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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: hunter_angler]
      #184056 - 18/06/11 11:45 AM


The gentlemen that produced the photos above done some testing, this is their report.:

michael458

I have what I think is going to be a very interesting terminal report for you this morning. Some 2-3 weeks ago CCMDoc sent his Sabatti in 450/400 to me for some test work with the 400 CEB BBW #13 Solids. Our goals were to of course check for stability of the 400 #13, penetration depth and normal terminal test work. Well I went some steps further as it began to interest me in seeing how the CEBs shot at 50 yds, and regulation, as I had never done that, so it peaked my interest for a time, but it soon wore me down for sure.

Now, several things to report on this rifle--others, can't say, but this particular one. One of the big questions it seems with the Sabatti is how they tend to regulate by filing the inside of the crown, and that stability thereafter. Something about this just does not seem right to me. The crown is very important for stability of the bullet in my opinion. While playing with many many different loads, powders, and bullets for the Sabatti there was a trend that continued throughout every single test--Right barrel would shoot slightly left of target, left barrel 4-6 inches to the right and most of the time low regardless of bullet, Woodleighs, CEBs, Swifts, everything. And in each test I saw some instability at 50 yds with the left barrel with all the bullets, not quite hitting square!

Now during the tests we discussed having the scope on, and how this can change the regulation of a double. As consistent as this rifle was shooting, I had my doubts to this, but what the hell do I know? Next to nothing about these things! Sam was here on Tuesday and we put the gun through the paces from about 10 am or so to well after 5 pm just about as hard as we could go. Now contrary to my teasing CCMDoc when I put the scope on, I really did not use JB Weld for the mount, I did not even loctite the mount screws! Not my rifle, I did not want to do anything ugly! During Sam and I test work Tuesday, the scope worked it's way loose, rounds were flying everywhere! HEH HEH....... We completed terminals, removed the scope and started shooting irons. Sam did all this work, as he is a mighty fine iron shooter. As for the different bullets and different loads, there was zero difference in regulation. Right barrel still shot slightly left, Left Barrel shot WAY right. Exactly the same as with the scope. Difference was only that the irons had not been sighted in, and everything was 6-7 inches high at 50 yds, that was all. On this gun, no regulation issues with a scope.

Now, this is not to say the rifle did not shoot with anything. It shot the Hornady Factory loads very very well. The 400 DGX would group 1.5 to 2 inches Right/Left at 50 yds, and the Hornady DGS about the same, and in the same place as the DGX with both irons and scope. So this gun would be ready to go with the Hornady Factory loads, no doubt.

I have something here that I think will be very revealing just taken this morning for this post.

As you see in the first photo the egg shaped crown of the left barrel.

However on this photo, taken a bit closer, you can actually see where some of the rifling has been removed completely by this process on the left side, left barrel.

With the Factory Hornady and it's very small meplat, the instability started to show between the left and right barrels.

Now, I must say at this point, the Hornady DGS done FAR better than I expected of it. In some cases we got deep penetration far beyond where I expected. It barely even has a meplat as well, but this bullet did extremely well in my opinion.

On the left side, left barrel we shot 3 rds of the 400 Hornady DGS. Two went completely unstable at 30 inches, hit the bottom of the box, one had to have scrapped a nail in the bottom which damaged it. One of the 3 managed somehow to stabilize, penetrated extremely deep into the second box, but I could only give it 65 inches of "Straight" penetration. It went further, but was not quite stabilized. Without doubt, 2 out of 3 were totally unstable.

The right barrel showed far more stability. One of the DGS from the right barrel started moving up and left until it left the box at around 64 inches. It started loosing stability at 50 inches and migrating. We lost that one. In fact of the 5 fired we seemed to have lost two of them.

In summary!

One of the main reasons that CCMDoc sent the rifle was the concern about the way Sabatti had regulated, by removing the inside of the crown, kicking the bullet to the right. That for sure works, as it kicks every bullet on the market to the right from the left side.

Stability? There is no doubt in my mind that stability of all bullets fired in the left barrel is effected by this. You can see it in most all of the targets fired at 50 yards. Stability is an issue during terminals with that left barrel.

I know little about regulation of these things, but I believe that had the left barrel been left as is that this rifle might have regulated far better with other bullets than the Hornady. I could be wrong, but no matter what bullet (Other Than the Hornady Factory ammo) the left barrel kicked them to the right 4-6 inches from the right barrel.

This gun is regulated well with the Hornady ammo, both DGS and DGX. There is no issues with that, and in my opinion would do fine for anything buffalo/hippo and down. The DGX performed very good in it's role as an expanding bullet, and the DGS was good enough for buffalo for sure. Personally I would have no issues using the rifle and ammo in that role.

The gun is a very nice gun, nice wood, very tight, no mechanical problems that I experienced or could see. Just that left egg shaped crown is the only issue I see with them.

I was scheduled to send it back to CCMDoc on Monday, but I am going to keep it just long enough to do one more test, Sam is making some bullets he thinks we should try in it first, so CCMDoc if that is a problem, do let me know.

That sums things up as I see it, I am sure Sam might want to add, as well as CCMDoc too!

Final Summary of tests.:

Well the above statement would be fairly accurate in my opinion. I really wished that the rifle would have just done everything perfect and I could have had a better report for it, but things are what they are, as CCMDoc has said. This rifle was very tight, remained so throughout the shooting and test work, mechanically no issues at all. All my loads used Federal 215s and several different powders, including RL25, RL22, Lot's of IMR 4831, H-4831, and IMR 4350. Both barrels were very consistent with all powders, loads, and bullets, they just were not right/left compatible.

It's for sure regulated with Hornady Factory Ammo, which is shot both solids and DGX very well, and they are right/left compatible.

This regulation by filing the inside of the crown, does without doubt, cause stability issues both in flight, and more so in terminal penetration. It does have an effect, end of story.

On this rifle there was no effect between having a scope on, or having it off. The Hornady Factory ammo remained regulated with the scope and without, and all other bullets showed the same effects, scope or no scope. Scope on this particular rifle was of no consequence at all.

Personally, while this particular rifle as it is would do fine with the Hornady ammo on buffalo and such, I would have great concerns about other rifles regulated this way. If they will not shoot a proper flat nose solid, such as the North Fork or CEB BBW#13, at least these bullets are capable of "self-stabilization" during terminal penetration, lesser bullets cannot self stabilize. I would have concerns using these in the field with anything of a serious nature. Sam has concerns about the large amounts of bearing surface on the Hornady DGS, and no doubt it is a hard bullet. So there are many things to consider in this matter as I see it.

I also cannot see this method of regulation as being a proper thing to do. Take a look at the photos posted, it's rather evident.

Wish I had something better for all of you. Sorry!

Michael

Next the owners report on these findings.:


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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #184057 - 18/06/11 12:16 PM


Following the tests, the Sabatti owner took it back to Cabela's to have Sabatti repair the rifle. This is his story.:

Posted 19 April 2011 19:02 19 April 2011 19:02

Here is the response I received minutes ago:

"I just heard back this morning on your gun. He says the Italians have it as a priority job. They tell him it should done before the end of the month and will express ship it back. Then they are going to test fire it once back in the states to make sure everything is good. That is everything I've got back from him for now.

I responded to that email with the information and experience shared by LionHunter as background for him and his associates. Whether anything is done with that information I do not know.

Hopefully my experience will be different but we'll see when I have my Sabatti 450/400 back in my own hands.

As always, the truth is what it is and I will post the results "good, bad or indifferent" as my father would say.

Posted 09 June 2011 02:48 09 June 2011 02:48

As of a few minutes ago, my Sabatti is on route to the Cabelas from which I bought it after re-barreling and proper re-regulating.

We'll see when back in their hands. If those issues weren't addressed as promised, I won't accept it and will decide about a refund vs. a properly built replacement.

Should know by end of the week.

Posted 11 June 2011 04:18 11 June 2011 04:18

Delivered sometime yesterday, found it leaning against the wall in my living room when I got home after midnight.

Sabatti green hard case packed well in cardboard box.

Barrels with for-end attached liberally coated with oil in a clear plastic sleeve sealed on both ends. Same with receiver/stock.

Work order: "Replaced and fit new barrel. Test fired OK"

No test target ...

The work order had my address and that of EAA in Rockledge, Florida and none other.

Took both out and assembled them then examined the barrels.

Proper round crowns, lands sharp to the end.

Barrel length 23 9/16"

Hmmmm ...

Would those of you with Sabatti doubles do me a favor and measure them for me? I thought they were 24" and I'm pretty sure mine had 24" barrels ...

Ramp for front sight looks to be a bit shorter now than when it left my hands ...

Looked again at the lands on the left barrel, 1:00 - 3:00 position if looking from the muzzle ...

Not so sure they are as sharp as the rest ...

Now someone had mentioned that it should be re-proofed if it was re-barreled. I don't know a damn about proof marks but there are two side by side on each barrel - remind me of "King and Queen" in a chess set. I printed out the proof mark pages posted elsewhere but frankly, I'm too tired to start deciphering.

Upon measuring, re measuring, taking photos of the barrels, looking at photos I took before shipping it out - I then called the Gun Library manager at the Cabelas I bought it from and politely told him of my findings.

It seems to me that they shortened and re-crowned the barrels, not replaced them ...

I should mention that he and higher-up leadership in Cabelas have been extremely supportive throughout and have many times offered to give me a new Sabatti which met my approval (and pay all of the shipping registering etc. fees that getting a new one would mean in NJ) or to refund my money. I got the sense that they REALLY wanted this to work out and for me to be happy. BTW, I have never "threatened" posting anything on any site regardless of the outcome so I don't think it was a show to protect them from bad press on my part.

In any event, I was asked to hold onto it until Monday. The Manager would like to speak with the corporate bosses and ask if I should send it to the Cabelas of purchase or directly to Corporate for their inspection. The choice of replacement or refund is mine and either way I would be compensated for all of the shenanigans and shipping, just a matter of where it should be sent.

So there you have it,

The Truth is What It Is.

As promised and as much as I hate to say it, it's been a frustrating and very disappointing experience but I have to post this for all who are considering a Sabatti DR.

I really do like these Sabattis for everything but this one problem and am honestly considering the offer of a replacement ONLY IF the bores and crowns are perfect and it shoots excellently.

So let me ask those of you with Sabatti DR in DG calibers:

What is the actual length of the barrels on your double - just in case I am wrong...

Posted 12 June 2011 01:17 12 June 2011 01:17

Several points:
1) I was told the double went back to Sabatti in Italy. Both the Cabelas Gun Room Manager as well as his boss believed the same;
2) I was told the barrels would be replaced and the double properly re-regulated. Cabelas folk believed the same;
3) The 2+ months it has been out of my hands lead us all to believe 1 & 2 were true;
4) Finally, there is absolutely no evidence that this double was regulated at all after "fixing" the barrels.

I would have been fine if I had been told they were going to lop off the ends, re-crown and re-regulate the double. In fact I tried to hire J.J. Perodeau to do just that but he chose not to do such work on Sabattis given prior experiences.

So, after being mislead on the very issues promised to be addressed would you trust this particular double on an elephant hunt in Africa?

As I mentioned, I'm not completely put off of Sabattis, I may accept another as replacement, so long as the barrels are right and of is properly regulated.

Posted 12 June 2011 01:23 12 June 2011 01:23

Let me also say that it was the inability to get this double to regulate with any of a variety of bullets that started this endeavor.
AND
Had this Sabattis been supplied with a test target demonstrating adequate regulation, I might have kept it ...

But it didn't ...

Posted 14 June 2011 01:24 14 June 2011 01:24

You may be right but I have asked for evidence that it had been regulated and test fired. I can't even get a "Yes it was" regarding my question no less the evidence.

I am envious of those of you who can walk out back or drive a few miles to do some shooting - if I could I would certainly do so. Like many of you, I average over 100 hours a week and for me to spend 2 hours driving to my county place just to find out it had not been regulated and drive another two back home is 4+ hours of time I'd rather spend with my family.

Again, we (Cabelas folk and I) were told a couple of things that, as it turns out, are not true. Why would I believe it was regulated particularly since no one can even tell me if it was or was not?

More to follow.:


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #184088 - 18/06/11 05:07 PM

Cleaning double rifle barrels posts removed by request of opening poster.

Lets keep it on topic.

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500Nitro
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NitroX]
      #184095 - 18/06/11 06:28 PM

John, why didn't you just move them to a new, separate thread instead of selective editing (since their are still 3 or 4 posts still on this thread) ?

Just to keep you happy, Nigel, I have cut and pasted all the off-topic posts to the new thread.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=184061&an=&page=0&vc=1


Anyway,
So why are Sabatti still persisting with still stuffing around doing things "on the cheap" so to speak.


I've also PM'd about 5 - 6 people who were involved over the last 2 years of dicsussions on another forum to see if they will come across to NE to discuss but they seem to have gone away from talking about DR's. Two of them owned Sabs (or did, I think one got a refund).

.

Edited by NitroX (18/06/11 09:03 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: 500Nitro]
      #184097 - 18/06/11 06:54 PM

Quote:

John, why didn't you just move them to a new, separate thread instead of selective editing (since their are still 3 or 4 posts still on this thread) ?




Because I don't have all day to edit out all your advertising and trying to make sales off this site, usually by PMs unseen, without paying any sponsorship. BTW I didn't delete any of them for the benefit of the guys wanting to try the products.

BTW still waiting to try out Wipe Out one of the products you are selling.

As for the remaining posts, these forums run on a "threads" system and cutting out the remaining would just have them hanging as independent threads by themselves.

But just for you, I've cut and pasted them the rest manually.



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John aka NitroX

...
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"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (18/06/11 09:12 PM)


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kamilaroi
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NitroX]
      #184100 - 18/06/11 08:01 PM

John, thanks for your efforts.

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Lilguy
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #184401 - 23/06/11 04:43 AM

I am new to the world of doubles and have been reading with great interest the debate over the Sabbatti line.
My question for those in the know is this. The Cabelas close to me has a Sabbatti 470 NE with
factory finished rifling, no grinding at all. Would this mean it shot to spec without the need to alter the muzzle? This gun is retailing for 5999.00. The Gun library also has a Merkel 140A 470 NE, preloved and pristine for 8999.00. I would appreciate all input on this choice. This is an area of the shooting sports that I have never come in contact with in over 40 years. Have never seen a double at any of the clubs I belong to and will have to travel some to shoot it. Many Thanks


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500Nitro
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #184402 - 23/06/11 04:50 AM


Just because the Sabtti doesn't have grinding doesn't mean it will shoot and even a test target is no guarantee as they didn't seem to know which bullet went where (ie the R and L bullets being on the correct side of the target, not crossing).


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #184404 - 23/06/11 04:54 AM

Lilguy,

First a hearty welcome to NE.com.

As to your question, I can vouch for the quality of the Merkel but I have no experience with a Sabatti. From all I have read I'll say I have no intention to own the Sabatti.

That sounds like a big price for a used Merkel. You might check around.

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bwanabobftw
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: CptCurl]
      #184413 - 23/06/11 06:37 AM

Lilguy,
Welcome !!! I will add to what CptCurl and others have said : Stay away from the Sabatti , there are some great entry level doubles on the market . Too many to trust the shaky Sabatti reputation. Look at the Chapuis and the Merkels , etc. lots of great guns out there as opposed to 20 years ago , when there were just a few new guns. Good luck in your hunt for a double.
Robert


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Lilguy
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #184421 - 23/06/11 09:24 AM

Thank you gentlemen.

When I started looking I had in my mind to stay as far under 9 thousand as possible. Then I heard about Cabelas exclusive on Sabattis and began following the discussions here and elsewhere.
If a properly regulated gun will put Hornady
Rds on target, the price is great.
What else will 9k get me? Are there sites dedicated to marketing double guns besides Gunbroker? No one around me offers Hornady 470 NE and Cabelas is selling Federal for 275.00/20 count.Any suggestion on a outlet for ammmo on these NE rounds. I guess reloading is out of the question with guns regulated
with one specific brand.

Appreciate all your help.


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bwanabobftw
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #184457 - 24/06/11 12:19 AM

Lilguy,
You might look at the Verny-Carron doubles . I do not have any personal experience with them (I do own Chapuis and Heym), but I have read lots of positive reviews on them . I also looked at them at SCI last year. They are top notch guns !!! They make an O/U in a 450/400 3" for around $7000.00 .
You can reload for all the doubles and do it a lot cheaper than buying the factory ammo. Just a matter of finding a load that will regulate in your gun.
Robert


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Lilguy
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #184465 - 24/06/11 03:03 AM

I live 40 miles NW of Chicago. My regular arms merchants are not DBL gun people.The folks at my Cabelas, only guns I have found, have a deer in headlights expression when pressed on DBLS.I have purchased many new guns for my collection over the net but never anything in the 6-10 grand range. Where would I start looking for a selection of guns from a reputable dealer? Any sights that cater to the DBL market place?I have already been contacted by one "Merkel" dealer from my posts here but I would like input from those here before I dive in. Thanks

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #184730 - 27/06/11 11:50 PM

I've handled the Sabattis at Cabelas stores in Oregon and in Fort Worth, Texas. They look and feel very nice for the price, but until someone can prove that Sabatti is listening to its customers and regulating the guns properly, I wouldn't be comfortable buying one either. I would sure love to own a DR though!

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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #184741 - 28/06/11 03:31 AM

Doesn't the Sabatti experience just confirm what we all knew anyway? If you set out to buy the cheapest product, what you end up with is a cheap product. Quality comes at a price, but it represents better value every time.

I've done the same thing - first buy "cheap"; then in the long term "cheap" isn't good enough, so I end up buying again. In the end that strategy results in paying more. You spend for the "cheap" and then you do what you should have done to start with: you buy quality. If you buy quality in the first instance you save the price of the "cheap". So it's better economy to forego the "cheap" in every instance.

I won't be buying a Sabatti.

Curl

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #184743 - 28/06/11 03:54 AM

Lilguy,

The first Big Game Rifle Club of North America match of the year should come up in Lodi WI anytime now. The second one is in October. It is an excellent place to check out some double rifles - both modern and vintage. Another place where you can see some double rifles from time to time is the Aurora Sportsmen's Club. I haven't been to their new range but am told that several double rifle shooters joined after the new range opened. Of course, you can always go to Bristol WI and check out the range there - some people there do own double rifles but there is no regular pattern of attendance at any of these places other than at the Lodi matches.

Not sure the Hoffman Estates Cabelas store has any double rifles, but you could check with the various Scheels branches in Wisconsin and do an transfer from there. About a year ago I was at the Scheels in Appleton WI and saw two double rifles there - one a Dakota and the other a Merkel. If you want to order a Merkel rifle, Mike Schrank's in Waukegan are a firm that would order for you. Mark, who runs the place after Mike Schrank and his brother died, is a nice guy though he is a former police officer and not very knowledgeable about double rifles and historical guns. That said, I have had excellent service from him in the guns that I have bought and the FFL transfers that he did for me. Mega Sports in Plainfield are also dealers for Merkel, though I have not done any business with them and have no idea what their service is like.

Good hunting!

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Mehul Kamdar


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #184744 - 28/06/11 04:04 AM

Quote:

Thank you gentlemen.

When I started looking I had in my mind to stay as far under 9 thousand as possible. Then I heard about Cabelas exclusive on Sabattis and began following the discussions here and elsewhere.
If a properly regulated gun will put Hornady
Rds on target, the price is great.
What else will 9k get me? Are there sites dedicated to marketing double guns besides Gunbroker? No one around me offers Hornady 470 NE and Cabelas is selling Federal for 275.00/20 count.Any suggestion on a outlet for ammmo on these NE rounds. I guess reloading is out of the question with guns regulated
with one specific brand.

Appreciate all your help.




Firstly $9G will get you a second hand Merkel or similar priced DR, Chapuis, Krieghoff etc.

Secondly, while a lot of people in the USA do not reload, if shooting NE and factory ammo it will cost a lot. Reloading is the ONLY way to go IMO.

Usually it is possible to duplicate and find a handload which will regulate if the rifle is actually regulated in the first place. Some calibres such as 9.3mm's use an unusual regulating bullet IMO, such as a 232 gr, which again IMO is not ideal. Much better if they shoot a 286 gr load IMO.

I wouldn't buy a 9.3mm regulated with a 232 gr load, unless I knew it also shot 286 gr or 320 gr loads.

If buying say a .470 it will almost certainly have been regulated with a 500 gr projectile and load, a .450 a 480 gr or 500 gr load, and a .400 probably a 400 or 410 gr bullet and load.

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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: CptCurl]
      #184745 - 28/06/11 04:07 AM

Quote:

Doesn't the Sabatti experience just confirm what we all knew anyway? If you set out to buy the cheapest product, what you end up with is a cheap product. Quality comes at a price, but it represents better value every time.

I've done the same thing - first buy "cheap"; then in the long term "cheap" isn't good enough, so I end up buying again. In the end that strategy results in paying more. You spend for the "cheap" and then you do what you should have done to start with: you buy quality. If you buy quality in the first instance you save the price of the "cheap". So it's better economy to forego the "cheap" in every instance.

I won't be buying a Sabatti.

Curl




Curl, well said. Buy a cheap car, and it will be a cheap car. DR's cost a lot, often for good reasons, not just cosmetic ones.

I wouldn't touch a Sabatti with a barge pole as things now stand. Unless I could shoot it first and get it examined by someone qualified to do so, and only if it was cheap!

The old adage, value for money, not the cheapest.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Lilguy
.224 member


Reged: 21/06/11
Posts: 11
Loc: Illinois
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NitroX]
      #184782 - 28/06/11 10:57 AM

Thanks all. Mehul, the Cabelas has 6 Sabattis and one Merkel 140A. The Sabatti 470 has a clean muzzle
and is about 4 grand less than the Merkel. So I need come down off the fence, both guns are beautiful.


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Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #184892 - 30/06/11 10:41 AM

....

Edited by Alberta (30/06/11 10:45 AM)


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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2881
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #184895 - 30/06/11 10:45 AM

Quote:

Thanks all. Mehul, the Cabelas has 6 Sabattis and one Merkel 140A. The Sabatti 470 has a clean muzzle
and is about 4 grand less than the Merkel. So I need come down off the fence, both guns are beautiful.




I guess they sold the other 5 Merkel's considering they buy in lots of 6.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.


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Lilguy
.224 member


Reged: 21/06/11
Posts: 11
Loc: Illinois
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #184905 - 30/06/11 12:46 PM

The Merkel is new and sells for $9853.90 OTD. Is that as good a price as one is going to find on such a gun?

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 252
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Lilguy]
      #186681 - 28/07/11 01:09 AM

Hello,

I am late to the party here but was the first to publish my findings over on AR.
I had a 500NE EJ serial # CAB00278.
I bought it new at Cabelas.
When I purchased it I did not study the muzzle crowns in depth, as it was a new gun.

The regulation target showed two shots side by side about 0.8" apart and the words "Final Tuning"
No other holes on the paper.

I bought 2 boxes of the regulation load, Hornady DGX 570 gr.

I shot it in the winter with snow on the ground at 28 Degrees at 29 and 62 yards, two shooters.
Best it would do was 4 inches spread most were 6".
Next was in january in Texas, 60 degrees.
Another 20 rounds and this time several shooters, 8" spread at 45 yds.
Right and left barrels had excellent composite groups, one ragged hole and a cloverleaf.
Exactly 4" right and left of the dot perfect height.

Upon further study the muzzles were found to be ground at 3 and 9 Oclock.
Cabelas was excellent and offered a replacement, upon opening this new gun it was also ground on both barrels this time towards the rib, exact oposite of the first (Serial CAB 00436 )
The target showed many holes and a circle around 2 shots with the words "Final Tuning" there was about 1" of verticle stringing on this target.
I opted for a miss and a full refund.

I feel that disclosure of the methods used up front would have made a difference, however the gun has to shoot and the original target and gun did not perform as advertised.
I can only speculate that the regulation method, is particularly sensative,to the natural production variation of velocity in the Hornady ammo.

I had pictures of the crowns but after the whole affair I deleted them and moved on.

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (28/07/11 08:02 AM)


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aromakr
.375 member


Reged: 20/04/11
Posts: 705
Loc: Hamilton, Montana
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: nitro450exp]
      #186696 - 28/07/11 04:47 AM

Well after all the posts, I finally contacted Cabelas customer service in Sidney by email. I stressed that I wished to talk to on the phone the person that has been put in charge of this problem. I received a canned response that I would be contacted within 48 hours that was three weeks ago and as of this time NO Contact.
Bob


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davidindallas
.224 member


Reged: 24/07/10
Posts: 10
Loc: Texas
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: aromakr]
      #195916 - 06/12/11 05:14 PM

I'm sorry to hear that some people have experienced problems. I bought a 9.3 last year and fired about 15 rounds one weekend down at my lease. I wasn't testing regulation, but I was consistently able to hit a old telephone pole (left on its side) over and over. My only concern was with the trigger pull; it's a bit heavy. For a South Texas pig gun, it seems just right. For an elephant I'll take a Merkel in 470.

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