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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Westley375
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Loc: Montana USA
Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR
      #206037 - 27/03/12 12:09 PM

Yes we all know splinter forends are traditional but does a larger (beavertail) have any advantages ? I have large hands and my fingers do wrap around the barrels (and get in the way of my line of sight) and you need to hold on with a 470 NE. whatayouthink?

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Westley375]
      #206038 - 27/03/12 12:38 PM

Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Cazadero
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: CptCurl]
      #206042 - 27/03/12 01:50 PM

Traditional smishonal

My hands are such that a nice beaver tail provides a better grip and thusly a better shot.

Same with my Browning Field Model and Winchester 21

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tinker
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Cazadero]
      #206043 - 27/03/12 01:54 PM

I get a better grasp on the barrels with a splinter.
I feel the rifle looks better with the slim forend too.

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mauserand9mm
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: tinker]
      #206045 - 27/03/12 02:19 PM

An over/under will give you the larger fore end. If you haven't got one then this is a legitimate excuse to buy one now.

Large fore ends are illegal on side by side doubles in the US, and punishable by death in some states I believe well, maybe it should be...

I have small hands so my fingers don't obscure the sighting on my Merkel SxS. I do wear gloves on both hands now when shooting on the range. The left hand glove is to prevent coming in contact with the uncomfortablly hot barrels (8 shots reasonablly quickly leaves the barrel quite hot, and especially if sharing the rifle with someone else who has already fired 8 through it).

(Black powder burns much hotter by the way, and you really can't shoot competition with a black powder SxS without gloves, no matter how deep your voice is.)

The right hand glove has the trigger finger part cut-off and is used to minimise impact of the rear of the trigger guard against my middle finger - besides the gloves come in pairs and I'd looking silly only waering the LH one.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: CptCurl]
      #206046 - 27/03/12 02:37 PM

Quote:

Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter. Splinter.

Curl





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: NitroX]
      #206056 - 27/03/12 05:37 PM

I donīt care how big your hands are, you can still hold a double with a splinter without blocking the sights !! Possibly George Foreman might have an issue ? Splinter only my good friend best

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HogPilot
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #206058 - 27/03/12 06:13 PM

Splinter! Anything other preference is a sign of certain latent tendencies!

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gryphon
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: HogPilot]
      #206066 - 27/03/12 07:52 PM

geez what happened to freedom of choice? I better say splinter too!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: gryphon]
      #206070 - 27/03/12 08:57 PM

Quote:

An over/under will give you the larger fore end. If you haven't got one then this is a legitimate excuse to buy one now.



I had the same thought also. A really nice O/U is not to be shunned. It will give you plenty to hang onto in comfort. The classic is the Merkel 323E.

Oh, and by the way, I do have one double rifle with a slim beavertail forend. So freedom of choice does exist. Does that mean I'm a bad person?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bonanza
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: CptCurl]
      #206079 - 28/03/12 01:55 AM

The problem with the beaver-tail apart from being ugly is all the recoil is transmitted to the latch. With the splintered you should be holding onto the barrel.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

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tinker
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: bonanza]
      #206081 - 28/03/12 02:39 AM

Curl -- I'll take that .300 double rifle for a while to wash your hands of the beavertail.

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xausa
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Westley375]
      #206082 - 28/03/12 03:08 AM

Beavertails, as I recall, were introduced for the benefit of trapshooters, who wanted to protect their fingers from the extremely hot barrel temperatures which trapshooting, particularly doubles, creates.

If you feel that you have to have greater protection and don't want to destroy the lines of your double gun, may I suggest this, which I have found most helpful: http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/_HAND1005...p;categoryid=73

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HogPilot
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: bonanza]
      #206083 - 28/03/12 03:17 AM

Quote:

The problem with the beaver-tail apart from being ugly is all the recoil is transmitted to the latch. With the splintered you should be holding onto the barrel.



That's 100% correct and the recoil / latch issue becomes more of a problem in the heavier recoiling rifles.

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Westley375
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: HogPilot]
      #206084 - 28/03/12 04:12 AM

I have never heard of anyone having a recoil /latch problem among the DR shooters I know. Some have Beavertails on 470 & 500's as do I....if there is a problem , it is a poorly made rifle. My friend who is a Sports Medicine Doctor says,"ergonomically speaking the Beavertail fits and fills a persons grasping hand better than a splinter.A better grip is achieved by filling the gripping hand and the muscles become less efficient when holding a smaller diameter object". Why do you suppose new makers V/C, Heym, Chapuis etc build DR's with beavertails....there must be a reason beside "style" Watch DVD's currently out on Dangerous Game and you'll see PH's carrying mondern DR's with Beavertails and I have never heard one say "gee I wish this had a splinter" I have shot my Chapuis 470NE well over a 1000 times (can many of you honestly say that ?)and have never had any problems with the forend or anything for that matter. Having shot a few Buff and a couple Elephants with my 470 and I feel I have a better grip on the gun with a Beavertail and its checkering. I have shot Big Bores with splinters and found that because of the barrels smoothness, the gun slides back in my forehand at least a little no matter how tightly I hold the gun. And Beavertails are not "ugly". It is like the old adage says "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

Edited by Westley375 (28/03/12 04:16 AM)

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gatsby
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Westley375]
      #206086 - 28/03/12 04:32 AM

Quote:

I have large hands and my fingers do wrap around the barrels (and get in the way of my line of sight) and you need to hold on with a 470 NE. whatayouthink?



You don't need a beavertail,you need a bigger gun maybe a 10, 8 or 4 bore rifle

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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Huvius
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Westley375]
      #206087 - 28/03/12 04:38 AM

Quote:

... Why do you suppose new makers V/C, Heym, Chapuis etc build DR's with beavertails....there must be a reason beside "style"



My guess is that those builders can utilize common forend blanks and CNC shaped forends for both rifles and shotguns that way.
I personally prefer the splinter on English guns.
I did own a Genossenschaft double with a really nice middle ground shaped forend. Not splinter and not a beavertail. Seemed very appropriate on a European gun.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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doubleriflejack
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Westley375]
      #206090 - 28/03/12 04:58 AM

Amazing how emotional some of you guys can get on this issue. Personally, I have no problem switching between using splinter and using beavertail on different rifles, for different shooting conditions, though I prefer the artistic lines of a rifle with splinter. However, I believe that I can shoot as accurately with both.

I believe that the literature tells us that the original British sxs double, with English stock, of course, had a splinter, because the splinter and English stock matched well for shotgun shooting, keeping both hands in line. When the pistol grip stock appeared, it was found that the beavertail was a better match combination, keeping the hands more inline for better shotgun shooting.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #206091 - 28/03/12 05:03 AM

Back in the '70's I had a Beretta Silver Hawk 12 gauge with a "semi-beavertail" forend. This was of the 1960's production. The problem of all recoil being transferred to the forend became readily apparent with that shotgun. The latch didn't give out, but the wood did. The wood was attached to the forend iron by a couple of screws. Repeated recoil caused those screws to wallow out their holes. The wood became loose of the iron and required appropriate repair. Fortunately for me it didn't split and was capable of repair.

If you properly mount a double rifle or double shotgun, most grasping occurs on the barrels ahead of the splinter forend. For a beavertail to cover the typical grasping area it will be loooong and uuuuuuuugly.

The original post requested opinions. My first paragraph is based on fact, the second contains opinion (but not overly emotional, I'm glad to say).

Tinker I can make you a fine deal on that rifle. I have too many. It has not been fired since my May 2005 bear hunt, I'm ashamed to say.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Ben
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: CptCurl]
      #206093 - 28/03/12 07:32 AM

I imagine my Merky .500NE is somewhere in between? Is that right? Anyway, I like mine, whatever it is, and it is the best double I can afford.

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HogPilot
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Ben]
      #206096 - 28/03/12 10:32 AM

Ben, I imagine if your Merkel 500NE is like mine, it's a pure splinter!

I've shot mine 1,000 times easily at this point. Several of those 1000 shots killed a few Elephant and Buffalo as well. I wonder if the good Sports Medicine Doctor is a Double Rifle shooter? As a matter of fact, I have in fact heard several DR owners say they wish their rifles had a splinter fore-end. What I haven't heard is "I wish this had a beavertail"!!

I also have a Chapuis with the beavertail. IMO, there is no comparison in comfort between the two. The splinter looks and feels better in the hand.

As far as what the new companies are building, they will build what you want! I have a VC 500NE Round Body being built right now with a splinter. Should arrive sometime this fall.

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mauserand9mm
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: HogPilot]
      #206101 - 28/03/12 02:26 PM

Just did some googling and found this:

http://www.hallowellco.com/beavertail_and_splinter_forends.htm

Says "The closer one's hand is to the line of the bore and to the line of sight, the better one's hand-to-eye coordination.". That kinda makes sense - wonder it it's true?

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Westley375
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: HogPilot]
      #206103 - 28/03/12 02:41 PM

Hogpilot..you probably embarassed them into saying "I wish I had a splinter" And Yes the "good" Doctor is a DR shooter and a Damned good one at that !! You are entitled to your opinion like everyone else and that's why I started this thread. You know what they say "opinions are like a**holes ...everybody has one !! A Chapuis with A BEAVERTAIL...why on Earth would you still own such a horribly hideous and useless weapon ?? Several people responded saying the Beavertail feels good to them and they shoot accurately with it...and isn't THAT what is most important? About the forend becoming loose, this rarely happens since the majority of the rearward force is against the Receiver NOT the forend latch. CPTCURL'S problem with his Silver Hawk forend was mainly due to the fact that this was not one of Beretta's better made guns...as a gunsmith this I know. Several people (like Doubleriflejack) responded that they shoot very good with the Beavertail and it feels good in their hands and really isn't that what it is all about? Certainly an Elephant or a Buffalo doesn't give a damn that a Beavertail or Splinter DR sends him crashing to the ground.

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RLI
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: Westley375]
      #206105 - 28/03/12 03:56 PM

I have used both splinter and beavertail on the same model rifle a William Douglass .470 and I would say I prefer the beavertail, I always thought the splinter was the way to go in use and traditional looks but my vote is for the beavertail .............

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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tinker
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Re: Opinions wanted....Beavertail or Splinter on a DR [Re: RLI]
      #206109 - 28/03/12 04:24 PM

Curl-

The JW is tempting
I am tardy on a call to you anyway

Maybe I'll ring you later in the week




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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