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buckstix
.375 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 652
Loc: Whitetail Country
700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video
      #280803 - 13/04/16 12:45 AM

Hello All,

It was suggested I bring my post over to this Forum. It originally started on the Classified forum because I was looking for brass. Here is the complete story from the beginning to date.

October 2015

As you may have seen, I was pleading on various forums for anyone to help me obtain some 700 NE brass.

I needed about 30 pieces of the brass for a custom 700 NE double rifle that I'm having built.

I had ordered some Lathe-turned 700 NE cases and was promised an 8 - 10 week delivery - that was 20 weeks ago.

And now I've been told those cases would be another 10 weeks, "at best".

The only extruded cases made are from Bertram, and they cost about $40 each from several sources.

I have these on back-order from 2 distributors, with no idea of delivery. One said it could be over a year.

Even at these high prices, I could not find even a single 700 NE Bertram case for sale - "anywhere in the World".

January 2016

Finally after 3 months a fellow forum member, hubel458, came to my rescue with a suggestion and some 50 BMG brass to be modified into 700NE cases.

Here's how it went. Perhaps this will help others in need.

Fortunately, the 700 NE case is ever-so-slightly smaller at the head, than the 50 BMG case



I purchased 32 pieces of 50 BMG brass for the transformation.



1st, the 50 BMG case is trimmed to 700 NE length.



2nd, the mouth of the 50 BMG is annealed and opened up to 700 NE size.



3rd, the head of the 50 BMG case is turned down by 0.024" to .780" dia.



4th, the heads of the 50 BMG cases are threaded to 5/8-24 for about 5/16"



5th, using brass bar stock, 0.890" dia. x 3/8" thick brass washers are made with a 5/8-24 internal thread.



Up to this point I had to pay others for the precision machining that was required. Now I took over.


6th, the thick brass washers are permanently attached to the case head with high torque and red loctite.




7th, the brass washers are faced-off flush with the case head. (700NE FL resizing die is used to hold the case)



8th, the brass washers are back-faced (flush with the case body) to the rim thickness of 0.080" thick.



9th, the first 3/4" of the case mouth is precision thinned to .015" thick by turning over a mandrel.



10th, the prepared cases are polished with emery paper



However, because the cups of large BMG primers are very thick, much firing pin force is required to ignite them.

This is not a problem with BMGs, or bolt action rifles, but it is a problem with the lesser firing pin force of a double rifle.

To solve this, bushings must be made to reduce the primer pockets down to standard Large Rifle primer size.


11th, the heads of once fired 300 Win Mag cases are turned down to make the LR Primer bushings.



12th the finished bushing is cut from the 300 Win Mag case.



the 300 Win Mag case head, before and after machining to isolate the primer pocket.



13th, the primer bushing length is machined to the same depth of the 50 BMG primer pocket.



14th, the LR Primer Bushing is "press-fit" (with 4 blows of a 3 lb hammer) into the BMG primer pocket ( 0.001" interference fit)



15th, the case is de-primed and re-primed with an F215 Magnum Large Rifle Primer.



All 32 manufactured 700 NE cases are now ready to be loaded.

Total paid to others = $660 = $20.65 per case. (+30 hours my machining time = $620 saved over retail)



Federal F215 Magnum Large Rifle primer - inserted into the bushing - compared to a 50 BMG primer.


Here are the details on how the custom 700NE build was coming along while I was getting the brass ready for loading

The Custom Gunsmith doing this project is Aaron Little, from Newark, Texas.

Aaron contacted me back in October 2015 in answer to my want ad for a 700NE rifle. He inquired if I would be interested in a custom build. After a brief discussion, the project was started.

background: I had purchased a Larona 10 gauge some time earlier as an intended donor gun for a 600NE custom build project.



As it turned out, Ken Buch is an excellent salesman for Verney Carron and he convinced me that I should own a "genuine" 600NE.

Since the Larona was no longer required for the 600NE project, I inquired to Aaron if it would be suitable as a 700NE donor. Aaron asked for some initial measurements and a description of the Larona.

This particular Larona was actually built by a high quality Spanish builder, Pedro Gorosabel, and imported by Frank Clark Jr., Cheyenne, Wyoming, back in 1957. Researching this fine 10 gauge double resulted in the following information being found.





This double was in MINT condition with 100% remaining case color. It is a virtual unfired "safe queen" with some very desirable features suitable for a custom double rifle: Anson & Deely pattern box lock - Reinforced Frame - Chopper Lump Bbls - Greener Cross Bolt - Scotts 3rd Bite in Rib Extension - Purdey Side Clips- Vented Firing Pins, Hinged Front Trigger - 11-3/4 pounds - and best of all, it only cost me $580.

When Aaron received it in hand, he was impressed by the size and quality of the piece.

Its only negative was the recoil pad which was crushed and crispy from standing in a safe for nearly 60 years.










February 2016

Here are a few step-by-step pictures I received from Aaron showing some of the transformation.

To start the project, the original 10 gauge barrels were cut-off leaving the breach intact for mono-blocking the new barrels.

Two .700 caliber barrels were purchased from pac-nor. The cartridges along side the barrels are: 700NE, 500NE, 450NE and 338 Win Mag.


That's a 500NE in the bore and a 700NE on top.


After cutting off the shotgun barrels, the breachblock/monoblock is clamped in the mill vice and indicated. One hole is indicated and bored out, and then the second hole is indicated and bored out. The bores are not parallel with each other and the mill head must be angled accordingly.


Boring out the first hole with a boring bar.


Facing the breachblock after boring (not terribly important since the barrels will be smoked onto the breachblock face)


Turning the first barrel to fit into the monoblock - tight fit.


First barrel into the monoblock.


Turning down the barrel outside diameter.


With both barrels now in place, Aaron started optimizing the weight for proper balance. To off-set the 28" barrels, 3 pounds was added to the stock, bringing the total weight of the rifle to 18 pounds, with the balance point to just in front of the hinge. With 2 loaded rounds in the chamber, the carrying weight will be a "pleasant" 18-1/2 pounds. As was expected, the original recoil pad could not be removed without damage, so it has been replaced with a new one.


As the project continues, the new extractor has been made and fitted, and a new forend hanger has been made and installed.

Next, Aaron will be making the top rib, and installing it, & the bottom rib. Front and rear sights will also be added. Then, he will be refitting the forend wood to match the new barrel contours.

When all this has been completed, the rifle will come back to Wisconsin for my load delelopment and testing. Once the desired load has been established, the rifle goes back to Texas (with 40 rounds of loaded ammo) for regulating. I'm sure Aaron is looking forward to that day. And after regulating, the rifle will receive final finishing.

While Aaron has been busy on his end, I too have been preparing. In addition to manufacturing the 700NE brass, a dummy chamber is in the works to serve as a "go-nogo gauge" so I can check my loaded rounds while waiting for the rifle. Finally, I've purchased an Italian Leather Case, and designed an appropriate Trade Label.



For those interested; here is Aaron's contact info:

http://www.facebook.com/profil...p?id=100001646464847

A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC
682-554-0044
Michael08TDK@yahoo.com


Here are a few progress pictures that Aaron shared with me to show some details of how the build went.

Here you can see the rib being laid-in using High-force 44 and pine rosin.


Here you see making the forend hanger. He leaves them "wide" as not all guns are made with forend iron dead center. When he's further along, he mills the sides to fit.


Next he files the correct angle on the hanger face that will drive the forend iron into the action knuckle. You can see here it needs more fitting so that the forend iron drops closer to the barrels.


Here is shown - "contact"


Here the stop is just shy of touching the barrels/rib.


Next he starts to file the hanger to accept the sliding lock.


Shown "finished".


Forend hanger in place.



March, 2016

Here is a progress report of the 700NE project.

First off, let me start by saying that the pictures I'm sharing here depict a "work-in-progress" and the "rough look" is by no means a reflection of Aaron Little's Gunsmithing skills. Make no mistake, his "finished" work is Masterful and pictures at the completion of the project will be posted.

Aaron Little has been busy. Today I received the 700NE Double Rifle "in-the-rough" for Load development.

Aaron told me that things will be looking very "crude" at this point because nothing has been finished. Only the basics have been completed to the point where it can be safely fired for me to develope loads. Nothing has been regulated.

Tomorrow I start shooting and recording the obtained velocities. Actual targeting will be recorded but for curiosity only - absolutely "no expectation" of left and right shots being anywhere close together.

I think the pictures below speak for themselves.

Barrel length is 28"
Weight is 17-1/2 pounds (loaded)
Balance is slightly ahead of the hinge

Last picture shows the 700NE compared to my 600 NE VC

Comments are welcome.























Well, I'm back from the range. What a surprising experience! Shooting this double is nothing less than awesome.

My goal was 1500fps with a standard 1000g Woodleigh bullet. Using data obtained from Accurate Powders, I loaded 16 cartridges with 5744 at 5 grain intervals, starting at 100 grains, alternating between jacketed and lead bullets. Each cartridge had a 1-1/4" long piece of 3/4" dia. foam backing rod over the powder to act as a filler in order to keep the powder in the bottom of the case and against the primer.

It seems that in this double, the starting load of 100 grains was already too high resulting in an average velocity of 1562 fps with Woodleigh bullets. My next trip to the range will be with cartridges loaded with only 85 grains of powder. At that expected 1500fps velocity, the recoil will be a managable 67.2 ft/lbs.

I went to the range with cartridges loaded with 3 types of bullets; (1) 1010g Lead bullet of my design - .697" dia, (2) 1000g Woodleigh Soft Point - .699" dia, and (3) 1000g Woodleigh Full Metal Jacket Solids - .698" dia.



Here are the results of the testing. There was no measurable differences between the Woodleigh Soft Points and the Woodleigh Full metal Jacket Solids. Here is the data.

powder wt bul wt vel recoil
-------------------------------------
5744 100 1000 1562 77.1
5744 105 1000 1582 80.5
5744 110 1000 1605 84.2
5744 115 1000 1708 94.5

Now-

What came as a surprise to me was the very first 2 rounds I fired through the rifle. I thought I would save money by using cast lead bullets, which are virtually free, over using store bought Woodleigh bullets, that cost over $3 each. Well, I did save money, but WOW! That first shot unexpectidly bashed me into next week, with over 106 ft/lbs of recoil.

In fact, one of the two friends at the range commented; "I never seen a neck get stretched that far, without the head snapping off at the adam's apple."

I was expecting 1400fps which would result in about 55 or 60 ft/lbs of recoil. The second shot was the same, but at least this time I was ready for the beating. Before I looked at the chronograph reading, I wondered "what did I get myself into?" If this rifle kicks this much at 1400 fps, what would it be like at 1500 fps? I was starting to second-guess this entire project. Then I saw the chronograph readings: "1900fps" and "1902fps", and instantly decided not to shoot any more of the other lead bullet loads, which contained even "more" powder. I then went on to the jacketed bullet loads and was very much more pleased with their recoil, albeit they well still higher velocity than my 1500fps goal. Here is the data.

powder wt bul wt vel recoil
-------------------------------------
5744 100 1010pb 1900 106.1

I had experienced higher velocities with lead bullets over jacketed bullets in the past when shooting my 600NE. The lead bullets obturate to fill the bore completely with no gas getting past them, unlike jacketed bullets which allow some leakage. But I never before seen such diffrences in velocity as measured here. I will recheck this phenomenon but with some lighter loads.

Worth mentioning is that the Federal F215 Magnum primers functioned perfectly in igniting the 5744 powder in these large cases. Also, the cases that were made from the 50BMG brass showed no measurable difference in velocity. All primers (even the 1900 fps load) were flat, but with round edges and no cratering or flow-back into the firing pin hole. Same for the 50BMG cases with bushed primers. Also, all cases had easy extraction with little resistance, and could be replaced back into the chambers, and the action closed.

update


This time the velocities were a bit low, so tomorrow I'll increase the loads ever so slightly. I'm going to try 95g and 97.5g of 5744 powder.

Needless to say, I was absolutely surprised with today's results. Keep in mind that this was fired from a rifle that was assembled by a gunsmith that mathematically calculated the convergence. No actual shooting regulation was done. I guess you can see why he is a "Master Gunsmith".

Here are the targets:







update

Here is today's shooting ... I had a young man with me (shooter no. 2) who wanted to try his hand. I've pretty much got 1500fps bracketed. Next time it will be testing a 95.5g load. Boy, these $3.60 projectiles are a bummer.









Well, I'm back from today's shooting. Since yesterday's loads showed velocities slightly above my desired velocity of 1500fps, I cut back on the powder.

I've finally tweaked the load to my 1500fps goal.

Looks like the second shot is repeatably just a tad high.



Aaron said he'll be able to bring the left barrel down a bit. It will be interesting to see his targets. I'll bet they're "snake eyes" and better than mine.

In addition to measuring velocity, I also took some time to carefully "target" the loads.

With the load having been developed for 1500 fps, the rifle was sent back to Aaron for regulating and completing.

update

He received the rifle today, and here's his progress report to me.
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The entire group measures about 1-15/16" at 35 yards. That would be 2-3/4" at 50 yards. The last 2 shots, R3 & L3, ( snake-eyes ) measure about 1-9/16" center to center. That would be just over 2" at 50 yds. which would be great.

Now all I have to do is patiently wait for all the final finishing. I'll be keep you posted as more information comes available.

April 2016

Well, the 700 NE Double Rifle finally arrived back home to Wisconsin yestereday; 4/5/16. Total build time was just over 5 months. That's remarkable! But I think Aaron Little went above and beyond as a fovor to me. I expect a build of this type would normally run 6 - 9 months. Tha's more realistic for such a project.

The finished weight of the rifle with its 28" barrels is 18 pounds 1-1/2 ouces empty, and 18 pounds 10 ounces loaded.

Balance point is "exactly" centered on the hinge when loaded.

Fit and Finish are amazing, and I expect its Aaron's attention to detail that defines him as a Master Gunsmith. My pictures don't do it justice. Hopefully, tomorrow I'll get some nice weather so I can shoot it.

Compare these pictures with the ones posted earlier; during the builr, and now after.































update

I got out to the range yesterday. It was COLD - temp was right at 34 degrees with sleet.

However, I managed to shoot 3 targets and get some data. Needless to say; I'm pleased with Aaron's regulation. I think you'll agree.

Tommorrow I'll start trying some higher velocity loads. But I have to be careful in this COLD weather so I don't BREAK.







And, tommorrow is here.

It was not a very nice day at the range today. Temperature was 30 degrees - Wind was in my face at 20mph - and it was snowing an inch per hour.

I had to cover the chronograph between strings to keep the light screens clear.

So .... I stayed with AA5744 powder to keep the powder weight down. (powder weight is a factor in gun recoil) Estimated data was obtained from AA last year and I also used some of my earlier measured velocities as a guide to load the following.

I fired 4 shots with each and recorded ave velocity and group size. All were shot at 50 yards.

110g = 1680 ave vel - 2-1/4"
115g = 1780 ave vel - 2-3/8"
120g = 1840 ave vel - 1-1/4"
125g = 1940 ave vel - 1-5/8"

I used the 100yd folding leaf rear sight because yesterday the standing leaf printed low near the bottom edge of the target and I wanted to get the groups up higher for measuring. I'll dial-in the sights as needed once I settle on a load.

Let me start by saying this; I'm the first to admit that I'm not man enough to shoot a lot of these high velocity loads. I'll be saving them for when I'm in imminent danger of being eaten or stomped to death. They really kick the crap out of you.

As I recorded the data for each string, I made note of the increasing recoil level. However, after firing the first 2 brutal shots of the 125g load, the next 2 shots were drastically lower in recoil. I was a bit confued as to why that would be until I noted the low chronograph readings in the 1500fps range. I had accidentally grabbed two of my regulating cartridges from yesterday that were loaded with only 95.5g of powder.

I then fired the last 2 of the 125g load into the same target so it had a 6 shot group instead of only 4. The first 3 targets were great, but the last target tells it all. I think you'll agree.

I'm not sure if any time too soon I'm going to push that last load up by 3 grains just to squeeze out 2000fps. I think 1940fps with 8,360 ft/lbs of energy should do fine for any dinosaur that might be encountered here in Wisconsin. If I do shoot a 2000fps load, (8,880 ft/lbs) I'll post the data here.

All things considered, I'm so very pleased with how this rifle build turned out. I don't think I could have expected more.

A big "Thank You" to Aaron Little. Aaron told me that this was his first 700NE - I'm sure he'll be building more.



update

When I received the rifle back from Aaron on Tuesday April 7th, my daughter took some photos of my shooting. This was when I tested the 1500fps regulation loads that are posted on the previous page with the 3 targets. It was cold, damp, freezing drizzle, and miserable, but I couldn't resist shooing the rifle now that it was finally finished.

For those interested, I'll go through my shooting procedure. A short video at the end shows a 4 shot sequence being fired and the data being recorded. The ugly old man in the red hat is me. Keep in mind I'm shooting the "low velocity" regulation loads.

The set-up is rather simple. I place a stool on top of the shooting bench with spacers and a boat cushion to achieve the correct height for shooting from a standing position. I shoot the rifle supported with my left hand under the gun, resting the back of my hand on the cushion to keep steady. The chronograph is placed 15 feet in front of the muzzle, in-line with the targets at 50 yards.

Binoculars on the bench at the right are used to see the chronograph readings because my old eyes can't focus clearly at 15 feet anymore. The spotting scope on the left is on another stool and used to see the bullet holes on the target. The shot position and sequence with velocity readings are recorded on the note card. I also manually double check the chronograph readings by sequencing through the shots, and I also record the standard deviation. Then I walk down range to measure the groups. I do this procedure between shot strings and wait about 10 minutes for the rifle to cool before shooting the next shot string.










My daughter couldn't resist a "selfy" with her old man. Don't I look happy?



After shooting, I'm back in the warm club house, I look a bit haggered from the cold and the 16 shot pounding, but I'm happy as can be with my new toy.




Here is the link to the video. Feel free to comment.

CLICK > > > > > > > > > > > 700NE Shooting Video


update

Well, I made it out to the range again today and my daughter video taped me firing "Full House Loads" in the 700NE. I can assure you it will be quite a while before I do that again. I'm not a glutton for punishment. But I did up the load to 128g AA5744 in hopes of obtaining 2000fps.

I couldn't find any place that sold shooting goves, so I puchased a "pair" of Golf Gloves for today's test. (they aren't really sold in "pairs", you have to buy a "right" and "left" separately - golphers?) The gloves really helped in hanging onto the rifle. They are made of very thin leather and really "grip" the stock. Only on shot number 3 did the gun slip control slightly. Only problem with the gloves is that they are "White" - so someday I'll have to dye them black or brown so they don't look so girly.

On this day's shooting I didn't interrupt my shooting cadence with record keeping. My daughter watched through the spotting scope and recorded the shot sequence, and I downloaded the chronograph velocities after I was done shooting.

WOW ..! You can see my face in the video - I'm not doing much smiling during the punishment phase, but when I walked down to retrieve the target, I grinned from ear to ear.

Here is the video link > > > > > > > Shooting the 700NE with Full Loads < < < < < < < Here is the video link

Today's target.


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"FINI"


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 18268
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #280806 - 13/04/16 02:04 AM

What an involved process - well done, with everything!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1434
Loc: Finland
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #280808 - 13/04/16 02:11 AM

Seems that you really like those big caliber rifles so I suggest that you next acguisition would be this:

It's finnish L-39 anti-tank rifle designed by Aimo Lahti. It´s caliber is 20 mm x 138 mm ( bullet diameter .787", case lenght 5,5") so it´s recoil shoud be enough even for yours shoulders....



--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 1460
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Igorrock]
      #280814 - 13/04/16 06:30 AM

Very interesting project and very detailed article. Well done, the gun looks good.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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LesLeeSpeed
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Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #280817 - 13/04/16 09:10 AM

Hi Buckstix,
I have been following this build on the other forum, and you have certainly put paid to the Doubting Thomases.
Congratulations on a successful project. You may have changed the process of regulating double rifles.
The recoil is certainly impressive, and the accuracy is absolutely wonderful. I wish I could shoot my 500NE that well.
Congratulations on a great report.
LesLeeSpeed


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buckstix
.375 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 652
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
      #280822 - 13/04/16 11:09 AM

Hello Daryl S,
Hello Igorrock,
Hello Waidmannsheil,
Hello LesLeeSpeed,

Thanks for the reply.

This has been a very fun project / experiment. I'm very pleased with the results and the fine quality rifle built by Aaron Little. I think I'm going to have a lot of fun with it and will be using it for deer hunting here in Wisconsin this Fall.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 18268
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #280823 - 13/04/16 11:27 AM

I just watched the video - that does not look like a lot of fun. Getting that monster moving that fast in recoil and you then have to stop it.

OUCH - I could not do that any more.

Hope your retinas stay where they are supposed to reside. Those softer loads look like they might be just fine, in the mid 1,500fps range.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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buckstix
.375 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 652
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Daryl_S]
      #280825 - 13/04/16 12:10 PM

Hello Daryl S

Thanks for the reply,

As far as those Maximum Loads go, as I said above; "I'll be saving them for when I'm in imminent danger of being eaten or stomped to death."

They are not fun. But I had to shoot them to prove / disprove my 75% reverse regulation experiment.

On the other hand, the 75% loads are stiff, but still a lot of fun. I could shoot them all day long.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Shackleton
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 203
Loc: Iowa
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #280827 - 13/04/16 12:38 PM

Rifle's looking great-I just might have to take you up on the offer to shoot it and make the drive-looks like about 4.5 hours for me.


One question-do you ever make your way to NE IA(Decorah area)? Looking at your photos and video I think I recognize you from somewhere.

--------------------
"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King


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4seventyModerator
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2145
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #280828 - 13/04/16 03:01 PM

buckstix,
Really enjoyed watching those videos, and thankyou for posting them.
That is some serious recoil there, no doubt about it!
You did extremely well shooting such a good group with those full power loads.
Very well done!


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 28019
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: 4seventy]
      #280835 - 13/04/16 04:40 PM

Wow, thanks for posting buckstix. What an involved process starting with the making of the brass. Did Bruce Bertram have none in stock here in Oz? I never saw (I believe) your original post looking for brass or did not note it.

Wonderful shooting too. Great regulation and even pre-regulation groups.

I recalculated your recoil figures and the 2000 fps loads deliver close to 90% more recoil than the 1500 fps loads. he 2000 fps loads are around 95 to 100 ft lbs. The 1500 fps loads look far more manageable and enjoyable. The others must hurt.

Hope you get to take the rifle out for some hog hunting and some other beasties in Africa deserving such a rifle. Any plans for a big beastie safari?

Good luck and thanks again for posting.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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buckstix
.375 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 652
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: NitroX]
      #280846 - 13/04/16 11:23 PM

Hello Shackleton,
Thanks for the reply,

You are more than Welcome to come up and shoot, any time. All I need is a day's notice.

Hello 4seventy,
Thanks for the reply,

I'm having a lot of fun with this rifle. Its already approaching favorite status.

Hello NitroX,
Thanks for the reply,

Bruce said he would run some brass when he found some spare time. I imagine there are not a lot of 700NE shooters out there.

I use this link to calculate recoil. http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

The 1500fps loads are at 70 ft/lbs recoil and the 2000fps loads are at 123 ft/lbs recoil. The 70 ft/lb load is a lot more fun.

I'm pretty sure I'll only be hunting paper elephants and paper cape buffalo, and such. Unless I can find someone that will trade a dangerous game hunt for guns.

And like I did last year with my VC 600NE, I will be using this one for Wisconsin Whitetail this Fall.

update

Yesterday I had my first disappointing failure. I was planning on taking this 700NE Turkey hunting today, so yesterday it I loaded up some shells with 2-1/4 ounces of #5 shot with my standard 1500fps charge of 95.5g AA5744 powder. The 2-1/4 ounce payload equals 382 pellets. I used a 16ga over the powder plastic wad, filled the case with shot, and put an over-the-shot card on top. Then I gave it a hard crimp.

That 2-1/4 oz grain payload of 5's is the same weight as a .700 bullet.

I fired the first barrel from 25 yards. Recoil was about the same as using a bullet. However, I didn't see a lot of pellet holes. So, I moved closer and fired the left barrel from only 20 yards away. That's the typ. range I've had success with my shotgun. This was a complete and total failure.

Those 2 shots totalled 764 pellets, however only 17 pellets hit the paper - and none of them were even close to the Turkey. You can see the 17 holes (circled) on the target. I would have thought that with such a large payload of shot, there woud have been more pellets that made it to the target, inspite of the twist of the rifling. Not so!



When I got back to the bench, I looked down the bores and found a lot of residual leading at about 10" ahead of the chamber in each barrel.

I grabbed a couple of my 1500fps loads with the 1000g Woodleigh Soft Points, and proceded to fire a pair of shots in hopes of "shooting-out" some of the leading. With nothing but the Turkey target set-up at 50 yards, I took careful aim and put the front bead right on his head.

Unfortunately, here in Wisconsin you can only hunt Turkeys with "shot" and not bullets. Darn! So, I took my antique 1885 Hopkins & Allen falling block shotgun this morning, and left the 700NE at home. And, once again I've proven that you can use a fine antique shotgun for Turkey hunting, and be just as unsuccesful as using a modern shotgun.



By the way, I used to say that most double rifle groups were measured by minute of "pie plate". This one seem to shoot minute of "Turkey-face".

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #280861 - 14/04/16 08:00 AM

If I may suggest you may try backing off your powder. Also fiber wads might work better. I don't think I would give up.

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buckstix
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Posts: 652
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Wayne59]
      #280871 - 14/04/16 11:53 AM

Hello Wayne59,

Thanks for the reply.

Thanks, but I think I'll stick with solid bullets for this one.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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sbs470
.333 member


Reged: 15/04/04
Posts: 305
Loc: Sheffield Tasmania
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #280945 - 15/04/16 08:10 AM

Is that the Bristol shooting range ( Kenosha conservation club) where you are shooting?

good luck


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buckstix
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Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: sbs470]
      #280957 - 15/04/16 11:40 AM

Hello sbs470,

Thanks for the reply.

No not Bristol. Its the Appleton Rifle & Pistol Club, in Appleton, Wisconsin.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Watson577
.300 member


Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 132
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia USA
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #282504 - 17/05/16 06:21 AM

buckstix,

A friend sent me a link to this thread because of the 50 BMG to 700 NE conversion. I might just use your method to make cases for the 16-bore Holland & Holland since the cases are almost identical in size. I have to say that I am seriously impressed with your ability to shoot this behemoth! I hope that one day I'll be able to shoot like that.

Regards,

Jim


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Watson577
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Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Watson577]
      #282505 - 17/05/16 06:25 AM

buckstix,

A friend sent me a link to this thread because of the 50 BMG to 700 NE conversion that you developed. I think that I might use this method to make cases for the Holland & Holland 16-bore that I have. Surprisingly, the cartridge cases are nearly identical in size.

I have to say that I am seriously impressed with your ability to shoot your 700 NE so well! I hope to one day at least get close to doing so well with my double rifles.

Regards,

Jim


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202T
.224 member


Reged: 05/08/15
Posts: 19
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Watson577]
      #282522 - 17/05/16 12:43 PM

Great story. Thx for that. Love to see a video of it being fired

--------------------
Mans got to know his limitations


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lonewulf
.300 member


Reged: 06/08/12
Posts: 227
Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: 202T]
      #282527 - 17/05/16 01:50 PM

Very impressive. The accuracy is about all anyone could reasonably ask for. Amazing build.

This may have been covered already but, is it your intention to refine the stock at all? I appreciate that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and all of that, and it's really none of my business but I can't help thinking the rifle would benefit significantly if the forend were to be trimmed down to 'British' dimensions.

Again, this is just my opinion but I can't help thinking that the beaver tail forend should have stayed where it belonged, back in the '60s. That rifle of yours would look really smart with a nicely proportioned English splinter.

Edited by lonewulf (17/05/16 01:51 PM)


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buckstix
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Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: lonewulf]
      #282582 - 18/05/16 02:10 PM

Hello Watson57,

Thanks for the reply.

I load for a 16 bore Vogel-Schiessen using Magtec 16 ga brass. Not sure if that might be an option for you.

.
.

Hello 202T

Thanks for the reply.

I have a more detailed post on another accurate reloading forum. (not sure if I'm allowed to link to it from here) It shows a lot more detail including how I make my own .700 cal jacketed bullets by using copper cups made for plumbing.

There I have a link to this video of my shooting the 700NE with full loads. (also linked above in previous post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pdNrMCKsfk&feature=youtu.be

.
.

Hello lonewulf,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, maybe someday when I'm shooting it less, I'll have the forend redone to a semi-splinter shape. Although it was suggested by Aaron Little while he was building, I didn't want to delay its completion.

The stock itself is a perfect fit for me. It has just the right amount of drop to convert some of the heavy recoil into muzzle lift, without having it point at the moon at the end of the recoil cycle. Too little "lift" results in straight-back recoil which is much more felt into the shoulder.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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202T
.224 member


Reged: 05/08/15
Posts: 19
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #282584 - 18/05/16 03:12 PM

Thx Buckstix, enjoyed the video.

--------------------
Mans got to know his limitations


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500Boswell
.375 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 917
Loc: Queensland
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: 202T]
      #282586 - 18/05/16 04:47 PM

All you need now buckstix is an 8 Bore double ! Jones under lever hammer gun !

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5486
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: 500Boswell]
      #282587 - 18/05/16 07:23 PM

DAMN!


https://www.google.com/search?q=700+nitr...vPInp0ATG_57oDA

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: gryphon]
      #282630 - 19/05/16 06:55 AM

Hello 202T,

Thanks for the reply.

.
.

Hell 500Boswell,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't think an 8-Bore Double Rifle is in my future. The 700NE is all I can handle.

.
.

Hello gryphon,

Thanks for the reply.

I agree!

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: QLd, Australia
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #316394 - 15/05/18 12:28 PM

Great gun! Wish 10 gauges were as easy to come by over here! I have a BP proof one and the only reason I have it was I bought it as a 12g and it ended up being 10 (??). But it’s not nitro proofed.

Hopefully one day I can build a .700 for myself.

--------------------
.


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 18268
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Ash]
      #316395 - 15/05/18 01:05 PM

As it is, it is a .774 BPE - why would you want a little .700, Ash?

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: QLd, Australia
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Daryl_S]
      #316544 - 19/05/18 10:20 AM

Quote:

As it is, it is a .774 BPE - why would you want a little .700, Ash?




Because .774 is too big for me :P

Nah, I’d just like a “proper” .700 nitro.

--------------------
.


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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Ash]
      #316927 - 30/05/18 07:48 AM

Quote:

Nah, I’d just like a “proper” .700 nitro.




Hello Ash,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, good thinking.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Aaron_Little
.275 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 84
Loc: Newark, TX
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: buckstix]
      #316985 - 01/06/18 02:16 PM

You really did an awesome job on this build thread!

--------------------
A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC.
Michael08TDK@yahoo.com
682-554-0044


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buckstix
.375 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 652
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 700NE Project - Custom Build Complete Story - Shooting Video [Re: Aaron_Little]
      #317638 - 30/06/18 02:39 PM

Quote:

You really did an awesome job on this build thread!




Hello Aaron,

That's because you did an awesome job on this build!

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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