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Guys, any extimate of value?

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John, I wish I could help out with an estimate, but I'm not really up to date with current pricing on DR's.

Curl or Huvius and others, might be able to suggest a current value for insurance purposes?

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Priceless mate.....you can't put a dollar value on history!
You have the genuine article in your safe at home, the real McCoy with photos to prove it.
With care of it & will out last your kids!
Shame you never had the ivory still - how much would that be would now-a-days?
Make sure you have it in your will to go to family that appreciate what you really have.
Would be a tragedy to see it just thrown away as you see all to often.
Hope to see photos of what this old girl can do on the range & game of more recent times!
93x64mm

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Exactly!
I hesitate to offer advice on pricing an heirloom such as this for precisely the reasons stated above.
For insurance purposes, just peruse the market and price it according to what you see offered that is similar. Then maybe add 25%.
Bear in mind that if it were to be lost or stolen, NO money or rifle will ever truly replace it. Its value to you will never be equaled.

Now, back to the rifle.
You have already tapped into the best resource on the web and you being in NZ will surely get the help needed from members here to get the Lancaster shooting again. Hopefully shipping from Oz to NZ isn't too difficult as I would expect there to be a few shooting the No.2 there.
The 450 No.2 is a big case and a bit of an odd man out in the 450 group but what class! Even loaded down, just dropping those huge cartridges into the chambers and leveling the sights on target is an event!

One option is to find 475 No.2 brass and start with that. Probably not any less expensive, but I'd wager that Kynoch did produce a lot more of it than the 450 so maybe easier to find. The case specs are a little different but I do believe I have heard of it being used.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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I have a Westly Richards single shot built on a Deely and edge action that shoots that round. Got everything needed to shoot it from Buffalo Arms. Don't know if they can ship to Australia.

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I'm thinking your Westley is chambered for the 500/450 No.2 Musket cartridge.
Totally different animal to the 450No.2 Nitro Express.

500/450 No.2 Musket on left. 475No.2 Nitro on the right (at least close to the 450 No.2)


Please tell us about your Westley!

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... Oval bore... marked .450 EX 3 1/2" CASE 80 grns Cordite 480 grn max

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I ASSUME THIS IS THE SAME CHAMBERING??? NOT SURE WHAT THE RIGBY #2 IS. ??? IF NOT PLEASE DISREGARD.

.450 No. 2 NE cases were $7 each from Bertram last time I bought some. One of the more expensive cases. I would purchase more than twekve if I was you to allow load development ie enough different loads to try at a sitting.

In my .450 No.2 NE (3 1/2" case) I use 105 gr of AR2213SC with a foam filler for a 480 Gr Woodleigh RNSP or FMJ. I would suggest starting with a lighter load. 105Gr works well in my Jeffery DB rifle. I think I started at about 98 grs to 110 grs. 105 grs regulated best. A filler MUST be used as the case is nowhere near full enough and without a filler would be potentially dangerous ie hangfires.

I suggest you purchased a copy of Graeme Wright's "Shooting the British Double Rifle". I have some in stock for sale and can post to you if you are interested. The Bible for shooting these sorts of rifles.

Use a chronograph when test shooting loads. And don't exceed the normal range of velocity expected, ie around 2100 fps to 2200 fps for a 480 gr projectile. The pressure signs won't be apparent on a double rifle and if present the pressure may already be too great. I did not notuce any with the range I mentioned.

NO LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY IS ACCEPTED OR IMPLIED BY MYSELF OR NITROEXPRESS.COM. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK AND DISCRETION.

Good luck with your rifle and a great family heirloom. Any more historic photos please post.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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By doubleriflejack

Within this thread, 4seventy wrote: "The action is of the assisted opening type."
Rockdoc wrote: "The self opening action is, like Purdey's, a bit of a knack to close."
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Rockdoc is correct, while 4seventy is not. It is, indeed, a self opener; not an assisted opener. Many guys consider the self opener the same as an assisted opener, but they are not the same. Many more guys don't know the difference between the two, though they should learn, and stop spreading wrong information on websites.
Many people, including some who should know better, get self openers and easy openers confused; some don't know the difference between the two.


Only four true self openers have ever been developed and made in numbers: 1. the first and most significant by Frederick Beesley (his first design used, of course, by Purdey right up to the present day); his second concept, a modification of his original design, used by Charles Lancaster

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Beesley invented two systems for self cocking, spring cocking, and added assisted opening as well to these actions. One of these two spring powered self cocking systems he sold to Purdey; the other he himself used on his guns, as did other gun makers, mostly Lancaster,.....

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Now who was it who posted that? . Wait a minute, it was someone called........ doubleriflejack!!
It was in fact you!!

Here it is.



Edited by 4seventy (02/05/16 06:13 PM)

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So, I didn't express my thoughts very well, but, as a former U.S. President, Richard Nixon, once said, "I know what I meant," LOL. I know the difference between self openers and assisted openers, regardless of my making a mistake in verbalizing it, while, obviously others who think they know the difference, don't. Wisdom shows that those who know the least, anger very quickly when one tries to correct them!

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Maybe a different tone, and manner of making a statement might have a different result from the one fully expected and anticipated.

Excellent come back by Alan though.

Please take your fight elsewhere.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (03/05/16 07:58 AM)

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I do not anticipate hunting with this caliber....nothing in my country needs even half that grunt to knock it over.
And if i did hunt anything dangerous like a buffalo in Aussie i'd want a scope to help my old eyes. (The front sight is very fine).

I just want to make it go BANG BANG.
That will add to the buzz when holding it and looking at Grandads photos!

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I would consider making up a dozen or so loaded rounds for you at tremendous cost (!!! actually would be quite pricey considering how much they cost to make, and how much commercially purchased NE rounds go for!!!) so you don't need to reload, but there is the difficulty of gettng loaded rounds to you in NZ or anywhere by post or other means???

I am usually reluctant to reload for other people as there is the liability risk and no control of how the ammunition is used or the rifle it is used in. Just like I use pull the bullets out of other peoples handloads, throw away the powder and recharge myself. For the opposite reason of not knowing if they are reliable.

No idea if the rounds would regulate in your rifle. I would probably make up some 100grs AR2213SC loads (as said mine regulates with 105 grs) with a foam filler, which at least would go bang. No liability would be accepted, and I would be building up the loads at your instruction and per your 'recipe'. Maybe someone in NZ could help you? Or if you know someone in SA willing to have them dropped off to them. Unfortunately exporting live ammunition even via a airline passenger also requires approval and declaration at customs.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (03/05/16 08:08 AM)

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I have a Westly Richards single shot built on a Deely and edge action that shoots that round. Got everything needed to shoot it from Buffalo Arms. Don't know if they can ship to Australia.

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I'm thinking your Westley is chambered for the 500/450 No.2 Musket cartridge.
Totally different animal to the 450No.2 Nitro Express.

500/450 No.2 Musket on left. 475No.2 Nitro on the right (at least close to the 450 No.2)


Please tell us about your Westley!

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BTW I hadn't noticed this post before.

I have to say the "oval bore" comment does not sound like a .450 No.2 NE. Unless some other gentlemen on here could correct me, I doubt the .450 No.2 NE was made with an oval bore. Which sounds like an earlier cartridge.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (03/05/16 08:26 AM)

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