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gallipliphile
.224 member


Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value?
      #280771 - 12/04/16 11:07 AM

Hi Team.

New member here... wrestling with the computer...

Need to learn more about this rifle for interest and for insurance.

Family hierloom, has been a companion to Grandad in Africa....made for him at Lancasters shop.

Oval bore... marked .450 EX 3 1/2" CASE 80 grns Cordite 480 grn max.

Solid tight lock up... looks to be perfectly safe to use.

My dad said Grandad told him it was 1 of a pair.... Grandad must have needed money one sad day?

Can't find anything like it on the net.

Lots of photos of it harvesting animals in the 1920's.

Regards



Edited by gallipliphile (12/04/16 03:26 PM)


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280772 - 12/04/16 11:19 AM

What a nice family heirloom. Your are lucky to have it.

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gallipliphile
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Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280774 - 12/04/16 11:32 AM

I know little about it.
Looks to have a different build to other Lancasters i have seen on the net... very solid "cheeks" on the sides of the action.

Was always in it's case under my folks bed.

Allways just called "The elephant gun".

It has harvested them and Rhino and Cats.

Edited by gallipliphile (12/04/16 11:35 AM)


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LesLeeSpeed
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Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280781 - 12/04/16 01:23 PM

Hi Gallipliphile,
Welcome.
That is really nice!!! The action is unusual with that beefed up rear, but should be very strong.
How about sharing some of the photos from Africa. I'm sure that many of the members would love to see them.
LesLeeSpeed


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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280785 - 12/04/16 01:43 PM

Hi gallipliphile, Welcome to NE!
You have a very nice double there. The extended top tang is cool.
Is it possible to post photos of the proof marks on the barrel flats, and we sure would love to see some of those 1920's hunting photos.
Thanks.

Hopefully CptCurl will chime in here, and may be able to give some information on your Lancaster.


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gallipliphile
.224 member


Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: 4seventy]
      #280788 - 12/04/16 03:28 PM

...i have put a couple more pics up... i'll look for more tommorrow.

Note the slip-on pad. And that was when the red rubbr pad was soft! It is like rock now

My folks have most of them but aren't nearby.

Regards

Edited by gallipliphile (12/04/16 03:31 PM)


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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280829 - 13/04/16 03:13 PM

They're awesome photos, thanks for posting them.
The English proofs on the barrel flats appear to be from between 1904 and 1925.
The gun appears to actually have been built by Lancaster in England, and as Huvius has noted on the other forum, the action is of the assisted opening type. This system can also be found on other Lancaster guns. It was originally a Beesley design.
It's a nice double and chambered for a very highly regarded cartridge, the 450 NE No2.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: 4seventy]
      #280833 - 13/04/16 03:56 PM

Guys, any extimate of value?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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gallipliphile
.224 member


Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: NitroX]
      #280839 - 13/04/16 08:19 PM

Hey thanks for that info... any more would be gratefully recieved. Grandad left England in 1922, so that adds up.

When u open the gun from cocked it does jump open... and is hard to shut... fighting those assisting springs mentioned.

I have no snap caps or ammo so cannot comment on opening it once fired.
Can anyone help with a source of cases and suitable projectiles... in quantities less than 100?

FYI it has a 100 sight and 300 flip up leaf.

Found a couple more photos... bearers holding ivory but not with the gun.
. Will post tommorrow

Regards




Hi...it's tomorrow

Photos added via editing... only way i kno...

One photo showing Grandad with a Mauser with full rib... and a lot of ivory.



Edited by gallipliphile (14/04/16 08:30 PM)


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Rockdoc
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Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1212
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280842 - 13/04/16 10:09 PM

Lovely and very interesting rifle.

Wonder where the partner went?

You can buy the brass from Bertram here in Aus and the projectiles for the 450 Nitro from Woodleigh agents.

The self opening action is, like Purdey's, a bit of a knack to close!

Cheers, Chris


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Rockdoc
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Reged: 07/12/06
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: Rockdoc]
      #280843 - 13/04/16 10:18 PM

Also you can find loading data in Graeme Wright's "Shooting the British Double Rifle", a must for double rifle owners IMHO.
Also the data is in the Woodleigh Bullets Loading Manual.

You can buy Grame's book here on Nitro Express.

Cheers, Chris


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4seventy
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: NitroX]
      #280879 - 14/04/16 12:52 PM

Quote:

Guys, any extimate of value?



John, I wish I could help out with an estimate, but I'm not really up to date with current pricing on DR's.

Curl or Huvius and others, might be able to suggest a current value for insurance purposes?


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gallipliphile
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Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: 4seventy]
      #280891 - 14/04/16 08:39 PM

More photos added to earlier post. One with mauser that is long gone. And unidentified sadly..

My buddies (who are itching to shoot the rifle) have made inquiries to Bertrams... they were told cases would only be sold by the hundred. But there's not many elephants here, so we only need a handfull.

Kynoch will supply small lots but not export we hear. An English mate did go back home (twice)recently,but to bury his parents so didn't get any cartridges.
I forgave him. Both times. Let them breed up i said. (Elephants that is).

I do have that book on loan from a kind Chap, who advised the need for suitably constructed projectiles and even gave me an old box end of the ones i need.
So... slowly, learning learning....
But no ammo yet.

...a photo of gun shut, and more booty.

Regards



Edited by gallipliphile (14/04/16 09:09 PM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280931 - 15/04/16 05:40 AM

just helping against neck pain







--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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gallipliphile
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Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: lancaster]
      #280941 - 15/04/16 06:31 AM

Good work thank you.

NB; a couple of years ago my folks decided to sell a Black Rhino horn that was gathered by Grandad in 1926. Legal to sell because the hunting permit was with it, dating it pre CITES.
It had always been a doorstop in their home but recently they saw it as a security risk and put it out of sight.

It reached over $70,000 NZD at auction.

Edited by gallipliphile (15/04/16 06:36 AM)


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Well_Well_Well
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Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 305
Loc: Australia
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280947 - 15/04/16 08:39 AM

I'd love to help you out, but I can't scratch together more than about $3k ;-P

Capt Curl will be able to help you with value, or possibly Cal Pappas. Watch out for that Curl though, he's got a habit of adding rare and very, very nice doubles to his collection with monotonous regularity!

Bertram will be able to provide brass with correct head stamp, get 100, you'll have people begging you for a sample for their collections and you can make some snap caps out of a pair. woodleigh projectiles will work well on those rampaging wekas...

From the photos it appears to be a fabulous rifle still, with a little care it should provide another 90 or more years of service, congratulations!


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Rockdoc
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Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1212
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #280949 - 15/04/16 09:03 AM

Great photos!

Should be able to buy less than a 100. I wonder if I can get them and send to you?

Was the hundred limit direct from Bruce Bertram? I have bought much less than that number previously. I would hazard a guess they are about AUD5 here, so buying a hundred if you don't need that many is a fair whack of money. When I reloaded some for my 600NE single that is being built, I bought about a dozen cases from Bruce, some time ago. Gave a couple away to collectors and the rest seem to have gone missing!

Let me know if you would like me to enquire from Bruce.

Cheers,

Chris


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gallipliphile
.224 member


Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: Rockdoc]
      #280954 - 15/04/16 11:01 AM

If u could get some brass, that would be much appreciated thank you Chris!

As i'm not anticipating a safari... i think a dozen cases would be plenty?

Is that red rubber available these days?
...bags NOT shooting it as-is :/

Would be nice to mint the old thing up again.
I'm getting old (and crusty) and have been fixing guns for a living for a few years now, so hopefully my skills are of a suitable standard.

Could always temporarily fit a limbsaver, but getting the old one off may destroy it.
So maybe not.

Although the Lancaster is probably worth twice what all my other guns combined would be, i only want a value for insurance purposes... i'll be selling the others 1st if i'm short of milk money.

Regards

Edited by gallipliphile (15/04/16 12:16 PM)


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Rockdoc
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Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1212
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280959 - 15/04/16 12:35 PM

I'll try Bruce and don't worry about the red rubber, should be fine, my old 500/450 31/4" Magnum is, but your loads will be a little stiffer!

Is the LOP right for you? If not a slip on pad will be fine. These don't kick savagely unless it does not fit you well..

Cheers,

Chris


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gallipliphile
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Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: Rockdoc]
      #280964 - 15/04/16 01:50 PM

That "rubber" ain't!
It's now a red rock... shaped like a recoil pad!!!
Let me know how u get on. Thank you.

Regards


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280970 - 15/04/16 05:06 PM

I'll have a guess for you. Recently saw a Lancaster double in 9.3x4 but mint condition. I reckon yours with that history and the assisted opening is worth about GBP7000 (british sterling) but if you had to replace it, it would take some finding so I would go GBP10,000 for insurance, best, Mike

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gallipliphile
.224 member


Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #280971 - 15/04/16 05:45 PM

Hey thank you.
What was the value of th 9.3?

Any link or pic?

I had thought Grandads one might be worth a bit more than that. Even in well used condition. It's no safe queen.
Wishfull thinking maybe, but i saw a few fancy ones on line in th States for huuuge money... and they just looked like shotguns.

The solid action on this one gives me a good feeling.

That makes a Sako safari 375 H&H look expensive.

Lower value suits me... it's not for sale, and less value is less worry.
Am i swayed by colonial sentimentality?... but a classic British maker and cartridge spins my wheels.

Anyone else?

Regards

Edited by gallipliphile (15/04/16 07:06 PM)


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pondoro62
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: gallipliphile]
      #280973 - 15/04/16 07:14 PM

Galli, I think Mike Bailey is spot on both on sale value and insurance value for you rifle..

I have a similar double in .475 from the same time span (another make), a little more upmarked with scroll engraving all over the action and mint barrels. It is insured for GBP 10.000,-

Barrel condition is the most critical parameter for setting a value. As Cal Pappas say (he is a capacity on old doubles..), the only item that cant be fixed on a double is worn/rusty barrels..

Due to the present decline in African hunting, due to low oil price and lots of bad press against hunting, workin man double rifles do not sell so easily...

Top end doubles sell like hotcakes....but they are put away for investment..


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gallipliphile
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Reged: 26/03/16
Posts: 21
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: pondoro62]
      #280974 - 15/04/16 08:26 PM

Again... Thank you.

That takes some pressure off.

I had thought it might be worth zillions, and that would be a problem.

Barrels are good. A very few light pits half way down one bore. But very good.... say a 9 out of 10. Other barrel is a 10.

I read another thread on here regarding Makers, and learned about the current owners of the Lancaster name.
I will contact them seeking any info they have on this gun and its brother, and maybe even Grandad.

Regards ))
.


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93x64mm
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Re: Lancaster Double in.450 Rigby #2 ... value? [Re: 4seventy]
      #281009 - 16/04/16 08:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Guys, any extimate of value?



John, I wish I could help out with an estimate, but I'm not really up to date with current pricing on DR's.

Curl or Huvius and others, might be able to suggest a current value for insurance purposes?



Priceless mate.....you can't put a dollar value on history!
You have the genuine article in your safe at home, the real McCoy with photos to prove it.
With care of it & will out last your kids!
Shame you never had the ivory still - how much would that be would now-a-days?
Make sure you have it in your will to go to family that appreciate what you really have.
Would be a tragedy to see it just thrown away as you see all to often.
Hope to see photos of what this old girl can do on the range & game of more recent times!
93x64mm


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