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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Wayne
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Reged: 25/04/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Montana
Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle
      #78030 - 05/05/07 02:30 PM

A number or years ago I had the pleasure of conversing with Mr. Searcy over the phone. It was at the beginning of the time when the company had started manufacturing their own action with CNC machinery as Mr. Searcy was very proud of. There were several things that I remeber from the converstaion, however one item bothers me to this day. Mr. Searcy somewhat detailed the manufacture of his double rifle. He also said he had a great deal of experience with the space program. Searcy went on to say that the fastening mechanism that was used to attach the reentry panels on the space shuttle was the same adhesive used to replace silver solder and solder application needs on his double rifle. This included the extensive work required for the barrels and ribs. Searcy was elusive as to the exact nature of this attaching method, but did go to great lengths to exclaim that it was not a glue, paste, epoxy or thermally adhered product. He also said that the attaching product when applied, infiltrated the graine structure of both parent materials and thus perfomed an attachment that was one of the strongest known to man.


In my travels as a master machinist and mechanical engineer this miracle adhesive has never been discovered or found.

As this may sound on the edge of the cliff, it really happened.

Can anyone out there add to this or verify this?


Wayne

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Yochanan
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Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Wayne]
      #78039 - 05/05/07 08:31 PM

Wayne

Very interesting, I had not idea such miracle bondo existed.

Didn't the Kalifornia based Rouge River Rigby company use a similar method in assembling their doubles?

Johan

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
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Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Yochanan]
      #78040 - 05/05/07 09:30 PM

It is actually a well-known product, unobtainium. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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Carpetsahib
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Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Wayne]
      #78089 - 06/05/07 12:31 PM

Some more or less exotic materials will diffusion bond. I believe titanium is one. Diffusion bonds are accomplished at elevated temperatures in protective atmospheres or vacuum, but do not involve melting, brazing, soldering or adhesives. When clean surfaces are placed in close proximity, the component atoms will actually diffuse across the intervening gap and eventually bridge the gaps.


That being said, I somehow doubt that Mr. Searcy is actually using materials that can be bonded in this manner.

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Wayne
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Reged: 25/04/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Montana
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #78093 - 06/05/07 01:38 PM

The material used was distinct from the parent material. Applied like a appoxy but not epoxy because infiltrated the grain structure. Mr. Searcy was foxy about this issue like it was some sort of trade secret. When one poders the idea, it does kind of sound like storys of perpetual motion machines.

Say, I ran into a entire bushel basket of Rouge River Rigby Company/Evolution double rifle parts. Thats another story. What a mess.

Wayne

You cant always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Wayne]
      #78106 - 06/05/07 05:03 PM

Not commenting on the pros and cons of it at all, but I remember a lot of guys really canning US made Rigbys for supposedly using some sort of "glue" on the barrels.

Funny if it turned out to be the same stuff or process.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mickey
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Posts: 4647
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Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Wayne]
      #78135 - 07/05/07 03:11 AM

Quote:

The material used was distinct from the parent material. Applied like a appoxy but not epoxy because infiltrated the grain structure. Mr. Searcy was foxy about this issue like it was some sort of trade secret. When one poders the idea, it does kind of sound like storys of perpetual motion machines.

Say, I ran into a entire bushel basket of Rouge River Rigby Company/Evolution double rifle parts. Thats another story. What a mess.

Wayne

You can't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need!



Wayne

Are you sure you are speaking of Butch Searcy and not Geoff Miller?

Quote:

Say, I ran into a entire bushel basket of Rouge River Rigby Company/Evolution double rifle parts. Thats another story. What a mess.



You can't let this go without an explanation.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: mickey]
      #78136 - 07/05/07 03:45 AM


Mickey

" Say, I ran into a entire bushel basket of Rouge River Rigby Company/Evolution double rifle parts. Thats another story. What a mess.

You can't let this go without an explanation."


I was going to say the same thing.

Hell, if I looked in any of my gunsmiths bins you do see a heap of messy parts.

An explantion would be good.

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Carpetsahib
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Reged: 29/04/07
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Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Wayne]
      #78846 - 18/05/07 11:11 AM

Loctite has a product - Loctite 620 - that is supposed to replace silver solder in many applications. On their website, they indicate that this product is used to bond shotgun barrels in monoblocks, forend hangers and rib hangers in NCP Products' Trap shotguns. I think this is what Mr. Searcy may be using. Supposedly, exposure to blueing salts at 300F has no deleterious effect upon the bond, and the bond strength is around 60% that of silver solder.

The Loctite 620 product is an anaerobic adhesive that cures in the absence of oxygen. Assembly of a barrel to a monoblock would be very simple, fast and inexpensive. Other products, such as epoxies, could be used to bond ribs to barrels very successfully. It might be something to consider in a double gun conversion project.

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Wayne
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Reged: 25/04/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Montana
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #79035 - 20/05/07 01:23 PM

Explanation:

Aproximately 3 months ago while working on a old stevens 410 single barrel a search was made for a firing pin. Didn't want to ask the lathe for one so I stroled into the a local gun smith which was on the way to work but up to this time never visited because of just moveing to town 1.5 years previous. It was a typical gun smith shop, guns were not sold here just created and serviced. The smith was reserved an looked for a pin, but to no avail. Turning away from the couinter to leave I tuned back and said have you ever build a DR which seemed to liven him up. Yes he had built several in conjuction with a aquantence one even in 577NE. He went on to explain that they had come into posession of a number of parts for building DR. From these parts several rifles had been born and there were still parts remaining in the white and not assembled. Not wanting to be over bearing I remained reserved however, inside, I was bursting a the seems to get a look at these gens of two barrel gold. I stopped in later and asked to view the parts after a conversation about general gun smithing and associated interest. Eventually the items were on the counter for my perusal.

A oily old box was filled with box lock actions in diferent stages from raugh casting to finished. Every combination and quantiy of double rifle clock work was in that box: ribs, bolt , forarm iron, furnature, levers, triggers, barrels, mono-blocks springs and so forth.

The actions were 3 fastener the third being a dolls head that shouldn't even be used to couple lionel trains, but there it was. Maybe it worked but the geometry wasnt there, every has an idea. A interesting issue with the actions that has been machined is that TIG welding had been performed on them to thicken the gussets and on the water table. Unother interesting matter was that the machined actions were not set up for rifle fireing pins. The tags and pistol gip steel had been lentheded by welding on steel strip.

The most striking situation was a mostly assembled rifle that had a problem.

More to this later.

Wayne

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Wayne
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Reged: 25/04/07
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Loc: Montana
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: mickey]
      #79158 - 22/05/07 01:09 PM

Mickey:

Ii was Butch Searcy that this conversation was with. I also know Geoff Miller of Rigby and spoke to him once for the first time several months ago.

Wayne

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Butch_Searcy
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Reged: 28/03/04
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Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Wayne]
      #79746 - 02/06/07 04:05 AM

Wayne, your full of shit. That has never even entered my mind let alone do it. Your memory must be gone.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Butch_Searcy]
      #79758 - 02/06/07 05:05 AM



Butch

Welcome to the forum.

Hope you are able to return and comment / post on other things
as well as your insight would be most welcome.

500Nitro

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577express
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Reged: 18/02/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Wayne]
      #79824 - 03/06/07 10:23 AM

Its just my opinion but his DR's are not very pleasing to the eye.

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: 577express]
      #79830 - 03/06/07 10:33 AM

This one looks pretty good:



And here is a target shot with a Searcy double:

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: 577express]
      #79831 - 03/06/07 10:38 AM

Quote:

Its just my opinion but his DR's are not very pleasing to the eye.




577
That's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion
and in some ways I agree.

However, the thread was based along the lines of using glue,
not whether they looked any good or not !

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
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Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: Butch_Searcy]
      #79835 - 03/06/07 12:44 PM

Quote:

Wayne, your full of shit. That has never even entered my mind let alone do it. Your memory must be gone.



Wondered how long that was going to take. What fairy tales.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #79847 - 03/06/07 04:34 PM




I think this thread has probably run it's course.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39261
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Mr. Searcy and trhe Space Shuttle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #79855 - 03/06/07 09:05 PM

Yep I'll close this thread now.

Butch has refuted the claim of using some sort of glue.

I asked him if he wanted to put some more comments and as he hasn't I think the topic here is not going to become any more information.

Case closed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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