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Rell
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Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
chapuis utility grade?
      #24013 - 13/01/05 09:17 AM

Does any one have or know about the chapuis double rifle in 9.3x74r utility grade. What is the fit and finish like, is it much lower then a PH 1? It seems like a good priece for a medium bore, around 6k USD.

If anyone has a picture I'd like to see it.

Thanks

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24028 - 13/01/05 01:17 PM

I've had one for about 3 years now. They are strong guns, handle well, and are generally well regulated.

As many of the readers of my posts have read, Chapuis sometimes as quality control issues. So you might want to have a gunsmith open the action and check it out if its a used gun (though $6k seems high for a used one). Also check to see what load its been regulated with. Most for the European market are regulated with 232 norma, and most Americans like it with a 286gr bullet.

The fit and finish of the UGEXs I've seen (including mine) is good, but not as nice as the PHs. The PH (and brouse etc) also come with some extras (extra folding leaves etc), nicer engraving etc. Though most I've seen were for the European market, so I'm not sure if the ones here in the US (Champlain, Chaddicks etc) are any different so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I am still working on putting pictures of my guns up, but will try...

Hope this helps!

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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JudgeG
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24029 - 13/01/05 01:25 PM

Here is one for sale on Guns America:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976425486.htm

The seller had it at the Dallas Safari Club show this year (and last year). It seemed to be a really nice rifle. It has an interesting (and not very traditional) rear sight that is fiber optic.

I'll bet that you can get it (and it's new) for somewhat less than the listed price.

A friend has one and claims it to be more accurate than most over-the-counter bolt guns.

--------------------
JudgeG
Old and getting older, I hope. But once I was young.

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DUGABOY1
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: JudgeG]
      #24030 - 13/01/05 01:58 PM

Funny thing, the price on that double is $5975, but the price on the tag on the trigger guard is $5195! I' offer $5K flat for it!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Chasseur
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #24048 - 14/01/05 01:07 AM

Dugaboy is right on the money. A new UGEX should be right at $5,000 in the US (though they go for less in Europe).

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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Rusty
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24050 - 14/01/05 01:15 AM

NE450#2 has a Chapuis 9.3X74R and I know he is very pleased with his rifle.

I'm sure he'd post , however he's off hunting hogs with his PH in North Texas.


--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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zimhunter
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24053 - 14/01/05 02:34 AM

Had UGEX for several years. VERY accurate with all factory ammo, RWS,NORMA,SELLIER&BELLOIT and all my handloads with Nosler partitions and Woodleigh softs and solids. Put Ruger bases on and used 1.5x5 Leupold. My favorite of all the doubles I've had over the years. Wish I had not sold it. It did kick with authority though. It was extremely light weight. Marvelous handling. I would buy another in a heartbeat.

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new_guy
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24054 - 14/01/05 02:40 AM

FYI -
The "Utility Grade" is what Chaddick's used to call the "Brousse." So they are the same gun. The difference between the Brousse and the "PH1" is the engraving and maybe a better grade of wood. But the Brousse is available in any grade wood, so I'd say that comes down to your personal likes & dislikes of an individual piece.

The Brousse has mostly roll-stamp or impressed type engraving, where the PH1 is hand engraved. Other than that, they're identical. Fit, Finish, regulation, etc... they're the same. "PH1" was never a Chapuis designation for the grade... It's a Chaddick's designation for a hand-engraved Brousse.

As to the price... I strongly suggest you call these guys. I've purchased from them (saved over $2K from Chaddicks) and believe you will be well pleased in the price of a new one as compared to the used one you're looking at.

Heirloom Armes

His name is Dale Nygaard

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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zimhunter
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: new_guy]
      #24073 - 14/01/05 08:09 AM

Don't know what Chaddicks called it but mine was marked by Chapuis UGEX which my understanding stood for "utility grade express". I think you will also find the UGEX is a single underlug and the PH is a double underlug. It was roll engraved. Mine had upgraded wood and was really quite nice, although I really never liked the rear sight.

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Rusty
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: zimhunter]
      #24074 - 14/01/05 08:11 AM

Check this link out. . .
GunsAmerica-Chapuis NIB

What a deal!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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zimhunter
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24075 - 14/01/05 08:24 AM

I just checked Chapuis website and they show the UGEX as a classic model. Their specs say DOUBLE underhooks but mine was single underlug. That was about 9 or 10 years ago. I sold it last year. 9.3x 74R is upper end of the UGEX grade. The next is the professional series that goes into the BIG bores. The UGEX is made in extractor models (as mine was) or ejector models. The only options are straight gripand single trigger.

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Chasseur
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: new_guy]
      #24091 - 14/01/05 10:56 AM

At least in Chapuis' actual catalog the "brouse" and "utility grade" are not the same gun. "Utility grade" express, or UGEX, is their classic redesign of the SxS double rifle (Orion is their O/U) that they came out with way back in the 1970s. It is chambered in the classic european metric cartridges: 7x65r, 8x57jrs, 9.3x74r, and 30r blaser (well I wouldn't call the 30 blaser classic ). The brouse is their basic model african SxS double rifle in 470, 375, 416. Their are diffecenes (folding leaves, lateral reienforcements on the action, recoil pad, etc). The higher level versions of the african rifle are the Jungle and Savane models. As was mentioned earlier the "PH" is Chaddicks.

Now as many have said before, Chaddicks did "change" and rename the Chapuis offerings when they sold them over here (look at how they used to limit the shotgun offerings to a standard model, when Chapuis come with many options), so maybe they marketed the UGEX as a brouse or vice-versas.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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NE450No2
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Chasseur]
      #24123 - 14/01/05 05:26 PM

I have had a Chapuis Utility Grade SxS in 9,3x74R for about 6.5 years. I bought it at Chaddicks. It is color case hardened. The only difference between a $5000 Chapuis and a $20,000 Chapuis is the engraving and the wood, the mechanics are the same. Some models can be had as an extractor or an ejector. All SxS Chapuis have the double parallel under lug locking system. Under lugs are not the same as the locking bolt.
The Chapuis has a very wide locking bolt.
I have shot several thousand rounds through my 9,3.
I have hunted with it in Texas, Montana, Idaho, Canada, and Africa. I have 2 scopes in QD rings sighted in and ready to go. It shoots very well, from field positions I can shoot it on game as well as any bolt action. I have taken game with it out to a little past 300 yards.
It is my favorite hunting rifle under 40 cal.
I can highly recommend it.

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larcher
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24145 - 15/01/05 12:57 AM

If it can help :


Link to chapuis

Chapuis prices

everything about hunting in France and abroad
sangliers.net





--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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bonanza
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: larcher]
      #24148 - 15/01/05 01:33 AM

I just bought one in 470 and am pleased with it. Very stout action.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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new_guy
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Chasseur]
      #24150 - 15/01/05 02:24 AM

Sorry, I should have been more specific... I was referring to the Chaddick-imposed renaming system as it applied to the Chapuis Safari Grade rifles (300, 375, 416, 470).

My point was that if you purchased a "Utility Grade" in one of those calibers from Chaddick's prior to the last year (at which time he seemed to start calling them the Brousse) - it was a brousse that you got.

To the point of rell's question - i've never seen any quality difference in "fit & finish" from any of the chapuis. Better engraving availaible? Yes. Better wood available? Yes.

Is the blueing or the wood to metal fit or wood finish any better on the higher grades? No, not in my opinion. They all seem to be finished about the same. Which is "good enough" for their price points.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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Chasseur
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: new_guy]
      #24159 - 15/01/05 05:26 AM

Good points new guy (sorry for the mixup). I wondered the same thing when I bought mine.

I'm not sure about the line of guns that gets imported to the US, but Chapuis in their European line offers the option for "artisanal" version of their guns, not just better wood, engraving and sideplate, which are supposed to have high levels of hand finishing on them. I've heard back and forth about whether this means anything practical advantages. But I don't know myself.

Just some thoughts

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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new_guy
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Chasseur]
      #24165 - 15/01/05 08:16 AM

you're right about the extras for Chapuis... from Moustached side clips to about any grade of engraving. they do offer a lot of options. It just seems that no one in the US (the importers) bring them in.

Those extras add up quickly, and it appears that once you get into those options (and their prices) the doors to other guns open up and the chapuis begins to look less atratcive as compared to it's more expensive counterparts.

For my money, the Chapuis in the low, to middle grades represents a great buy in a "shooting" double rifle. That's really thier Sweet Spot. Get into the higher grades and you can probably spend the same money on some better guns.

PS - I've owned 3 of them.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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zimhunter
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24169 - 15/01/05 10:13 AM

The more I read the more confused I become. Does anyone know if Chapuis made a single underlug SxS in the past and if so when. I bought mine used and the person I bought it from said he ordered it new. It came with snap caps made from cut off RWS brass that I believe were made by gunsmith at Importer. If memory serves me it was engraved on rib under forearm "Champlins Firearms" in script. I removed the scope base filler blocks from rib and replaced with custom Ruger blocks using same screw holes. Had to use high rings though cause you couldn't get to lever with low rings. Thoroughly likable rifle. I really miss it. Shot wonderfully. But there was this Heym 375 I just had to have.

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NE450No2
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: zimhunter]
      #24171 - 15/01/05 10:43 AM

zimhunter
Do not confuse "double underlugs" with the "locking bolt".
Chapuis double SxS rifles have 2 parallel "hooks",[underlugs] one under each barrel, where typical double rifles have one "hook" in between the barrels. British, and most other doubles have 2 narrow "bites". The Chapuis has one WIDE "bite"[locking bolt]. Chapuis claims their system along with the design of the reciever is much stronger than the typical British style action.
I will say this, I have fired more than 2 thousand rounds through My 450 No2 [British] and my 9,3 Chapuis. Both are still tight on the face.
I have been told by someone who works on EVERY kind of double rifle that Chapuis are the best of the new made doubles, ie they have the least problems.
I consider my 9,3 Chapuis the best hunting rifle on the planet in its power catagory [medium bore].
In big bore doubles [40+ cal] I prefer British, but IF I was buying a new made double it would be a 470 Chapuis.

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NE450No2
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24173 - 15/01/05 10:53 AM

rell
Get a Chapuis in 9,3x74R, regulated with 286 grain bullets.
You will not regret it.
For all round use you should scope it with quick detachable mounts.
[Actually my Chapuis was regulated with 286 RWS TUG, but it shoots 286, 270 and 232 grain bullets just fine.
For me the 285 Hawk [deer,impala, and pigs with broad side shots], 286 Woodleigh Softs, 286 Nosler Partitions [for EVERYTHING else, except for 286 Woodleigh Solids for buff and elephant in a pinch], are my favorite bullets.

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EricD
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: NE450No2]
      #24215 - 15/01/05 08:20 PM

In reply to:

Do not confuse "double underlugs" with the "locking bolt".
Chapuis double SxS rifles have 2 parallel "hooks",[underlugs] one under each barrel, where typical double rifles have one "hook" in between the barrels. British, and most other doubles have 2 narrow "bites". The Chapuis has one WIDE "bite"[locking bolt]. Chapuis claims their system along with the design of the reciever is much stronger than the typical British style action.




Where would the Demas doubles fit in? It looks to me like they have 3 underlugs.

Erik

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larcher
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24216 - 15/01/05 08:25 PM

BTW : "Chapuis" is an ancient name for Charpentier = Carpenter
"Brousse" means Bush or Outback.


Rell You are asking a pic of a Double Chapuis. Here is my RGEX 9.*74R scoped with a 1.25*4-20 Schmitt & Bender and ultra-low claw mounts.

Almost as nice as JudgeG’s Searcy.
You can see little clearance between the scope and the level, nonetheless, it impeccably works.
Note I display a bottle of wine, just to please a famous John from Wine Country.
You can see 2 pairs of cartridges which don’t match with my 9.3-74R double. The 2 first guessing which calibres they are will be delivered a French bottle of wine.
No malice intended concerning Australian wine, I always keepa couple of Australian wine in my cellar, makes me think it’s getting low.
Good Luck. jb


--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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seroadglide
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #24225 - 16/01/05 02:34 AM

This is my Chapuis. It is not the utility grade, but i will post it anyway. As best I can tell, it most closely approximates the REX; there are some differences from the features described on the Chapuis site. The date in the case indictes manufacture in 1978.

I had been looking at the Merkels and the various doubles posted on the seller sites. The utility grade mentioned above (on GA) has been listed quite a while. IIRC the original price matched the tag. We have some dealers here that when they have a gun in inventory for a long period, they raise the price listed as the price of replacing that stock goes up.

I purchased the Chapuis out of Texas. THe story I got was that it had come from the estate of a double collector; I guess his wife did not have the same love of doubles that he had. There were several other doubles in the store supposedly from the same source, but most were for a lefty. One barrel is marked with what I assume to be the original owner's last name and Austin, Tx.

As for fit/finish, I have no complaint. I do not have another Chapuis to compare it to directly. It is much better than the Merkels I have seen. I am not bashing them; I have a nice handling 20ga Merkel. I will probably get one eventually as the Price of the Merkels seem very good for a user.

Douglas Mays

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: larcher]
      #24227 - 16/01/05 03:33 AM

Is the wine a Chateau Margot?


I think I can guess one of the cartridges, right down to the manufacturer and projectile. The other ....




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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larcher
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: NitroX]
      #24230 - 16/01/05 04:48 AM

Yes it'is Sir, 1982.
Fairly rare, I keep them for family events.
Nonetheless the promised bottles of French wine won't be bad.
Good Luck

Seroadglide,

You have a wonderful REX artisan worth over 9000$. Congratulations!

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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Rell
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: larcher]
      #24474 - 18/01/05 04:34 PM

Thanks all, I've been following the post and I think I'll jump.

I was going to buy a sidelock searcy in 416/500, but for the same money I can get a boxlock searcy in 470 and a chapuis 9.3x74r. My budget is 20-25k USD so I think two shooters it is.

I'm not a collector, just a shooter and hunter. The two should take care of all my needs on my retirment, 30 day safari in 2008. I retired the first time in 2004 at age 29, but the markets looking up and my partners talked me into another office. So the safari will have to wait, but the doules will help ease the pain somewhat.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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Brian
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #25614 - 03/02/05 09:57 PM

I had a 9.3 for about 4 years (until college tuition reared its ugly head). Mine was not a Utility grade nor the higher grade. I ordered mine based on a UGEX with several upgrades; cheepiece, steel grip cap and long tang trigger guard, claw mounts installed with 1.5x6 S&B scope. regulated with scope a sprimary sighting system with Norma 232 gr (I think its that, not the 286 gr) with swivels attached and Decelerator pad added. Gun was ordered with standard wood and what the put on it was fantastic, definitely much nicer than standard but they didnt charge a nickel more for it. Rifle shot two pair into 1.5" at 100 yards with boring consistency. The Sellier & Bellot load would shoot two bullets in a single hole from each barrel but about 5 inches apart at 100 yards. No they didnt cross.
Only drawback was thew rifle was fairly heavy with the scope and mounts but it was such a nice looking rifle i lokked past that aspect.

One note for 9.3 x 74 shooters. I had a chamber insert made to fire the 9mm Markarov pistol cartridge. This rifle would shoot 2 pair (2 from each barrel) into a ragged hole at 25 yards about 6 inches low from the point of aim but dead nuts for windage. Sounded like an air rifle. Very inexpensive practice for 9.3x74.

if I could buy a double rifle right now I would buy another Chapuis.

Note: There was (may still be ) another gunmaker in France named Chapuis that makes double rifles of a different pattern than the known Chapuis. That may explain the one posters question about his not having split lumps like the current Chapuis have.

--------------------
Brian

LTC, IN
Back from Afghanistan
Life Member A.H. Fox Gun Collectors Assoc.
Endowment Member NRA
Delaware County, NY

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bonanza
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Rell]
      #25628 - 04/02/05 05:14 AM

rell, good choice. I have two DRs also, a merkel .375 and a chapuis .470. Here is a picture of a target from my 470.



--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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new_guy
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: bonanza]
      #25636 - 04/02/05 11:43 AM

here's confirmation on the Chapuis. this one in 375.





--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: new_guy]
      #25949 - 09/02/05 03:12 PM

new guy
What bullets were you shooting?
Very good groups. You need to test your Chapuis at 200 and 300 yards.
I have had very good results with my 9,3x74R Chapuis [scoped]at 200 and 300 yards. I have taken a coyote at 271 yards and a kudu at a little over 300 yards.
Doubles are not just for short range hunting.

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new_guy
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: NE450No2]
      #25994 - 10/02/05 03:37 AM

Those were Hornady 300gr RN InterLocks, and as soon as I can get some InterBonds, I'm hoping to find that they shoot as well as the InterLocks.

I was looking for a $0.30/bullet (vs. the $1.00 premiums) to plink around with. The gun was regulated with Woodleighs, so I chose the Hornady RN which has a more relative profile to the Woodleighs than a spire-point.

I've also tried 330gr cast bullets up to about 2200/fps, and although the barrels individually group well - they are about 4" low and 5" apart at 50yds. One would think they would goup higher, but slow bullets in this gun start low and apart and move up and converge as speed increases.

My regular range doesn't have 200 or 300 yard targets, but another local range does, and you are correct - I do need to get out there and give it a try.

I used to shoot archery quite a bit and always found that if I practiced regularly at 50-60 yards, it really made those 30&40 yard shots a lot easier. I think the same logic could definitely be applied to a double - or any shooting for that matter.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
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Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: new_guy]
      #26097 - 11/02/05 11:48 AM

Ok,

You guys inspired me, here's my Chapuis with 286gr Woodleighs:

50yards (my load):





100 yards (the test traget from JJ, his regulation job):




--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Edited by Chasseur (12/02/05 03:46 AM)

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: chapuis utility grade? [Re: Chasseur]
      #26154 - 12/02/05 03:46 AM

Damn, didn't work the first time, I think it'll work now...

Sorry

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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