Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed?
      #150032 - 10/01/10 03:35 AM

Interested in thoughts on the 6x70 mm Rimmed cartridge.

Anyone used one?

If not what do you think of it?



90 gr projectile at a muzzle velocity of 2400 fps.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150037 - 10/01/10 04:00 AM

It's a cool cartridge.

I passed on a hammer cape gun in 6x70 and 16bore a couple years ago.
If it weren't for some condition issues I'd have gone for it.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150039 - 10/01/10 04:19 AM

I have seen a few rookrifles and 410s rebarreled/ relined for this cartridge. It is indded a funny little cartridge. It is a lowpressure cartridge, designed to give "new life" for fadedout kipplaufers(breakaction) + could still keep the requirements for european huntinglaws. It is a true roebuck caliber.
It could be interesting to find a sound 410 action, and have a double made.

Edited by rigbymauser (10/01/10 04:22 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: rigbymauser]
      #150086 - 10/01/10 02:48 PM

My idea is to use it on roos, goats, pigs and also deer such as fallow, chital, perfect for hog deer.

Not to mention a European roebuck.

I wonder how over gunned it would be on rabbits, hares and foxes? No doubt way over gunned ...

An alternative calibre I have been looking at is the 5.6x52R but with its 70 gr bullet at 2800 fps the 6x70R with a 90 gr at 2400 fps is not a lot different anyway, and if the 6x70R could be loaded with a 70 gr (75% rule) the two may be almost identical.

The 5.6x52R (.22 Savage Hi-power) would still be over-gunned on the small stuff, but a little under-powered on the medium game.

Just mulling over a project.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (10/01/10 09:13 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150090 - 10/01/10 05:50 PM

John;

What's the gun?

As for ballistics, it is as you say almost a dead-ringer for the .22 Savage which is identical in performance to the 5.45 Russian and heavy-bullet 5.56/.223. I have no experience with the 6mm but do with the 5.45 Russky and that one kills dogs the size of the small deer just fine.

It'll be a bit rough on meat rabbits and hares for sure but I'd think OK on foxes if you can get some hard bullets for it.

This must be a gun project of yours we need to hear more about...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150099 - 10/01/10 09:10 PM

im working on 2 projects at the moment, one a double and 1 a H&H rook rifle, the caliber is really sweet, fun and effective, norma loads it so quality ammo is there as well.

i will post a few pictures when i get the time.

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150105 - 10/01/10 11:57 PM

John - by Europe I assume you are thinking mainland countries for roebuck - the 5.6x52R would technically not be legal for roe in England, but would be in Scotland... Not sure what rules apply where you might be thinking of using it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5268
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150106 - 11/01/10 12:03 AM

Quote:

Interested in thoughts on the 6x70 mm Rimmed cartridge.

Anyone used one?

If not what do you think of it?


90 gr projectile at a muzzle velocity of 2400 fps.




Well you got me on this one. I've not even heard of a 6x70mm. In fact, my edition of Cartridges of the World has no such listing.

Can someone give a bit more information on this? Is it a new offering? Is it a wildcat?

Long skinny bugger isn't it!

Thanks,

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: CptCurl]
      #150110 - 11/01/10 12:34 AM

Its about 10 years old and a work done between krieghoff and norma. Norma is loading it and sells it in germany but i dont know if its awaiable in other countries or if any other has it in their program. I think it begun as a low pressure cartridge for krieghoffs inserts not that it was ment as a replacement for obsolete, but it sure is a nice cartrigde for an old kipplauf or rook rifle as Peter suggested. The pressure is right down with 22 Hornet.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: 450_366]
      #150112 - 11/01/10 12:41 AM

I thought it was designed to meet various Euro minimums for roe/reh/rå shooting?

I'm surprised it missed the bus there in England. Or was it just designed to meet some requirement in Germany and just happened to meet velocity/joules requirements in DK, etc, but not everywhere. I have the Norsk chart around here somewhere but offhand it looks like it might be OK for rådyr in Norway, ditto Danmark, Peter? And Sverige?

Am I thinking of a different cartridge?

Not 5.6x57, I know that one was designed for 200 meter roe requirements, but I thought this one was for some minimum for roe also.

Am I offbase here?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150115 - 11/01/10 12:50 AM

i think it is legal for roe in england as well, but i might be wrong, it is legal for roe in denmark and is a very good choise for that(who am i kidding, you need a 577 pbe to do that safely )

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150121 - 11/01/10 01:11 AM

In Europe (most, at least those who have around 1000J minimum) its good for everything below grade 1 animals, (deer,pig,moose,bear etc.) and when constructed it was meant to stand up to those but in a lowpressure cartridge and so suited for insert barrels in shotguns and combos.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kalunga
.333 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150122 - 11/01/10 01:11 AM

What I have read in a German hunting forum, the 6x70R is OK for hunting roe deer, although I prefer a somewhat bigger bullet (like Peter !).

Not much to add to Andreas` comment except that Wolfgang Romey also participated in developing that cartridge.

The 5,5x57 is in another class, easily matching the performance of the .22-250.

Kalunga


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Kalunga]
      #150125 - 11/01/10 01:15 AM

Quote:



The 5,5x57 is in another class, easily matching the performance of the .22-250.






Yes, that one has been intriguing for me for a long time; a stock Mauser 98, using cheap 6mm Remington brass for cases, 25 inch tapered stalking barrel, quick twist for shooting the heavy 77 grain bullets. As the wolves wipe out our big game, it just might become a preeminent coyote/wolf gun around these parts.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150132 - 11/01/10 01:46 AM

Sorry, I was referring to the 5,6x52R that John mentioned as an alternative. The minimum for roe here is 6mm and 1700ft/lb, so the 6x70R should be fine.

Edited by JabaliHunter (11/01/10 01:48 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5268
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #150139 - 11/01/10 02:02 AM

I think I like it already and never heard of it before this thread.

My next double rifle. . . .

Peter, a rising bite?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5268
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: CptCurl]
      #150140 - 11/01/10 02:04 AM

Damn, or what about a tiny David McKay Brown DR in this chamber.

Very small - minature Scottish Round Action.

Wow that would be nice.

Dream on, dammit!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: CptCurl]
      #150154 - 11/01/10 05:29 AM

curl

just wait and see what i have in store for you in a few months, it will make your mouth water talk about small action , sadly we are not abel to do it yet in london a lot more R & D before we can come out with mini action, so this is a private project, but fun none the less, the final product should weigh a bit over 4 pounds

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5268
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150253 - 11/01/10 11:58 PM

Peter,

We all will be anxious to see this project.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: CptCurl]
      #150269 - 12/01/10 01:37 AM

Quote:

Damn, or what about a tiny David McKay Brown DR in this chamber.

Very small - minature Scottish Round Action.

Wow that would be nice.

Dream on, dammit!

Curl




With sidelever

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8665
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: tinker]
      #150283 - 12/01/10 02:17 AM

Quote:

It's a cool cartridge.

I passed on a hammer cape gun in 6x70 and 16bore a couple years ago.
If it weren't for some condition issues I'd have gone for it.




Cheers
Tinker




I think what you have seen was an old cape gun for the mother cartridge 6,5x70R, so called "Bleistiftpatrone" or pencil cartridge - you can write with a soft point load on paper very fine.

there are not many informations about the 6,5x70R, it was for very slim drillings and büchsflinten. ballistic was the same as we have for the better known 6,5x58R Sauer&Sohn. the 6x70R was developt from Norma for Krieghof as a very low pressure round for barrel inserts. this way the power is under the old 6,5x70R because kriegkof dont like high pressure loads in combination guns. the 6x70R is till now the only case with the base diameter of the 6,5x70R, it is simply necked down.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
baileybradshaw
.333 member


Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: lancaster]
      #150290 - 12/01/10 03:22 AM

The more I think about this round, and the more I discussed it with the good folks at the DSC show, the better it sounds. I want one for myself.....it will be perfect for the average 100lb and under hogs that populate East Texas.

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #150296 - 12/01/10 03:52 AM

Has anyone ever made a rising bite double with Westley hand detach droplocks ? best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #150315 - 12/01/10 06:49 AM

mike

please i have told you that you can have pretty much anything you are willing to pay for but that is a very tall order

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150337 - 12/01/10 08:31 AM

seriously Peter, is it do-able ? best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #150546 - 13/01/10 08:40 PM

The Norma 6x70R (based on the old 6,5x70R "pencil" case), is also known as the 6x70R Rehwild, meaning "roe deer" and was introduced to the market just a few years ago. The name makes it pretty clear what it's target is; Europes must hunted deer.

To use an insert cartridge, you insert and lock the light muzzle-length barrel insert into a break-open shotgun bore. It's actually a bit more complicated than this because of the issue of different chokes, forcing cone shapes and barrel lengths. So normally the insert is made to precisely custom fit just one barrel of one break-open gun like a Drilling or an over/under combination rifle/shotgun. The insert is also indexed to that particular barrel by having it's extractor fit into a precisely milled out slot in the parent bore's extractor, so it piggy-backs. Usually the insert is placed in the RH barrel of a Drilling as these typically have a set trigger. The shotgun striker fires the rifle cartridge.

The 6x70R offers a small gain on the .22 Savage,(5,6x52R) which is also a popular insert cartridge choice because of relatively light back-pressure. Other possibilities are the 5,6x50R and, for predators like fox, the .22 Hornet.

The idea, by the way, is to get the insert in a scoped Drilling to group at 100 m to the same POA more or less as the big game cartridge still available to shoot in the Drilling, a 7x65R or similar. The way this is achieved varies with insert designs but one type has screws at the muzzle which are adjusted to bring the POI up, down or sideways. I'm told, (can't vouch for this), that it does this by actually bending the insert barrel in the middle. So you now have 2 choices of rifle immediately available to match the game - or you can remove it for double-barrelled wingshooting.

These inserts used to be somewhat shorter, 44cm for instance, but the problem was that they had to be removed from the shotgun bore to allow cleaning of that bore after firing. When replaced and re-locked them into place, they really needed to be resighted. By making these inserts muzzle-length now, the fouling problem has been averted, but now there are issues with any moisture that gets trapped between them and the shotgun bore. So proper water-proof sealing of the bore is also important if they are to be left there for any length of time.

My understanding is that Norma market 6x70R brass and I see that this is available from at least one US source. If you're buying a new Krieghoff combination gun, you could have such a insert fitted. You could buy the insert seperately, but who will custom fit it outside Europe ? Or you could import a gun from Europe and specify you want such an insert fitted beforehand. Or you could use a 6x70R barrel on a single shot. But do you have roe deer sized targets ?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #150551 - 13/01/10 09:30 PM

Would also be a nice cartridge in a very light weight Ruger #1 as well I would think.
DC


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150595 - 14/01/10 02:13 AM

And just to confuse issues a bit, how about splitting the difference between the 5.6x52R and the 6x70R and looking at the 6x52R Bretschneider?

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #150759 - 15/01/10 08:54 PM

Quote:

But do you have roe deer sized targets ?




I think it would be perfect in Aust for feral goats, most feral pigs, kangaroos, especially hog deer as well as capable on fallow and chital deer.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Buchsemann
.333 member


Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150785 - 16/01/10 03:33 AM

Gentleman,

I'm not familiar with all of the animals of Australia and I'm curious, what is a "hog deer"?

I'd really like to see a picture of one of these critters if it's not too much trouble.

Thank you,

Buchseman

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Buchsemann]
      #150786 - 16/01/10 03:47 AM

Here's a hunting story for you ... a double in 6x70R would be perfect in this environment too.

"Luck at Boole Poole" - click here





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150788 - 16/01/10 03:51 AM

By law Victoria requires a minimum of a 6mm bullet and a 50 mm long case for hog deer, so a 6x70R would be fine for this.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150838 - 16/01/10 04:38 PM

The wildcat cartridge 6x52 Bretschneider is just the 5,6x52 (.22 Savage Hi-Power), necked up to 6 mm. I think the 6x70R edges it out a bit, probably because of slightly higher breech pressures and perhaps, being a newer era carridge, it may have stronger brass. It might also be a bit more of a challenge to find published reloading data for the Bretschneider, especially in English.

Given that the hog deer is in much the same class as the roe, (perhaps a bit bigger), the 6x70R, 6x52R, 5,6x52 and 5,6x50R should all be in the same ballpark. If you're not restricted to a break-open gun, the rimless version of the 5,6x50 (a Heym development), is going to have the best trajectory & retained energy compared to these rimmed cartridges.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #150851 - 16/01/10 10:17 PM

Quote:

seriously Peter, is it do-able ? best, Mike




mike

we are talking about a completly new action that has to be developed, which brings us into 8-10 times more money than the quote you got from us
call me and i will explain what a project like that would involve.

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150852 - 16/01/10 10:20 PM

this is the link to normas webpage about this cartrigde.

http://www.norma.cc/sortimentjakt.asp?Kaliber=5&Lang=1&Kalibernamn=6x70R

they do sell them as loaded ammo, and i love their quality of ammo, so if it has been regulated with norma, then stay with norma and all is good

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150868 - 17/01/10 02:33 AM

Peter,

I think you are on a winner with this cartridge for all sorts of hunting.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150869 - 17/01/10 02:36 AM

Some more questions.

Given the standard bullet weight of the cartridge seems to be a 90 gr projectile ...

What sort of twist rate do the barrels have?

Secondly if the twist rate is designed for a 90 gr projectile, how do you think a 60, 70, and/or 75 gr projectile would perform in it?

Thirdly as above, but with reduced power loads?

Assume for the moment, a single barrel rifle, then also answer if the rifle was a double barrel?

Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150884 - 17/01/10 03:46 AM

Quote:

Some more questions.

Given the standard bullet weight of the cartridge seems to be a 90 gr projectile ...

What sort of twist rate do the barrels have?

Secondly if the twist rate is designed for a 90 gr projectile, how do you think a 60, 70, and/or 75 gr projectile would perform in it?

Thirdly as above, but with reduced power loads?

Assume for the moment, a single barrel rifle, then also answer if the rifle was a double barrel?

Thanks.




John

the twist rate is a standard 1 in 10"

the lighter bullets should do all right as well, i will experiment a bit with the heavy ones (100-120 grains) when it is set up and tell you about the results.

i dont think you will need to reduce the loads as it really is a pussy cat to shoot and the report is very very mild.

these answers would go for both a single shot and a double.

if you come this year you will be abel to shoot both styles

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150888 - 17/01/10 03:55 AM

Quote:

i dont think you will need to reduce the loads as it really is a pussy cat to shoot and the report is very very mild.




I was thinking about damage on very small critters.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (17/01/10 06:37 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #150890 - 17/01/10 04:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i dont think you will need to reduce the loads as it really is a pussy cat to shoot and the report is very very mild.




I thinking about damage on very small critters.




head shots, or solids then


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150913 - 17/01/10 06:28 AM

I have been fascinated with this cartridge ever since I encountered it in my DEVA loading manual. It appears to be the ideal solution for the problem of what to do with my H&H rook rifle, which I have had kicking around in the vault for close to 40 years now.

The original barrel of my rifle was sleeved to .22lr and numerous holes drilled and tapped in the integral rib barrel, which has been crudely cut off with a hack saw. The butt stock has also been shortened, perhaps for a young child. Cutting the barrel off far enough ahead of the breech to form a monoblock seems to be a workable solution and the 6X70R a perfect cartridge.

Any suggestions on who to get to do such a job?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: xausa]
      #150915 - 17/01/10 06:43 AM

Quote:

I have been fascinated with this cartridge ever since I encountered it in my DEVA loading manual. It appears to be the ideal solution for the problem of what to do with my H&H rook rifle, which I have had kicking around in the vault for close to 40 years now.

The original barrel of my rifle was sleeved to .22lr and numerous holes drilled and tapped in the integral rib barrel, which has been crudely cut off with a hack saw. The butt stock has also been shortened, perhaps for a young child. Cutting the barrel off far enough ahead of the breech to form a monoblock seems to be a workable solution and the 6X70R a perfect cartridge.

Any suggestions on who to get to do such a job?




XAUSA

im just starting such a job and if it is of interest, i will see if i can do a blow by blow account about the job, i think you should be abel to find a smith overthere that can handle the job as it is not diffecult, it just takes a bit of time and concentration. could you show a picture of the gun in question ?

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dr_Deer
.300 member


Reged: 23/02/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Australia
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #150957 - 17/01/10 06:39 PM

John, any details of the project you are mulling over that you'd care to share? An einstecklauf for an existing BBF perhaps or are you contemplating a whole new firearm?

The 6x70R certainly would be a handy small round to have in a drilling where both large and small game encountered are subject to minimum calibre regulations.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #151174 - 20/01/10 12:55 AM

At the appropriate time.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #151199 - 20/01/10 08:44 AM

Quote:

The minimum for roe here is 6mm and 1700ft/lb, so the 6x70R should be fine.



No, I was wrong. According to the Norma link above, the 90gr factory load at 2428fps yields 1178ft/lbs, so fails to meet the minimum in England for roe (6mm and 1700ft/lb). According to my arithmetic (could be wrong at this time of night!) that means that a 90gr .243 must be travelling at 2917fps to meet the minimum.
It would not be legal in Scotland either due to it's low velocity (easily remedied in this case) as the minimum is a 50 grain bullet AND 2450fps AND 1000ft/lbs (in reality, to use a 50gr bullet it would need to be launched at 3002fps).
Of course we all know that the 6x70R would work very effectively on deer this size, but technically you would need to hunt outside England and Scotland, which is a pity as we have some very nice bucks!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #151696 - 25/01/10 04:50 AM

this is the rifle my client, wanted me to convert, it really is a sweet little rifle.





best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #151713 - 25/01/10 05:46 AM

Thats my kind of rifle, i envy you, but is it left handed?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: 450_366]
      #151720 - 25/01/10 06:12 AM

it is completly straight stocked, only thing right handed is the trigger which is to live with. my client is actually a lefty and he is over the moon about it.

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #152341 - 31/01/10 05:54 PM

Quote:

this is the rifle my client, wanted me to convert, it really is a sweet little rifle.





best

peter




Peter,

that single shot would be really sweet.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #152413 - 01/02/10 06:56 AM

john

i think that there would be a very good chance for a test shoot next time you are here i hope it gets out of the work shop soon though, as i tend to get sweeter on it every time i work on it

best

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: peter]
      #152460 - 01/02/10 04:08 PM

Peter,

I think I might be putting in an order for a nice double in one of these super-sexy 6x70mmR's very soon myself.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #152490 - 02/02/10 01:34 AM

Quote:

I think I might be putting in an order for a nice double in one of these super-sexy 6x70mmR's very soon myself.




Well the decisions made. I think a nice Bailey Bradshaw Double Rifle in a 6x70 mm Rimmed is a go.



New Thread - the Bailey Bradshaw DR in 6x70mm R




EDITED TO ADD: In the end this order was not made.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (30/01/14 09:33 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #347500 - 03/12/20 08:38 PM

As I edited, in the end I did not proceed with the order for some specific reasons and NOT funds related. The price was very good.

I do wonder how an insert barrel would go?

Assuming the complicated fitting procedure mentioned in the thread was not needed?

Perhaps used in my Tikka/Valmet shooting system?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 243
Loc: Scotland
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: NitroX]
      #348150 - 20/12/20 03:58 AM

Does any body still load the 6x70R - I no longer see it listed by Norma. I have an old Alex Martin Rook rifle bored to 410 that is going to be relined sometime. Goto is the 22 Hornet, but 6x70 is useful little cartridge.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: HeymSR20]
      #348152 - 20/12/20 05:22 AM

90gr. at 2,400fps - interesting indeed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2363
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: HeymSR20]
      #348168 - 20/12/20 09:06 AM

And as it was designed for small framed drillings it is very low pressure and small in case diameter so ideal for something like your rook rifle.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #348170 - 20/12/20 10:19 AM

That's what I thought, in looking at the loaded round. It would 'fit' a very finely made rife.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: DarylS]
      #348175 - 20/12/20 01:30 PM

The K+S full length insert barrel on my Krieghoff combination gun, 12 ga./7X75SE vom Hofe, is in caliber 6X52R Bretschneider, which propels a 95 grain bullet at 2950 fps. I'm still waiting for a chance to try it out on a whitetail.

The cartridge is either a 5.6X52R (.22 Savage High Power) necked up or a 6.5X52R (.25-35) necked down. Either way, it's a one stroke of the loading press operation.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5268
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Thoughts on the 6x70mm Rimmed? [Re: xausa]
      #348193 - 20/12/20 10:39 PM

John,

Having brought back this thread from 2010, it might be wise to point out to newcomers that Peter is no longer in the gunmaking business (if ever he was), and exited rather un-gracefully.

As for this 6x70mm Rimmed cartridge, it never caught on. If you want to go for a hot 6mm flanged cartridge, why not consider the .240 H&H Flanged Magnum? That's a real cartridge, and Bertram makes brass for it.

Holland & Holland should be able to spin one out for you. They probably haven't had one come off their bench since the 1940s, but what the heck?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 117 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 23135

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved