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bonanza
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What is Henry rifling?
      #129650 - 15/03/09 11:41 PM

What is Henry rifling?

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9.3x57
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: bonanza]
      #129670 - 16/03/09 01:59 AM

Rounded lands, 7 groove heptagonal rifling, IIRC.

I bet Marrakai can bail us out here.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DoubleD
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #129674 - 16/03/09 02:37 AM

Henry rifling is most commonly associated with the British Military single shot rifle the Martini Henry and in caliber .577/450 Martini.

In the MH the rifling is seven flats and seven peaks. The center of the flats is the same diameter as the top of the peaks.(Minor diameter)The corner of the flats where they meet the bottom of the peaks is the major diameter.



The MH is a bit complex and I won't get into it unless you wish. It is a partially tapered bore and is not a .458. It takes some special understanding to make the MH shot. If you want more info on this bore let me know. There are some tricks like how to slug and measure the bore.


Many commercial .45 Henry barrels do not have the over size measurements of the MH and are true .458 45's.

Westley Richard also used Henry rifling of 9 flats and peaks.

Need any more help with this just ask.

I thought I had some bore pictures but all I could find was this "colorized" version.



The dark lines are the peaks and the flats are in between.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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DoubleD
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: DoubleD]
      #129675 - 16/03/09 02:51 AM

I knew I had a picture of Henry rifling.



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DD, Ret.


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Marrakai
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: DoubleD]
      #129704 - 16/03/09 09:04 AM

Thanks, DD. Nothing to add to that!

Oh, except maybe that it was a very common rifling type for single and double express rifles turned out by most makers in the late 1800s.

...and that soft lead bullets don't work well in Henry rifling as a rule, however paper-patched, very hard lead, or thin-jacketed bullets can be stupidly accurate.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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88MauSporter
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: Marrakai]
      #129765 - 17/03/09 03:27 AM

I would like to know more on the MH .577-.450 bullets and methods. I do not have a military version in the .577-.450, but have a comercial sporter MH action rifle in that caliber. I have shot it with "factory loads" from an outfit in California that specializes in cowboy action type calibers. The bullet they load is a 480 grain with a long pointy lead bullet with a hollow base. It shot a respectable group at 50 yards.
I have yet to do more shooting. I plan to load my own for this rifle. I had always read that the bores run large compared to other .450 (.458) caliber rifles, but with the commercial rifle, maybe not. I did have to change the shoulder a bit to be able to chamber in my rifle.
What is the best way to measure bore and what can you tell me about loading for this. I love the rifle. It is light and handy. good express sights. It does bark and jump a bit when you pull the trigger!!

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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DoubleD
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #129789 - 17/03/09 06:44 AM

Ten-X is a good outfit and I worked with them when they were developing their ammo.

For some reason they could not believe/could not be convinced that the Martini Henry with it's long tapered .468 diameter throat and .464 bore needed or could be shot with the larger bullets and made their bullets .462. These bullets are undersized. I don't know what you call respectable, but I have to yet see 50 yard group with undersized bullets in a Martini that I would call respectable.

Slug your bore by driving a soft .50 caliber round lead down the bore from the muzzle. As you are pushing the slug down the bore pay particular attention to the feel as you approach the chamber if the slug loosens up you most likely have a tapered bore.

To measure the slug close the jaws of your dial calipars around the slug, leave the sliding jaw loose and roll the slug between the jaws while keeping a very light thumb pressure on the sliding jaw. The jaws will open and close as you roll the slug. Watch the reading on the dial and note the high reading that repeats, this is your major diameter.

Some commercial 577/450 Martini bores will read .458 to .460, but most are larger in the range of .464.

If you felt a tapered bore then the throat will be .004 larger than the bore or .468.

If you go to www.martinforum.org you will find a lot of good information on loading the Martini. The board is getting ready to do a group buy of Jim Goodwin great .468 480 grain bullet mould. The mould will be made by Jim Allison at CBE. After the group buy the mould will be standard inventory with CBE. The group buy will start taking orders soon with delivery in September.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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88MauSporter
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: DoubleD]
      #129792 - 17/03/09 07:29 AM

Many Thanks DoubleD. I will check out the martini forum. I haven't taken the time to slug the bore yet, but have a supply of .50 round balls to tap down the bore. I do believe the bore is Henry rifled. My group of four rounds was just at 2 1/2". This was the first and only opportunity I have had to shoot the rifle. I suspect that once I get used to the trigger, sights, hold, etc. It would be tighter. With this light rifle, those Ten-X loads of 777 powder (per their claim) really let you know it when your pulled the trigger. I was much like shooting a .500 BPE double I had opportunity to shoot a while back.

Again, thanks. I will try to follow up on my finding.

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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DoubleD
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #129803 - 17/03/09 09:33 AM

Here's a 100 yard Martini group.



--------------------
DD, Ret.


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88MauSporter
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: DoubleD]
      #129868 - 17/03/09 11:38 PM

Better than Mine! Let's see if we can get my old gent to shoot as well.

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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88MauSporter
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #130308 - 24/03/09 01:48 AM

DoubleD:
I did the slugging of the MH .577-.450 this weekend, from the muzzle using a swaged lead .495 round ball. The ball tapped in and engraved well the rifling. I tapped it through the bore and out the breach with a series of muzzle loading rams with patches on the end. There was constant resistance down the bore, so I would say this rules out the tapered bore.
I failed to count the lands and grooves, but will do this later. The micrometer used is accurate. It has been tested several times with known tolerances. Using the slight pressure and turning the slug to register the highest points, the diameter measures exactly .460.
To me, this seams like a good thing. It brings the bullet selection and availability up from one that would be .462-3 or so. Mine is a sporter (with express sights that also have a ladder sight leaf for long range) from South Africa. I would think that the regulation for the sights would center on the military loadings of the .577-.450. The rifle does shoot close to point of aim with the Ten-X 480 grain loads.
I believe I am going to try some long round nose 480 to 500 grain casts.
Any comments or suggestions of bullet types that have worked best for your loadings?

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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DoubleD
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #130322 - 24/03/09 06:11 AM

The technique I outlined will only work with a dial caliper and not a micromoeter. It's an old millwright trick.

If you wish, you can send me the slug and I'll measure it for you.

It will be good for you if it is .460.

I would cast up some standard .458 bullets with Wheel weight and see what diameters you get.


Edited by DoubleD (24/03/09 06:17 AM)


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88MauSporter
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: DoubleD]
      #130326 - 24/03/09 08:38 AM

I did use a dial caliper. Jaws with only finger pressure and turned the slug. I have a couple. I used the word micrometer by mistake. I am sure it is .460. I measured some Sierra match of different size and they were consistant. Looks like I will be doing some loading. Thanks.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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DoubleD
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Re: What is Henry rifling? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #130329 - 24/03/09 09:35 AM

Great, go for it. Lucky you on the dimensions. Probably why the Ten-X's shoot well in your gun. Their bullets are .462.

CBE sells a couple of moulds that should work for you. Cbe is one of best mould made anywhere in the world.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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