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bjlooper
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Reged: 27/03/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Mississippi, USA
SEARCY vs CHAPUIS
      #29796 - 20/04/05 06:35 PM

I'm Looking for a entry level DR I have come down to either Searcy or Chapuis. Does any one have any insight into this choice.

I talked to Chaplin and they don't carry Searcy does any one know why.

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SteveH
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Reged: 26/12/03
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: bjlooper]
      #29807 - 20/04/05 10:52 PM

bjlooper,

Glad you posted this thread. I've been himming and hawing over a DR for a while too.

I've been to Champlin's and was given a great tour by JJ. He was emphatic that the Champuis was the best made DR for the money. I trust his word and have my shotgun there for repairs with him right now.

Then again I spent a bit of time with Butch at SCI and fondled a couple of his rifles. Everything I've heard about his guns are that the are fine pieces and the fact that so many PH's use them speaks well.

Both JJ and Butch both said that the stocks could be ordered to fit, so I don't think that this should be an issue.

I'd really love to hear some objective opinions as well. But it might end up being a blondes vs brunette thing .

-Steve

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: bjlooper]
      #29808 - 20/04/05 10:52 PM

I got my Chapuis from Champlins. They are a Chapuis dealer. I think you can only buy a new Searcy from Butch directly. Iv'e handled a Searcy but never owened one. What I can cay about the Chapuis is: it's an extremely high quality rifle. They have a beaver forearm, which I'm not crazy about, but it's nothing that would stop me from buying another. Also, Champlins garantees the Chapuis for life. Mine .470 in the brouse model with french grey color and AAAA wood and weighs 12 lbs. I paid $12,500 for it.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

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new_guy
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: bonanza]
      #29810 - 21/04/05 12:01 AM

Although Searcy doesn't apparently have many "dealers," Ivory Beads is one - so they must have some sort of dealer program.

Now as to which one is better, well YOU need to decide that.

If you listen to the opinions here, you'll never be able to make an educated decision

JJ & George certainly have some strong opinions regarding these two and I think they are both overly-qualified to opine on the subject.

However, lots of guys shoot and love the Searcys.

They are both going to shoot well. Both can be stocked to fit your dimensions. (Ray'll be by here in a bit to tell you about the competitions his Searcy has won ). But they are going to shoot about the same.

So the real question is which do you like better? Personally?

PS - My advice (either way) is to buy used if you can. I've seen a couple of Searcys lately and Chapuis pop up from time to time. You'll save some money and not be in it for a loss if you change your mind about it in the future.

If you end up buying a new Chapuis - For you own sake - price one from this dealer (I keep telling people this, but no one is listening - bonanza!) He is considerably cheaper on new Chapuis than the other dealer's prices you've seen.

www.heirloomarmes.com
Dale Nygaard is his name.

I ordered two from him last year, and they take about 6-months to get from the factory.

Good guy, GREAT prices.



--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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Rell
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Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: new_guy]
      #29811 - 21/04/05 12:26 AM

If you're going for a medium bore I'd take the chapuis. They make a 9.3x74r ejector gun for less then $5000 USD. The chapius are definatly more limited to caliber. I think it's 375hh, 416 rigby and 470ne. Realistically the 470 is the only option.

The searcy comes in most traditional flanged cartriges. 375f, 400J, 416/500, 450ne, 470ne, 500ne and 577ne. For a first, more then 8mm, double I'm leaning towards a 400 Jeffery myself.

The backing that Butch gives his rifles is pretty much a lifetime deal. His customer service is legendary in these parts.

I've handled both in the last three months and shot both in 470NE. I prefered the Searcy. My only complaint with it is that the action is stainless and does not seem to come in color case hardening. A minor problem, but an issue for me non the less.

The Searcy was way more accurate and the fore end was more comfortable to hold. All in all I've pretty much decided on the Searcy in 400J or 375f. Probably a deluxe boxlock with the intercepting sears, more engraving, chumperlump berrels, and a few bells and whistles. What the hell if you're going to spend 10-14k for a double, why not spend an extra 5-6k and get it excatly the way you want it the first time.



--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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500grains
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Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: Rell]
      #29815 - 21/04/05 02:41 AM

I own a Searcy and I shot 2 Chapuis (both in .470). While shopping for a double, I ruled out Chapuis because the rifles did not fit me. Searcy and Heym fit me well. The Chapuis that I shot were good shooters. There have in the past been some rumors about Chapuis did not hold up well to shooting a lot of rounds due to their light construction, but that could be just rumor, or perhaps someone overloaded their gun or otherwise abused it. Searcys have been known to shoot more than 6000 rounds without going off face. And the winner of the North American double rifle championship last year was Butch Searcy shooting a.....Searcy.

Good luck with your decision.

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mstarling
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Reged: 07/01/04
Posts: 37
Loc: West Virginia, USA
Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: Rell]
      #29816 - 21/04/05 02:49 AM

I have a scoped Chapuis in 9.3x74R and a Searcy Field Grade in .470 NE.

The Chapuis also has 20 ga barrels and makes an almost perfect combination for its intended use. It is probably the best shotgun I've ever used on pheasant, grouse, chukkar, and quail. Absolutely wonderful ... with a very, very long reach.

As a 9.3 it has been a little challenging to create loads that match its regulation. When that was done, it has been working very well.

Chapuis stocks tend to be a little long. Recoil of a full house 9.3x74R on such a light rifle is a bit surprising. I'd not want to shoot one in .470 if it is as relatively light per caliber.

The Searcy is more accurate and easier to load for than the 9.3x74R ... but is definitely a "working" gun. Not as slender or "elegant." I think that has been improved on the PH model.

There is a fella on this board with a Chapuis .470 who has shot my Searcy and Chapuis. I understand he has ordered a 9.3x74R Chapuis as well. Maybe he will chime in here. (Frank???)

In the medium bore the Chapuis would be hard to beat. I'd certainly try the fit of both the Chapuis and the Searcy in larger calibers. (I love the Searcy and would not change my choice, but it was driven by cost as I am not well to do any more.) I don't see how Searcy's service could be any better ... hard to say of Chapuis.

I think Chapuis made a 500/416 at one time if not currently ... they provided the chamber drawings that Kreighoff verified they used. If that caliber is available that might be a dynamite compromise. However, I've heard it said that Butch felt that the 500/416 has a recoil almost equivalent to the .470 NE.

mike starling

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: bjlooper]
      #29822 - 21/04/05 03:24 AM

I'm not a promoter of either .

What I would do is handle both and see which you personally like. Of course price is a consideration as well.

You don't mention the calibre you are interested in.

The Chapuis has medium calibres which most users really really like it in.

The Searcy has a range of larger bore calibres which aren't as easy to find in current manufactured rifles especially the .400. I think generally the Searcy is a direct buy from the maker. A markup on his prices would make it significantly more expensive and maybe uncompetitive in price.

Both come in the standard .470. Which is a great choice of big game calibre.

Have fun choosing and I am sure you will like the one you pick and eventually own.

Of course there are also "vintage" rifles to choose from and if bought from a reputable dealer will also be something really fine to acquire and maybe pass onto your offspring one day.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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new_guy
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: bjlooper]
      #29826 - 21/04/05 05:24 AM

In reply to:

And the winner of the North American double rifle championship last year was Butch Searcy shooting a.....Searcy.



I'm not a NASCAR fan, but apparently Greg Biffle won last week's race driving a "Ford"...

So if you're in the market for a NASCAR car - make sure you get a "Ford" - apparenltly they are the fastest.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: new_guy]
      #29837 - 21/04/05 12:56 PM

In reply to:

So if you're in the market for a NASCAR car - make sure you get a "Ford" - apparenltly they are the fastest.



Unfortunately I own a Dodge.

The interesting thing about the rifle Butch used to win that match is that it was a customer's gun which had sold to the customer and later borrowed back because Butch did not have any guns in the shop which he could use.

I wonder if Greg Biffle got his Ford from the Hertz rental car lot.

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: bjlooper]
      #29850 - 22/04/05 03:05 AM

Searcy vs Chapuis,

It's the question I ask Mrs CHAPUIS last week at the French hunting Fair of Rambouillet.
BTW I promised NitroX to post a report about Double Express.

Concerning CHAPUIS( I mean RENE CHAPUIS, the other express maker is his cousin PAUL CHAPUIS), I met the sons of Rene and chatted a long time with these fine guys.
Nothing new about African doubles. They think the best have been done and that all one can add is a risk when dealing with DG.

SEARCY : what are they thinking of Searcy?

They won't badmouth Searcy. They just say :

- look at the conception of the Searcy doubles and what is the base Searcy is using to build an express.

- check a Searcy and a Chapuis after one season and check which one gets loose. Check what the PHs are using.
They talk like jesuits, all is said without beeing obnoxious. Now make your mind








BTW : they like Champlin and they have a huge respect for the American customers : they know what they want and like when hunting very dedicated, very honnest.



--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: larcher]
      #29852 - 22/04/05 03:31 AM

Some fine rifles!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: new_guy]
      #29853 - 22/04/05 03:53 AM

In reply to:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And the winner of the North American double rifle championship last year was Butch Searcy shooting a.....Searcy.



I think that if there were a World Championship of Doubles it would be the Vintagers, not the shoot in Cal. Anybody can claim to be a Worlds Championship.



--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: mickey]
      #29857 - 22/04/05 05:57 AM

Mickey,

Who said 'world'?

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mickey
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Posts: 4647
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: 500grains]
      #29880 - 22/04/05 02:21 PM

The shoot in CA. has been referred to here, by a few, as 'The Worlds Championship.'

My comment would also apply to North American Championship

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: mickey]
      #29886 - 22/04/05 03:55 PM

Would a modern made double like a Searcy, Chapuis, Merkel etc be enterable into the "Vintagers" competition?

Do they have a "vintage" age requirement like some of the requirements of the BGRC?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: NitroX]
      #29894 - 22/04/05 08:58 PM

NitroX,

The double rifle competition at the Vintage Cup is divided between "stalking rifles" and "stopping rifles". The latter are the big ones, and a rifle and load must meet certain minimumm caliber and energy requirements. Scopes are not allowed in either category. The age of the rifle is not considered.

I just checked the website to get the specifics, but I don't see that info currently up. You can look at:

http://www.vintagers.org/

The Australian shooters have done quite well at the event. You will see this if you look at some of the photos posted there.

You and your fellow shooters from Oz should come in September.

Best,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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500grains
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: mickey]
      #29912 - 23/04/05 02:59 AM

In reply to:

My comment would also apply to North American Championship



Are you saying that the name is misdescriptive?

If so, wouldn't that be true of Vintagers also since modern arms are allowed?

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mickey
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: 500grains]
      #29916 - 23/04/05 03:41 AM

In reply to:

Poster: 500grains
Subject: Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS


In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My comment would also apply to North American Championship


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Are you saying that the name is misdescriptive?

If so, wouldn't that be true of Vintagers also since modern arms are allowed?




The Vintagers is a name. The claim to be some sort of National or International Chapmpionship when you are one of many, and not the biggest, is a bit presumptious. Do you disagree?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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500grains
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: mickey]
      #29926 - 23/04/05 11:17 AM

I don't see that it is any different than Vintagers when non-vintage rifles are allowed.

You've got some doubles that shoot pretty well. You should go to the shoot and beat Butch at his own game.

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mickey
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: 500grains]
      #29931 - 23/04/05 03:36 PM

I don't care if Butch wins or not. It would be fun to shoot in competition again though. I do have a couple of rifles that could compete. I would be the limiting factor now though.

It is a time honored method of selling rifles to enter and win shoots. Holland has been mining a win for over a hundred years.



--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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chopper
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: SteveH]
      #30003 - 25/04/05 06:06 AM

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=31248464
This link will take you to a used searcy 577 that has been listed a couple of weeks for 13.5k.There is also a chapuis ph2 in 470 listed on this sight for 15k.What is the forums take on which the best buy would be and why?

--------------------
A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user.TR

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new_guy
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: chopper]
      #30006 - 25/04/05 09:33 AM

15K is too much for a Chapuis.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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500grains
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Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: chopper]
      #30009 - 25/04/05 11:35 AM

Chopper,

That Searcy .577 is a pretty good deal because a new one would cost $18K. The Chapuis ought to be less than $10K, but it may have upgraded wood or engraving that theoretically makes it more valuable, but certainly not $15K.

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new_guy
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: 500grains]
      #30021 - 25/04/05 01:11 PM

Exactly... a Chapuis works well (budget wise) b/c of the price point at which they come in. they are economical, and there's a point of effeceincy (IMO) when assesing thier features and price.

More engraving on a Chapuis will make the price go beyond what the value of the gun really is. [read: "lipstick on the pig"] In fairness, I believe the same rule applies to Searcys as well - or any other DRs in these price ranges.

When a 10K gun gets to near 20K in price b/c of its "pretties", well you've got a whole host of other options available for a 20K DR.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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JeffWemmer470
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Reged: 03/05/05
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Re: SEARCY vs CHAPUIS [Re: new_guy]
      #30413 - 03/05/05 03:51 AM

Haven't shot the Chaupis - can't comment!

However the reason that I wen't with Searcy was the fact that in this day and age of "mass" production, Butch's guns are truely hand made. Yeah, ok, he does the grunt work via CNC (so does Purdey & H&H), but the fit,finish and regulation are done by hand.

BUT....that's still not the REAL reason...

...Butch represents something that is nearly gone nowadays - A "true-grit" approach to doing business. He designs, builds and shoots his designs! You can go to his shop, drink coffee, look around and spec the rifle the way you want it...CUSTOM fitted on the spot! And guess what - if there are ever any problems - he's there to get it fixed NOW!

Plus, I have not heard a complaints from any PHs that use his guns.

I'm getting a .470 Deluxe Boxlock for competition use. I'm not a collector, thus all of my guns must be accurate and handle like an appendage of my body! (don't go there!! )


JW

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