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To anyone reading this thread. To summarise: shoot Woodleighs and all will be well

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But use the extra 'stiff' FMJs sparingly ... use any FMJs sparingly, not a target bullet. And some FMJs were thickened and as is recommended, use sparingly.

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Been years ago now, but IIRC for this or another thread, I did an experiment to compare effort needed to draw/resize:

1) mono bullets
2) copper/gilding-jacketed lead-core bullets
3) Hornady steel-jacketed lead-core FMJ's

All in .375 cal using a variety of dies I've used to reduce to .366-.369 caliber. The gilding jacketed lead-core jobs are rather easily re-sized, as Daryl and I have been doing for many years now {re-sizing .375 lead-core bullets for use in 9.3 rifles}. The monos are almost all impossible to reduce and the steel-jacketed lead-core FMJ's were an absolute no-go, presenting an absolute stop to attempts to resize them using the same equipment used to draw the lead-core jobs.

In my mind, if the monos actually are capable of damaging a rifle bore, the FMJ's would absolutely wreck it in a few shots, depending on all the standard variables, of course {bore/groove diameter vis a vis bullet diameter, etc.} I have no experience {I don't think, it's been years...} with "extra stiff" Woodleigh steel jacketed bullets, but if they are anything like the Horny's I tried, would be no-go's with my equipment as well, and maybe even worse.

To me this entire issue involving OSR remains a mystery.

PS: There was one one mono bullet I could resize that had multiple, very narrow driving bands. Took effort, but could be done. Can't remember which it was. Been so long.....

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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There was reportedly an H&H double rifle ffffed in Melbourne this year (or last) using the wrong sort of projectiles ... I wasn't there to see it, but was told about it. I think it was quite a new one, and therefore very expensive.

Some of the Melbourne members on here would know all the details, if they are willing to share the info.

Since this thread (?) maybe since its beginning, I have spoken to the gunmakers at Verney-Carron and Heym, and they didn't warn against using mono metal projectiles. SO presumably their modern firearms are OK with them.

BUT personally I would ONLY use monos with raised driving bands such as the hydros, not examples with 'driving' grooves instead. Just MO. Not going to use either most probably and stick to what I already use.

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Thought someone a while back posted a warming by Woodleigh to not use their guilding metal coated steel jacketed FMJ's in side by sides.

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All I can say is that I have seen it, and it was caused by Barnes X bullets. It wasn't there before firing the X bullets, and it didn't take but a few.

This is not hearsay.

Curl

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All I can say is that I have seen it, and it was caused by Barnes X bullets. It wasn't there before firing the X bullets, and it didn't take but a few.

This is not hearsay.

Curl

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I seem to remember you posting that back in the day!

Do you know/remember if the rifle in question had been re-blued? Older gun/newer gun?

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I too have PERSONALLY experienced OSR on my rifle..., A brand spanking new Weatherby MK V in .378. The culprit? Barnes X. The Hornady Interlocks shot fine and I got it sighted in with them. Back home for a cleaning. Barrel wiped and polished with a soft oily cloth, nice and shiny beautiful deep blueing removing the unsightly finger prints from the surface.

Then to the range with a fist full of 300 grain Barnes X..... back home for another cleaning and voila! Lovely spirals matching the rifling clearly visible in the blueing on the entire outside length of the barrel starting from just ahead of the chamber. I wish they had come up with the stress relief grooved bore rider design BEFORE I pooched a beautiful rifle with this original Barnes X. I would still own that rifle had it not been destroyed like that.

Believe it or not.

OSR DOES exist as a very real phenomena. I just recently raised an eyebrow in another recent post when I found a Woodleigh Hydro that had both riveted and bent after having hit a hippo broadside shoulder shot, the bullet taking a sharp right hand turn and somehow ending up in the neck. The hippo expired (obviously since I was able to recover the bullet!), but I think that with both stress relief grooves and the somewhat softer alloy of the Hydro, I am confident in shooting them in modern doubles without complete fear of OSR, although to be honest, I sure do spend a great deal of time looking for OSR to see if I’ve managed to damage a fine double..... so far, so good. Whether a riveted bent Hydro causes me calamity via angry big biting stomping animal violence is the opposite side of the hard/soft equation, but I believe this was an anomaly under extenuating circumstance and I tend to think the Woodleigh people have struck a reasonable balance with their alloy and grooved design.

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I too have PERSONALLY experienced OSR on my rifle..., A brand spanking new Weatherby MK V in .378. The culprit? Barnes X. The Hornady Interlocks shot fine and I got it sighted in with them. Back home for a cleaning. Barrel wiped and polished with a soft oily cloth, nice and shiny beautiful deep blueing removing the unsightly finger prints from the surface.

Then to the range with a fist full of 300 grain Barnes X..... back home for another cleaning and voila! Lovely spirals matching the rifling clearly visible in the blueing on the entire outside length of the barrel starting from just ahead of the chamber. I wish they had come up with the stress relief grooved bore rider design BEFORE I pooched a beautiful rifle with this original Barnes X. I would still own that rifle had it not been destroyed like that.

Believe it or not.

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Did you take any measurements of the barrel exterior to see if there was any variation between what would be the grooves and pressed-out lands and or internal slugging to determine if any interior change occurred?

Seems like these questions have been asked before w/ non-committal responses. I just can't remember. If there aren't any dimensional differences, might one conjure variable heat stress showing in color of steel? But how many would have to have been shot in what time to generate something of that sort? Who knows.

But certainly the latter, as I've mentioned in the past, gives cause for pause thinking of all the billions of French solid brass 8mm Lebel bullets sent down range in everything from bolt guns to Hotchkiss machine guns as well as some of the early steel-core HARD AP military rounds that might have been shoved thru low-end tolerance mil barrels.

The mystery goes on!!

And on!!

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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I too have PERSONALLY experienced OSR on my rifle..., A brand spanking new Weatherby MK V in .378. The culprit? Barnes X. The Hornady Interlocks shot fine and I got it sighted in with them. Back home for a cleaning. Barrel wiped and polished with a soft oily cloth, nice and shiny beautiful deep blueing removing the unsightly finger prints from the surface.

Then to the range with a fist full of 300 grain Barnes X..... back home for another cleaning and voila! Lovely spirals matching the rifling clearly visible in the blueing on the entire outside length of the barrel starting from just ahead of the chamber. I wish they had come up with the stress relief grooved bore rider design BEFORE I pooched a beautiful rifle with this original Barnes X. I would still own that rifle had it not been destroyed like that.

Believe it or not.

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Did you take any measurements of the barrel exterior to see if there was any variation between what would be the grooves and pressed-out lands and or internal slugging to determine if any interior change occurred?

Seems like these questions have been asked before w/ non-committal responses. I just can't remember. If there aren't any dimensional differences, might one conjure variable heat stress showing in color of steel? But how many would have to have been shot in what time to generate something of that sort? Who knows.

But certainly the latter, as I've mentioned in the past, gives cause for pause thinking of all the billions of French solid brass 8mm Lebel bullets sent down range in everything from bolt guns to Hotchkiss machine guns as well as some of the early steel-core HARD AP military rounds that might have been shoved thru low-end tolerance mil barrels.

The mystery goes on!!

And on!!

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And on and on and on. As memory serves, I shot maybe 20 rounds of the Barnes..... Not very many at all. It was around 18 years ago, I was much younger and far less affluent to the point that buying a ‘bee MK V was the outer edge of financial extravagance, one which I could not afford at the time and certainly not one I could afford to ruin the second trip to the range with it. Nope, I did not take measurements but I did stare at it a hundred ways to Sunday and it didn’t appear in the least as a simple discolouration. To these eye it looked raised and certainly NOT a normal barrel. At the time it did not occur to me to measure it, in no way anticipating having this “he said, she said” debate on an Internet forum. Down the highway it went as fast as I could churn it. .

Looking back, some of my rifles now are far more expensive, but I will avoid like the plague trying to recreate that experiment in any event. Maybe some members here with a scientific bent can find a good donor rifle and a few boxes of the old original non-stress grooved Barnes X, and go to the range with a micrometer?

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Yes - lots of questions. .5's with steel cores, .223 with tungsten cores - same deal. Is ball 7.63x39 ball lead or steel core?

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Yes - lots of questions. .5's with steel cores, .223 with tungsten cores - same deal. Is ball 7.63x39 ball lead or steel core?

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What's a bummer is that it seems that every time we find an OSR'd barrel, measurements or other observation for those of us who have never seen it is, for some reason, not possible. IIRC, Mark Cash did post a pic of one back in antiquity, but I don't recall the details, nor do I remember if there were any dimensional changes noted.

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I wish I could show you that Weatherby barrel, particularly because it was so blatantly obvious to the naked eye. I tried a bit of surfing and there isn’t any pics on the net that I’ve managed to uncover. I suppose that this type of barrel ruination must not be terribly common and I sure wish it hadn’t happened to me because I had a really powerful attachment to that Weatherby with the idle dreams of the young to one day somehow hunt Africa with it. Don’t know what else to tell you.... It happened to MY rifle and I dumped it with a broken heart. People can shoot whatever they want through their guns and disbelieve that OSR even exists, but I’ve learned my lesson.

So as curiosity killed the cat, I couldn’t sit still and went to dig out the remaining Barnes X bullets that I knew I’ve been sitting on since dumping the Weatherby. They measure out at 0.3741 or 0.3742..... Hard to tell with the .001 increment Starrett dial micrometer, but it is definitely at least 0.0001 bigger than 0.3740. The box is labelled as follows:

50 BULLETS
37585
375cal. 375dia.
270GR “X”
CANNELURED
938/1 9/1/98

It appears that at some point I consolidated the partially finished 1st box as there are 71 bullets in this box, ergo it is probable I fired 29 of them in that Weatherby .378.

And that’s all I’ve got in forensic material other than my memory and my Internet say so concerning what I experienced wrt to OSR.

Edited by Postman (09/10/19 11:34 AM)

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Woodleighs, all ya need, ever, for anything.

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Woodleigh make their Solids a few thou undersized so as to help avoid barrel stress problems.

Until now I had not heard of a Hydro bending or going off course. I have seen them start to rivet but not badly. Might have been a faulty batch????

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What is Woodleigh jacket material made of? Seems there are two types or something, a regular and a extra-hard jacket?

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Years ago the Woodleigh 458 350gr SNRN had been suggested to me as a good candidate for the black powder express. I got a box, tried them, and I was immediately struck with how hard they were. I sectioned one and compared the jacket and core hardness to the Hornady of similar weight and design. The W bullet was much harder than the H bullet.

Following up I later learned that there was a 350 SNRN designed for BPE loads and there was a 350 SNRN designed for the 458 Winchester loads. I never ended up sourcing any of the softer W bullets for comparison, as the H bullet is cheap and easy to get here in North America.

There might be other examples of the W softs where "some are softer than others"...

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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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What is Woodleigh jacket material made of? Seems there are two types or something, a regular and a extra-hard jacket?

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Years ago the Woodleigh 458 350gr SNRN had been suggested to me as a good candidate for the black powder express. I got a box, tried them, and I was immediately struck with how hard they were. I sectioned one and compared the jacket and core hardness to the Hornady of similar weight and design. The W bullet was much harder than the H bullet.

Following up I later learned that there was a 350 SNRN designed for BPE loads and there was a 350 SNRN designed for the 458 Winchester loads. I never ended up sourcing any of the softer W bullets for comparison, as the H bullet is cheap and easy to get here in North America.

There might be other examples of the W softs where "some are softer than others"...

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That's pretty interesting.

So there is something to it.

"Use Woodleighs" might be the wrong advice. Maybe "Use the right Woodleighs" is better.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Woodleigh make their Solids a few thou undersized so as to help avoid barrel stress problems.

Until now I had not heard of a Hydro bending or going off course. I have seen them start to rivet but not badly. Might have been a faulty batch????

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