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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Capreolus
.224 member


Reged: 11/07/13
Posts: 14
Loc: UK
What the French double rifle market looks like.
      #232865 - 24/07/13 08:26 PM

Hi
I thought you might want to have a look at what is available on the main gun auction site in France.
Many gunshops seem to be using this as a route to sell their new guns as well individuals wanting to trade their own guns.


Copy and paste the link below into your web browser.

http://www.naturabuy.fr/Express-cat-131.html

If that doesn't work just type - Naturabuy - into Google and it should take you there.

Key words to help with your searches
Fusil de chasse = shotgun
Express = double rifle
Combinaison = combination
Juxtapose = side by side
Superpose = over-under
Platines = sidelock
Ejecteurs = ejectors
Extracteurs = extractors
Mono-detente = single trigger

If you have any problems with translations let me know

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Nordmann
.300 member


Reged: 05/07/13
Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Capreolus]
      #232882 - 25/07/13 05:43 AM

Had to laugh , under "brands" ...Both Holland & Holland and Purdey are missing off the list, however woodward exists. Perhaps the French believe Chapuis is the dogs bollocks when it comes to double rifles!

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Nordmann]
      #232883 - 25/07/13 06:02 AM

Yes, I noticed those two misisng.

The Woodward is a very old, non rebounding hammer gun
in a pretty tatty (inside) case.



Edited by 500Nitro (25/07/13 06:04 AM)

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3532
Loc: Colorado
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Nordmann]
      #232884 - 25/07/13 06:11 AM

Quote:

Had to laugh , under "brands" ...Both Holland & Holland and Purdey are missing off the list, however woodward exists. Perhaps the French believe Chapuis is the dogs bollocks when it comes to double rifles!



I think the filter is set to only list makers for which there are ads. No Holland double rifles on offer so it isn't listed.
Looks like a LOT of doubles on the market over there though.
In making a cursory look at what is on offer, looks like the 8X57R is very common chambering as I would think most Continental doubles stay in Europe and the 8x57 makes a lot of sense there. (hog hunting I suppose).
I know I like mine but they seem to be largely dismissed here in the US but honestly, could just about cover any big game animal from pigs to elk.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Huvius]
      #232885 - 25/07/13 06:19 AM


8x57R is the most popular calibre by far in Europe.

I wouldn't say dismissed, the US has never been 8mm orientated, in fact they weren't 9mm orientated
until the boom in 9.3's in the last decade.

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3532
Loc: Colorado
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #232887 - 25/07/13 06:34 AM

Is anybody registered with NaturaBuy and know French? Capreolus?
There is a rifle I may be interested in.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Huvius]
      #232888 - 25/07/13 06:48 AM


With description, I use the translators on the web
when looking at German web sites.

They work well.

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Capreolus
.224 member


Reged: 11/07/13
Posts: 14
Loc: UK
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #232889 - 25/07/13 07:16 AM

Hi
Huvius - Which was the rifle you were interested in?

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Capreolus
.224 member


Reged: 11/07/13
Posts: 14
Loc: UK
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Capreolus]
      #232890 - 25/07/13 07:20 AM

A friend recently offered me an 8,5 x 57 JRS Bettinsoli - does anyone know the marque or have any experience?

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3532
Loc: Colorado
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Capreolus]
      #232893 - 25/07/13 07:49 AM

Quote:

Hi
Huvius - Which was the rifle you were interested in?



PM sent.
Thank You!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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WildCattle
.275 member


Reged: 22/03/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Northern California
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Huvius]
      #232904 - 25/07/13 01:52 PM

The double rifle French market is not high end but low end. However, it is a vibrant market.
The average hunter knows about double rifles (or "express" as it is known locally).
Boars and roe bucks are common and hunted in groups.
You have to shoot in the forest on running game.
It's a great experience that requires a lot of skill as you have a split second to pull the trigger.
It has nothing to do with the English market which was only an upper crest sport and where large game hunting is basically non-existent today.
It has nothing to do with the USA where 99.9999% of the hunters don't have a clue what a double rifle is. Nordmann should not laugh....
It is a market where people *hunt* with double rifles.
The French are not filthy rich and the thought of buying a $95k rifle would sound ludicrous to 99.9999% of the people who actually hunt.$6k is a big number already.
Chapuis and many others (Merkel...) have been around because of the French market.
As Capreolus pointed out, 8x57JRS is the king caliber, followed by the 9.3x74R. Everything else is noise. This is due to the French Law that outlaws any caliber ever been used in an Army of any country. The law dates from 1939.
Best regards,
WC

--------------------
You know you have reached perfection of design not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing left to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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HistoricBore
.300 member


Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 224
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: WildCattle]
      #232927 - 26/07/13 01:10 AM

Huvius: I can help you with any French if need be, but will be away from my PC from tomorrow morning for a week or so.

WildCattle: Your summary of the French position (!) is spot on. Since the 1793 Revolution hunting belongs to the common man, although quite regulated. They also have nothing to do with Target shooters.
The 'Military' calibre ban is due to be lifted in September, so my 1903 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher Schnoenauer will no longer be an especially dangerous military rifle.....

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: HistoricBore]
      #232930 - 26/07/13 01:34 AM


I was wondering when they were going to lift the military rifle calibre ban.

About time.

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Bukken
.224 member


Reged: 14/03/09
Posts: 3
Loc: Norway
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233304 - 01/08/13 09:14 AM

I was under the impression that 7x57 and 8x57IS were allowed in France in spite of the former giving the Yanks a hard time in Cuba and the latter giving the locals a hard time on two occasions. Have I misunderstood?

--------------------
Charlie's listening!

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DORLEAC
.333 member


Reged: 22/01/12
Posts: 464
Loc: Perpignan, France
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Bukken]
      #233321 - 01/08/13 06:49 PM

WildCattle, your analyze is perfect.
It is a common error to despise French gunsmithing ability, especially from Anglo-Saxon.
Indeed we don’t have top names so prestigious as our British friends, even if a “Aiglon” sidelocks s/s from Granger makes any modern made H&H or current Purdey cry their eyes out…
French gunsmithing was often innovative and even if we should not forget that Nicolas Boutet and the Factory of Versailles produced exceptional masterpieces at their time, names as those of Lepage, Potet, Flobert, Lefaucheux, Lebel, and others are still present in the history.
French always chose the pragmatism and contrary to many others preferred to invent that to copy. The smokeless powder of the engineer Veille is a French invention, the first high speed small caliber cartridges of Daudeteau or Lebel also, the first gaz-powered automatic shotgun of Clair brothers also…like the first tanks or our 75 canon too often copied....
The Darne looks like no other one, the dovetailed chopper lump barrels of the MF Ideal were without competitor and we owe to the true to recognize that Chapuis has invented the popular express double rifle, making available to the common hunter a weapon reserved for the elite.
No, we do not have to be ashamed, there is in Europe other peoples who speak a lot and make much less!

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com

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underlever
.300 member


Reged: 01/02/07
Posts: 164
Loc: N.S.W Australia
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: DORLEAC]
      #233324 - 01/08/13 07:46 PM

I recently acquired a 9.3x74R double by N Guyot of Paris. Its a top lever sidelock with intercepting sears, copper lump 26" barrels, disc set strikers, stocked to the fences, Purdey 3rd bite and bolstered action a la Purdey.A Best firearm by any standards.
I won't have it in my hands for another month, literally look at the pics of it every day and the wait is killing me. I say vive la France !!

Edited by underlever (01/08/13 08:06 PM)

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Rell
.375 member


Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: underlever]
      #233328 - 01/08/13 09:17 PM

I thought that Chapuis was a Québécois company;).

I was in Paris last year and I went to "Lamuse de la chase et de la peach". It was after lunch and two bottles of wine but wow.

I don't think all the arms where of French manufacture, but many are and it was mind blowing. If you are ever in Paris it is a must see museum. The H&H gallery looks like a farmers market by comparison.

Vive le Quebec libre!

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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livinus
.224 member


Reged: 12/06/06
Posts: 47
Loc: belgium
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: Rell]
      #233858 - 09/08/13 11:02 AM

I would like to agree with the fine gunmaker Monsieur Dorleac: French gunmakers are often underrated. The same applies to Belgian guns like the 303 savage double rifle discussed rencently on this forum. French gunmakers have always been very innovating and Belgian gunmakers made superior versions of British designs.British guns on the other hand are often overrated. It is a sad fact that the 'germanic' people in the northern parts of Europe, such as Mr Nordmann,(and that goes for the British in particular) have a misplaced sense of superiority.
Being a man of the north myself, I believe I can speak freely about these matters.
Greetings,
Livinus

Edited by livinus (09/08/13 11:21 AM)

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WildCattle
.275 member


Reged: 22/03/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Northern California
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: underlever]
      #233944 - 10/08/13 01:53 PM

Underlever,
I would love to see some pictures of your Guyot.
He is one of my favorite Parisian maker / retailer.
Some of his stuff is easily comparable to Purdey.
I had a shot (pun intended) at a Guyot 500NE double, but the bores were ruined, so I passed on it.
I wish I could find one in great shape.
WC-

--------------------
You know you have reached perfection of design not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing left to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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underlever
.300 member


Reged: 01/02/07
Posts: 164
Loc: N.S.W Australia
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: WildCattle]
      #233953 - 10/08/13 09:09 PM

As soon as it arrives I will take a few pics. This double hasn't had the kindest life and needs a few things put right, but considering the price/quality balance, I'm very happy with getting it.
Does anyone have any info on N.Guyot ? I have a bit of his story but really bugger all. I feel he was a retailer mainly, but wouldn't be surprised if his best guns were made in house. He supplied firearms from lower grade to the very best. Shotguns seem to have been his mainstay. Going on proof marks, firearms he sold were made in Belgium,England and France. Mine has no proof marks, so feel it was made in France.

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WildCattle
.275 member


Reged: 22/03/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Northern California
Re: What the French double rifle market looks like. [Re: underlever]
      #234840 - 29/08/13 02:00 PM

No proof mark would have been Paris before 1900 or so, when proving was optional.
However, the 9.3x74R originated after 1900, so it's tough to say what happened here. Possibly a rechambering from an earlier caliber such as .400/.360.
Belgium, St Etienne and UK would have been proved.
Nicolas Guyot, 12 rue de Ponthieu, Paris. I have seen stuff from the 1880 time frame all the way to 1930 or so.
He is one of my very favorite Parisian retailers. Double rifles are very rare indeed.
He often used Whitworth Steel for the barrels.
I would say that the Parisian makers became more or less all retailers around the 1900 time frame.
Pictures will help.
Best regards,
WC-

--------------------
You know you have reached perfection of design not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing left to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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