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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5273
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: CptCurl]
#25732 - 06/02/05 01:14 AM

Earlier in this thread there was some discussion of Woodward "The Automatic" shotguns.

Last week I was at the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show, and I had the good fortune to look at a nice pair of Woodward 12 bore shotguns. On the standing breach they were marked, "The Automatic" (with no reference to the Woodward patent). In style they were classic Woodward - fine English scroll, fluted fences, frog-eye cocking indicators, etc.

In construction they differed markedly from my rifle. They were much later guns and had H&H type sidelocks with Scott top levers, and of course, A&D cocking levers in the bars. In that sense, very typical English SLE's. A beautiful pair of guns.

Velopex, were the shotguns you saw of this design, or were they underlevers with the type of locks of my Woodward rifle?

Best,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5273
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#91805 - 17/12/07 12:57 PM

Resurrecting this old thread.

In June 2007 I was in London and had the chance to visit Purdey's on S. Audley Street. What an experience!

While there I had the pleasure to talk with David Maynard, the Purdey historian. I discussed this rifle with him. We reviewed the records, and the proof marks on these barrels. He said there is no possibility that the barrels are replacement barrels because (1) Woodward always assigned a new serial number to replacement barrels (these bear the original serial number), and (2) the records show no indication of new barrels for this rifle.

So, he concludes that these are the original barrels that were later submitted for nitro proof. They have no "reproof" stamp, but Mr. Maynard says that is not very unusual.

A mystery solved, and still a splendid double rifle.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: CptCurl]
#91808 - 17/12/07 01:02 PM

When are you going to sell that thing to me?

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Nakihunter
.375 member

Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: ]
#91813 - 17/12/07 02:05 PM

I am drooling over this Woodward rifle but have no experience with Double Rifles. http://doublegunhq.com/itemDetails.aspx?id=2536

I would appreciate any information or advise. I am told by the dealer that it came out of Australia & was worked on by Waghorn. I have also seen older auctions in Guns America where the rifle was listed $1k less than this.

Any help would be appreciated.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5273
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: Nakihunter]
#91841 - 17/12/07 09:56 PM

Quote:

I am drooling over this Woodward rifle but have no experience with Double Rifles. http://doublegunhq.com/itemDetails.aspx?id=2536

I would appreciate any information or advise. I am told by the dealer that it came out of Australia & was worked on by Waghorn. I have also seen older auctions in Guns America where the rifle was listed $1k less than this.

Any help would be appreciated.

I'm virtually certain that rifle is not a James Woodward product. If I'm not mistaken, the inscription says made by "T. Woodward". James Woodward did not make rifles to the trade.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5273
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: ]
#91843 - 17/12/07 10:20 PM

Quote:

When are you going to sell that thing to me?

Sinner,

Thanks for the high praise.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5273
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: CptCurl]
#91846 - 17/12/07 10:26 PM

By the way, here's a more up-to-date link to the photos of my Woodward rifle. I would have edited the link at the head of this thread, but for some reason the "Edit" option isn't available.

James Woodward & Sons .450/.400 3.25" Rifle

This link includes a discussion of the provenance.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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NE450No2
.375 member

Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: CptCurl]
#91851 - 17/12/07 10:56 PM

Did you ever shoot your rifle with 80 or 81gr of IMR 4831 or RL 15?

Also my 400 shoots great with Hawk 300gr .025jkt bullets and 81 gr of IMR 4831.
Velocity is @2330fps. Works great on deer and wild pigs, with less recoil than the 400gr bullets.

My double uses .408 bullets, you could probably use Hornady 300gr .411 bullets made for the 405 Winchester.

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cadet
.224 member

Reged: 10/09/07
Posts: 21
Loc: Western Victoria, Australia

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: NE450No2]
#92029 - 19/12/07 02:25 PM

I've lurked here for a while and enjoyed learning lots and seeing some glorious creations; as glorious creations go, the partictular woodward "Automatic" patent rifle in question is one of the most wonderful I've seen. Sadly, where acquiring such treasures is concerned, I have the "tastes of a viscount on the means of a vicar"!

The question was asked whether JW&S made shotguns on the "Automatic" patent; they did. I am acquainted with 4 - 2 singles (a 12 and a 16(?)) and a matched pair of 12s - probably some of the same ones Velopex knows. All have the roller bearing on the front of the purdey double underbolt; all are, or had been once, one of a pair. I understand the last "Automatic" was built around the mid '20s. Interestingly, the patent was originally a hammered self-cocker - a very few examples still exist.

Cheers,
RG

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5273
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks [Re: cadet]
#92084 - 19/12/07 10:33 PM

Quote:

Interestingly, the patent was originally a hammered self-cocker - a very few examples still exist.

You are quite right. That is an interesting fact I just recently learned from a thread on the doublegunshop.com bulletin board. That discussion can be seen at this link: J. Woodward "Automatic" patent use numbers.

Here are two stunning photos of a Woodward "Automatic" hammer double rifle posted on that thread:

Likewise, here is an explanation that accompanied the photos on the referenced thread:

Quote:

The rifle at Julias is patent use # 13. The sliding "switch" on the bottom of the action changes the throw of the cocking lever so when forward, the rifle goes to full cock. If the switch is pushed to the rear, the rifle only goes to half cock. Neat! The other hammer Automatic just went through Amoskeag. It has the same "switch". I don't know if the switch is part of the patent specification.

Cadet, having been prompted to dig up that thread on doublegunshop.com, I now see you were part of the discussion there. Thanks for your kind compliment of my rifle, and welcome to NitroExpress.com. If this is what it takes to draw you from "lurking" and into our community, I am glad to have done it. Please join in the discussions often. You will like it here.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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