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Gary6034
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Loc: United States
Shotgun with a hidden third fastener?
      #89702 - 25/11/07 06:02 AM

I'm interested in finding an old shotgun for a double rifle project gun. I like the hidden fastener I have seen in some pictures, but I have no clue what manufacturer has used this feature. I do know that there is one called the Purdey Triple Bite, but a Purdey for me is way out of my price range. I'm looking for a nice stong action for under $2,500.00. Can anyone provide information?

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500Nitro
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Gary6034]
      #89703 - 25/11/07 06:09 AM



With the way the British gu trade made guns for everyone else,
I think it's partlu a matter of looking a all the guns available.

Holland's made Shotgun with Hidden third fasteners as well
but I don't see many crapped out Hollands for sale.


Any particular reason you want a hidden third fastener ?


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Gary6034
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #89718 - 25/11/07 12:12 PM

.500 Nitro,

Thanks for the response. I've been searching the internet all day, and I have to agree with you. It seems that many manufacturers have used the hidden fastener here and there.

I want a hidden fastener, because I just don't like the way the Greener cross bolt looks. I know that may seem wierd and I can certainly agree the Greener cross bolt is the most effective of the third fasteners, but it's my way of finding a middle ground.

What I plan on doing is buiding a .500 N.E. on it and I want that added insurance. If I could do it without a third fastener at all, that would be great. I was looking at the B. Searcy doubles and he doesn't have one at all. He does, however, indicate is actions have a "Double Purdey Bolting", but I'm not quite sure what that means. Let me know what your think?


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Judson
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Gary6034]
      #95265 - 27/01/08 11:02 AM

Check out the French guns,many have three even four bites and most that I have seen have hidden fasteners. The French used hot proof loads as a sales pitch going as far as double and tripple proofs to show the strength of the guns. I do not mean that a tripple proofed gun fired a proof load three times what a standard proof load was however the load was usually up into the 32,000+ range. You should get a book giving you the proof marks and what the mean and the pressures I think one is titled The Standard Directory Of Proof Marks. I have the book in my shop and I will check the title and get back to you people if that is not correct.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

Edited by Judson (27/01/08 11:03 AM)


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squirrelmonkey1
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Judson]
      #95334 - 28/01/08 03:07 PM

Hello folks,
I don't think proofs mean much here, or what the shotgun was prooved for.
When you look at the wall thickness of rifle chambers vs. shotgun chambers. there is a tremendous difference here.
The rifle chambers are much thicker and therefore capable of withstanding much greater pressures.
Is it noted somewhere on these forums that pressure curve (fast or slower )have a profound
effect on the action during firing?
Straight cases are better than bottle neck cases where doubles are concerned except for loading and especially extraction.
Bottle neck cases exert more breech pressure than straight wall cases.
The faster the rise and fall in pressure the better.
Slower powders even at lower pressure can have an effect on the action (Pressure curve of long duration) ie. opening due to bending about the hinge axis. hence a case for the third fastner, Hidden or otherwise. May I suggest that safety should be the highest concern over asthetics?
Regards,
Tom

Edited by squirrelmonkey1 (28/01/08 03:16 PM)


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Bramble
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: squirrelmonkey1]
      #95676 - 01/02/08 01:32 PM

Quote:

Hello folks,

Straight cases are better than bottle neck cases where doubles are concerned except for loading and especially extraction.
Bottle neck cases exert more breech pressure than straight wall cases.
The faster the rise and fall in pressure the better.
Slower powders even at lower pressure can have an effect on the action (Pressure curve of long duration) ie. opening due to bending about the hinge axis. hence a case for the third fastner, Hidden or otherwise. ,
Tom





May I respectfully enquire as to the sources of the data you have used to make those sweeping statments please.
As I am thinking of switching from H4831 to Bullseye so that the pressure rises really fast and then falls even more quickly as it blows the side of the sodding chamber open.

Regards


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gallatin
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Bramble]
      #95685 - 01/02/08 04:54 PM

I must admit I read the same thing somewhere and so was hopeing to hear more on the subject of bottleneck vs straightwall cases. It seems the arguement went: the equal and oposite force of breech thrust was against the base of the bullet in the case of the straightwall and against the case shoulder and the base of the bullet in perportion to their area. The duration of the breech thrust is then a function of the time needed to attain a specific volume relative to the smaller bore of the bottleneck cartrige. thus more (longer) duration, or was it all just a function of the level of Devils lake, I forget.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Bramble]
      #95701 - 01/02/08 09:42 PM

Quote:

I am thinking of switching from H4831 to Bullseye so that the pressure rises really fast and then falls even more quickly as it blows the side of the sodding chamber open





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squirrelmonkey1
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #95734 - 02/02/08 03:41 AM

Bramble,

The hammerless double rifle by A. Grey for one...P.O Ackley In his writings as well...In fact He has blown more guns than anyone on the planet in the interest of internal ballistic science.
Several handloading manuals , I'll have to review my collection to cite the titles.

Talk about powder ? I'm talking medium burning powders i.e. RL 15 vs slower powders i.e. H4831 OR H 1000 Where duration of pressure and its effects are concerned.

Hey, bullseye will work ! why do ya think Fast burning/pistol powder is used in shotgun shells ???
Pressure spike is one reason..although you won't get the velocity one needs in order to generate enough power to kill anything larger than a goose..




Although I have not blown my shotgun/DR conversion, I can tell ya that it/ they (ALL GUNS) sure as "hell" kick alot harder (DYNO tested W/lead sled type of cradle) when using slow burning powder compared to the relatively tame recoil when using, say.. RL 15.
And frankly, It almost feels like the gun is going to come apart under the heavy recoil
generated when using slower powders.



Tom

Edited by squirrelmonkey1 (02/02/08 03:50 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: squirrelmonkey1]
      #95744 - 02/02/08 05:18 AM

As with Ackley's findings, I-too, in my meager testing of similar cases, have found that straight-walled cases, ie: those with minimal case taper, produce much less bolt thrust than do more tapered cases. This stands to reason and Ackley's thoery of the case walls cripping the chamber walls in correct here.
; The big question here is what constitutes minumum case taper. My .375/06IIMP has only .005" per side while the .257 Ack IMp, and original .375/06IMP I had, both had .0075" per side, taper.
; All of these rounds, including a 9.3x62, with .010" taper per side, all exhibit incredible ballistics with no noticable bolt thrust, whereas similar case capacities but with more tapered cases, fail to produce those ballistics due to the bolt lockng up from thrust.
; Most of the 'straight-sided' cases, indeed have much more taper than these expamples and therefore develop greater bolt thrust.
; I have found that an improved-type case with a gentle, 20 degree shoudler angle gave ballstics identical to the same capacity case with sharp, 35 degree shoulder, so the shoulder itself actually has little to do with bolt thrust. Case in point was my .260 CLC compared to the 6.5/.284- identical capacities, but very much different shoulders, with case shape, ie: taper, almost identical.
; Tom - the slower the powder, the longer the pressure curve - of course. Also- the further down the tube the pressure remains higher. It should be noted, in shotshells, shotgun powder is used. This powder is quite fast compared to rifle powders(obviously), and it can also used in some handguns.
; As to recoil comparrisons - in order to duplicate the ballistics of Reloader 15 with H4931 - you will need about 15% MORE (or more) of the slower powder - therefore it kicks more - the more you burn, the more it kicks.
; Shoot identical amounts of H4831 and Reloader #15, and the slower powder will kick less - due to it's reduced pressure and velocity. There is a cross-over point just above the RE#15 load, where steadily increasing the 4831 will begin to kick more. I'm not a physisist can't even spell it - but, I know what kicks and what doesn't. BTW- you can use shotshell powders in a 12 bore double, that will give you exits on side brain shots on Indian elephants, with cast round balls. These loads duplicate the old 7 dram heavy load.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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squirrelmonkey1
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: DarylS]
      #95756 - 02/02/08 09:14 AM

Good post Daryl,
yes, I should have refered to them as shotgun powders rather than pistol powders.
I've always refered to anything faster than say IMR 4227 as being a pistol powder...my bad.
Although I was being sarchastic about the goose, Thanks for pointing out the capability of the 12 bore on elephants ,I personally would have to see it to beleive it however. but then I know zero about shotgun performance and loading etc.
My main interest in shotguns lies on the platform of which they are constructed. more specifically
Double guns, their construction, and how they hold up to the higher pressure generated by rifle cartridges..

Tom


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Bramble
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: squirrelmonkey1]
      #95765 - 02/02/08 11:17 AM

What, powders faster than IMR 4227, like N110 and N120 Vit ?

With two or more powders that can be considered suitible at either extreme of the burning rate for a given cartridge, If velocities are comparable, barrel time is the same, peak pressure is similar.
Can you explain to me why given that total barrel time in a 22 inch barrel is around 9/10000sec, you think that the different Pt curves of either powder take say RL15-H4831 should be significant on the fulcrum stress on the action.

I do not in any event agree with your premis. If you take Data for .470 NE
("Any shot you want" Pg 576) You will note that the faster RL 15 reaches a pressure of 42,900 PSI to generate the same velocity that H4831 does at 36,100psi. An increase of 18% and in fact exceed the MAP for the cartridge.
If you are worried about stress on an action then it just got 18% worse.

Quote "Hey, bullseye will work ! why do ya think Fast burning/pistol powder is used in shotgun shells ???" End Quote

If you believe that you can safely generate 2150 fps with a charge of Bulleye behind a 500 grain head then you are in a distinguished minority.


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Marrakai
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Bramble]
      #95776 - 02/02/08 01:50 PM

Quote:

you are in a distinguished minority




Not for long, I suspect!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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squirrelmonkey1
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Marrakai]
      #95850 - 03/02/08 03:47 PM

LOL !

I don't believe, and didn't say one can safely propell a 500 gr "head" ??? projectile
at 2100 plus fps. The numbers you cite on ignition times don't mean much. stresses imparted and released during firing happen just as fast so what kind of case are you trying to make?

It is an unexplained phenomenon that slow burning powders can and do cause DR blow ups..
Matters not whether you agree with me but I'm making a case for the 3rd fastner.

Concider this theory:

slow burning powder not sufficiently expanding the case wall to the chamber wall and thus not effecting a proper gas seal..(Obturation) The result is the cartridge will then exert greater thrust.
This lack of seal is evident when the spent cases are black with powder residue and lots of unburned
powder down the barrel.

This condition is not unlike oiling the cartridge case and firing it.. like firing a proof load..
Do that enough times and fatigue will show it's teeth!

Note: This theory applies to all types of actions obviously, but due to the rather weak design
of the s x s action compared to an O/U or bolt action, will most likely have a greater negative impact on the former.

After all is said and done Most manufacturers oppt for the 3rd fastner..Hmmmm,I wonder why?

Think about it...

Edited by squirrelmonkey1 (08/02/08 01:03 AM)


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Bramble
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: squirrelmonkey1]
      #95891 - 04/02/08 03:02 AM

Quote "It is an unexplained phenomenon that slow burning powders can and do cause DR blow ups..
Matters not whether you agree with me but I'm making a case for the 3rd fastner."Un-quote.

Firstly can you please give the details of a single recorded instence of this phenonomum.

Most blowups of any kind can be traced to the use of the use of double charges of fast powders or bore obstructions. Blow ups with reduced loads are a matter of debate, but there is a body of opinion that suggests that the fast powder that occupies a small volume of the case imparts an initial imputus to the projectile. The proectile leaves the case at relitivly low velocity. The ignition of the powder then stalls as its burn rate is dependent on the chamber pressure. The projectile then stalls in the bore and the increased pressure then again increases the burning rate of the powder which is now the meeting the rear of a projectile that has a much greater inertia.
Which is why, for instence, high performance cartridges such as the Wetherbys are cut with chamber reamers that have an elongated throat or freebore. If you seat the projectile against the lands, pressures go through the roof.

Quote "Concider this theory:" end-quote.

I have, and as the tensile strength of correctly annealed cartridge brass is 19,000 psi the load would have to be seriously reduced or plainly incorrect for this to be a factor. I consider your theory to be without either merit or foundation.


Quote "Note: This theory applies to all types of actions obviously, but due to the rather weak design
of the s x s action compared to an O/U or bolt action, will most likely have a greater negative impact on the former." Un-quote



The force on the bolting of any hinge actioned gun is proportional to the distence that that force is applied from the fulcrum and the vector of that force. Therefore the top barrel of a O/U for any given force will exert more "opening" force on the action.
Thus if the force was applied exactly in line with the hinge pin then the vector would zero and the pin would simply be in shear. You could hold such a theoretical action ( although such obviously cannot be made) closed with your thumb or in a single shot action like the Ruger #1 one could hold the breachbloch in position with the finger and thumb. The further that force is perpendicually from the axis of the hinge pin the greater the tendency to force the action open rotationaly around the hinge pin axis.
Which is incidentally why the top barrel of an O/U gives greater muzzle flip than the lower.

Now give over.


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squirrelmonkey1
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Bramble]
      #95908 - 04/02/08 06:48 AM

First of all are you talking about small volume of a large case ? If so then, In fact you have it backwards regarding the fast powder providing inputus to the projectile and than stalls as it enters the rifling..

This is the case with reduced loads of SLOW powders and large capacity cases.
The pressure again rises but the projectile is lodged in the rifling and a condition similar to a plugged bore occurs. In a strong bolt action or Ruger NO.1 this condition won't do much except flatten primers or maybe pierce them but a double?
Holy shit!

The Wheatherby line of cartridges are loaded to the max case cpacity and operate at upwards of 62,000 psi. the free bore allows to bullet to move unimpeded by the friction of the rifling
thus keeping the pressure curve more gradual.
So, This is why many handloading manuals provide reduced loads whith rather fast burning powders .

Regarding the over/under, The fact that the lower barrel is essentially surounded in the action bar makes it far stronger than the sxs action and yes the top barrel may impart higher bending moments and so those in the know opt for, In the interest of safety ,a 3rd or 4 fasteners.. correct!

Your obvious knowledge of physics are still not able to explain anything away here.
Citing these principals looks good on paper to some people but it's mostly elementary.

Im just making a case for the 3rd fastener..

When I dig through my books and find the notes on the slow powder DR blow up phenomenon that I speak of I will certainly post it.
Tom

Edited by squirrelmonkey1 (04/02/08 06:53 AM)


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Bramble
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: squirrelmonkey1]
      #95921 - 04/02/08 09:16 AM

I am not going to contine to do this as I am finding it boreing, and I'm going to Africa in the morning.

You were not simply making a comment on third fastners, many of which do not touch in normal use and are a safety of last resort. The reason that they do not touch is that if they were that perfectly fitted you would not close the action, they require a clearence fit. It might be possible with a tapered pin cross bolt, alla Greener style (which is not normally tapered. However wear would soon reduce that to clearence unless the pin protruded at the start of its life to allow for wear (they do not) Dols heads cannot influence the tightness of the action unless the barrels move off the face in a straight line before they start to pivot, as the design allows free rotation around the hinge pin or again you could not open the action. One could conjecture that if an action is off the face then they will contribute, but then again if it is that far off face it needs rejointing anyway.
You are fully entitled to your opinion, this is a free forum and you may express, as the people that run it say, anything providing you do so politely.
I respect your right to hold any opinion about any rifle or anything else.
If you had written only the last two sentences of your opening post and left it at that then fine.

But you dident.

You make sweeping statments that are not borne out by the physics or general engineering principles.
This is the area for gunsmithing and building double rifles. People come here looking for knowledge and it ill behoves anybody to submit misleading information as factual statment.
And you have just done it again:

Quote "Regarding the over/under, The fact that the lower barrel is essentially surounded in the action bar makes it far stronger than the sxs action and yes the top barrel may impart higher bending moments and so those in the know opt for, In the interest of safety ,a 3rd or 4 fasteners.. correct!" End quote

What do you mean by "those in the know" Beretta make a huge number of very fine O/U's They hinge on stub pins of substancially smaller bearing surface than any s/s underlugs and are bolted without a single underlug, but two pins protruding from the action face. Ultimatly if subjected to enough stress the two sides of the action would flex and the breech be unsuported. They are however more than strong enough for their designed intention. That is the basis of engineering calculation.

As to the Weatherby's To quote Lyman 48th edition Page 284 " 416 Weatherby Magnum ..The slowest powders are ideal..For full power loads IMR 7828 is the wisest selection""

Allient recomend RL22 (website)
Hodgdon nothing faster than 4350 except for the single H414 loading for the light for calibre 300 grain Barnes.
For .470 NE Hodgdon do not go faster than H4350.

QUOTE "The Wheatherby line of cartridges are loaded to the max case cpacity and operate at upwards of 62,000 psi. the free bore allows to bullet to move unimpeded by the friction of the rifling
thus keeping the pressure curve more gradual." END

Do you see the contridiction. You are acknowledging after I raised it, what Weatherby's know due to their development work, they require a slower Pt curve. Two posts above you are advocating powders that

Quote "The faster the rise and fall in pressure the better. " End

You are advising RL 15 and faster, for applications not recommended by the manufacturers themselves.
If you want to do it, it is a free world and many of us do it or similar things based on our own risk/benifit assesments. I have a 6mm BR Ruger #1 running loads I wouldent publish anywhere, give to anybody else to shoot and certainly not advocate.


It bothers me not the slightest what you think of me, but when you write, Quote "Citing these principals looks good on paper to some people but it's mostly elementary." You are wrong. Lots of people come here with little knowledge seeking enlightenment. You are putting them at risk.

You were incorrect about the pressure required to obdurate a chamber with a brass case, perhaps you are better informed now, although you are not likley to admit it in print. Stick around here a while and there is loads of interesting information and stories and some great people, some of whom I have been privilidged to meet.

IMHO ( see polite) What you are doing is silly.

I wish you well for your trip to Cameroun.

Best wishes


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squirrelmonkey1
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Bramble]
      #95940 - 04/02/08 12:46 PM

You didn't clarify my first question to you ?

I'm still laughing that you think im putting people at risk!
For what!!Recommending a third fastener?? c'mon get serious !

Second, I concure with your statement on the weatherby but that didn't have anything to do with the statement you made prior. ! you were trying to explain another blow up scenerio citing notes on an entirely different rifle cartridge combination.
I did'nt contradict myself there ..
One can't compare cartridges loaded for and chambered in strong actions such as bolt or modern falling blocks, to those that are to be fed into SxS Double rifles.
we are talking 2 entirely different applications of powder to action types.
Regarding the brass ? I didn't cite any pressure numbers ? Ackley's book volume 1 pg 95 is a place to start maybe you'll learn something !

"The faster the better on the pressure curve" pertains to the use of the DR action and or reduced loads in large capacity cases.
Without doing the math i.e expansion ratios, bore capacities etc.. I would say the loadings in big bore nitro's are infact reduced loads in large capacity cases...sound reasonable ?
I don't have any experience with beretta arms other than with the 302 semi auto 12 ga and it's junk where handloads are concerned. IMO of course.
Hopefully the 302 that I had isn't a true measure of their engineering expertise. My opinion.

I don't claim to be an expert at anything other than at my day job, as should we all be, and I'm surely no expert at gun making but I built an excellent 500/450 3 1/4" magnum double that's both functional and finely finished (yet to be BluedBrownedblackend ) including the stock work on a quality suhl action with nothing other than a copy of A. Grey's book "The Hammerless double rifle" for reference.
I'm not trained in gun making but I've built guns ranging in "belt buckle pistols" to "full scale exact replica Muzzleloading artillery" , so I have learned a few things along the way believe it or not...
I'll get some photos up so you won't think I'm full of it!

Tom

Edited by squirrelmonkey1 (04/02/08 01:04 PM)


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Bramble
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: squirrelmonkey1]
      #95944 - 04/02/08 01:45 PM

As I have said before you have not just suggested the use of a third fastner action.

You have told people that O/U actions are more suitible for DR's than S/S, encouraged the use of powders that are not recommended by the powder manufacturers themselves. Including god help us Bullseye.

That puts people at risk. It is factually incorrect

I was not using another cartridge as an exemplar regarding double rifles, but as a clearly documented example of the effects of frictional inertia on chamber pressure and I think it will be read as such.

What makes you say that NE loadings are reduced loads in large cases. 113 gns of H4831 fills a 450#2 case to within 3/16 of the neck. What is reduced about that?

If you have built a 500/450 3 1/4 Magnum, then that is a black powder cartridge and you are discussing apples and oranges as far as chamber pressures and the effects of such are concerned. It is half the power of the similar bore NE cartridges.
If you are using smokeless powders to make NFB loads, then indeed they are reduced loadings in a large case, perhaps this is where you are labouring under a misaprehension.

Off to the airport now. Have fun with this whilst I am away.

Regards


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squirrelmonkey1
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Bramble]
      #95950 - 04/02/08 02:53 PM

By design O/U are stronger period ! And, I didn't suggest to anyone to use one ?
Personally, I think they look like....

I do use RL 15 in my double and it works great ! so I would recomend that powder to others.

And on one point I do stand corrected however, My chambering is simply the nitro express rather then the BPE "magnum"
Thanks for clearing that up.
btw. You still haven't conceded that you were in error on that former statement regarding the "Fast powder in a large case" on LIST but rather chose to subdue that with some fluid .. ! hmmm.
It's OK I understand, because I work with hordes of engineers and when layman like me challenge them, they seem to crumble !!
He He I eat them for breakfast !! mmm love'in It !! lol

Be sure top pick up a set of ACKLEY'S books, you'll have time to do some research while your on the plane.

Tom


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Judson
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: squirrelmonkey1]
      #96166 - 07/02/08 09:45 AM


In the book Shooting The British Double Rifle by Wright you will find lots of loading info. Most of the loads listed for the big cases like the .450#2 N.E. show 4831 powder or RL-15. The info in the book seems to point to powders like 3031 with heavy bullets as occasionally blowing doubles. Most of these bigger cases will need a filler and with out one you will probably have problems, maby even popping a barrel. If you need a filler try foam as was suggested to me by NE450#2 the stuff works great!!

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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450_366
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Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Judson]
      #96973 - 18/02/08 07:32 AM

Quote:


In the book Shooting The British Double Rifle by Wright you will find lots of loading info. Most of the loads listed for the big cases like the .450#2 N.E. show 4831 powder or RL-15. The info in the book seems to point to powders like 3031 with heavy bullets as occasionally blowing doubles. Most of these bigger cases will need a filler and with out one you will probably have problems, maby even popping a barrel. If you need a filler try foam as was suggested to me by NE450#2 the stuff works great!!




Perhaps the problem with slow powder "blasting" doubles comes as you stated from people using them whitout the filler, and its right that a fast powder will work better in a large case but it also seems that they need more pressure to perform at the same rate. Some slow powder are as i heard a bit funny if the pressure doesent rise fast enough.

I dont think a o/u are stronger but as they are built with the "hinge" as close to the centre of the barrels as possible, the tendancy to open the action is less. On the early days beretta tied the barrels close only with a cloth to show the superior of the construction. Anyway they make an ugly DR.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3522
Loc: Colorado
Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: 450_366]
      #97737 - 27/02/08 11:47 AM

I have seen Westley Richards guns with only a "third" fastener
and just came upon an article of Ross Seyfreid's in an issue
of DGJ which mentions that this 10ga. gun is still tight after
125 years' use. Picture below.
Makes me wonder in which plane the forces of firing a double
are actually in. With all of the variables such as fasteners,
bar length, hinge pin location etc. it seems very difficult to say
which design is the best. This single lump, single fastener
system would seem woefully inadequate today, but I suggest WR
knew what they were doing. Although, as mentioned above, double
rifles and shotguns behave very differently.



--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Gary6034
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Reged: 15/11/07
Posts: 7
Loc: United States
Re: Shotgun with a hidden third fastener? [Re: Huvius]
      #98895 - 10/03/08 12:30 PM

Huvius,

Nice pictures...As a matter of fact, I just bought a 10 gauge Anson & Deeley with almost that same setup, except mine has a longer table and a double-lug bite. It has the dolls head third fastener as well. I see a lot of promiss with this setup. It's going to require a lot of work, but I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be a great project gun as a plan to fit new 10 gauge barrels to it and 500 N.E. barrel via a monoblock.

One issue is that I'm having a little trouble located an barrel maker for the 10 gauge shotgun barrel blanks. Does anyone know of a company I can turn to?

Edited by Gary6034 (10/03/08 12:32 PM)


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