 SMLE's but we also had a light little Belgian made 28g double hammer shotgun, Damascus twist barrels and all.
One conundrum with this gun was once you cocked the RH hammer you could not open the gun as the top lever operation was inhibited by the cocked hammer. To open and make the gun safe you had to uncock the RH hammer, both hammers had quite strong springs and young kids thumbs are not as strong as adults but surprisingly we never had any AD's with the gun. Likewise couldn't carry the gun open with hammers cocked as the top lever in the open position prevented the RH hammer being cocked.

I don't think you would want a gun like this for DG hunting. If you got out of sequence when reloading, cocking or uncocking in a hurry you might be caught out unless very familiar and proficient with the gun when under stress.

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