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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381439 - 21/12/23 09:13 AM

I followed the instructions, but I can't seem to post the photos.

Do the above new links work, they are different to the original ones and the site says anyone can view these?

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39502
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381441 - 21/12/23 11:42 AM

No, they try to open something on my tablet itself. I'm too busy at the moment tbtomeoit for you

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4972
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: NitroX]
      #381444 - 21/12/23 01:04 PM

The last lot open for me.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26692
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: Rule303]
      #381449 - 22/12/23 03:01 AM

The last 3 pictures of groups on page 2 open for me as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by DarylS (22/12/23 03:02 AM)


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381454 - 22/12/23 07:10 AM

I deleted the original links.

The second set seem to work, for some?

I am hoping to make the 100M outdoor range today.

Just for giggles/curiosity I also fired some other loads, 520gr, 21.3gr of 2205, 530gr, 22gr 2205 and 300gr Federal commercial rounds.

All the 500's hit the black at 50M and the 300's were about 6 inches above the black about 4 inches apart.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

Edited by TonyD227 (22/12/23 07:15 AM)


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4078
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381455 - 22/12/23 07:41 AM

As you're finding out mate - it's all about timing!
The bigger projectiles will go thru your bore at a slower speed & hence different impact point.
If you can shoot off a rest at 100m do so with it being in your hand, that way it will naturally let the rifle recoil instead of off a sandbag rest.


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #381462 - 22/12/23 03:39 PM

OK so shot off a rest, rifle in hand and hand on the bag, at 50M & 85M (the 50M indoors were off a rest to).

Here are the 50 and 85M targets.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/S42UNqVTMenKkaCc7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Rsu5YtKh2wvEc3ty9

Left and right barrel seem to be crossing by 85M but it's still a lot better than before where the left barrel would be on the 10 ring at 85M and the right would be on the left edge of the target (the white edge).

So, I would say I have minute of Pig at 85M.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26692
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381468 - 23/12/23 03:59 AM

What was this load Tony, for the last 2 targets, 50 and 85M?
You are very close to having them print together @ 50. Then at 100, they would be parallel, but crossed.
I think same bullet, just a little more powder or higher speed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381472 - 23/12/23 07:04 AM

Quote:

What was this load Tony, for the last 2 targets, 50 and 85M?
You are very close to having them print together @ 50. Then at 100, they would be parallel, but crossed.
I think same bullet, just a little more powder or higher speed.




The load is a 405gr projectile (HRBC) and 34gr of 2207 for about 14/1450fps. It's similar to the PPU 405 commercial round.

I am going to do some loading today so will try some with 38 and 40gr of 2207.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26692
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381485 - 24/12/23 04:53 AM

I would try 36, 38 and 40. But, that's just me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381495 - 24/12/23 02:29 PM

OK so faster makes the cross over worse.

Below are 405gr with 38gr 2207 and its not real flash.

The other is my Sharps load of a 520gr with 21.3gr of 2205 (about 1100fps).

It definitely prefers big and slow (sounds just like me).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wqDADxCD1zGFNZnp8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RnxCfjHD9wFj9mHa7

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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m239
.275 member


Reged: 13/09/17
Posts: 74
Loc: Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381502 - 24/12/23 09:54 PM

The 2205 looks good.

Hope you’ve got plenty of it in reserve.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26692
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: m239]
      #381512 - 25/12/23 03:22 AM

Interesting. Appears so on the low and slow. Well, you don't know for sure, until you try. I would try bumping those 500's to get them closer. They are diverging/spreading at that range.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381518 - 25/12/23 07:06 AM

I have a bottle and a half of 2205 left but might try a low 2207 load with 500's and see how that goes.

I wrote to ADI mid this year and they replied that 2205 would be back late this year, they're leaving it right to the end.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4078
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381520 - 25/12/23 07:10 AM

Quote:

I have a bottle and a half of 2205 left but might try a low 2207 load with 500's and see how that goes.

I wrote to ADI mid this year and they replied that 2205 would be back late this year, they're leaving it right to the end.




Tony - they've been saying it would be back since 2022!
Yanking everyone's chain here.
Lets hope you're right though, got to feed that hungry 45/70 of yours!


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Hunter4752001
.300 member


Reged: 25/01/10
Posts: 129
Loc: Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #381522 - 25/12/23 11:30 AM

Forget AR2205 until you actually see it on the shelves and don't believe a thing Thales claim.

Numerous rumours were circulated about the issues with pistol powders. In reality (and publicly admitted by Thales), Thales licenced the production to General Dynamics in Canada who now supply it to Hodgdon for the US market (Clays, International, Universal).

Thales' main customer for AR2205 was Hodgdon who marketed it in the US, variously as H4227 and later as IMR4227 (Hodgdon hold the rights to the name IMR4227 and can label anything they like as such). Lately I've seen photos of jugs of IMR4227 with 'Made in Canada' on the label. Possible that Thales sold production rights to General Dynamics Canada and don't give a crap about Australian customers.

No secret that Thales and General Dynamics are in partnership for a number of high end defence products. So the question remains did Thales sacrifice their Australian powder customers as part of the quid pro quo for their other endeavours?

The "Winchester" ball powders are actually manufactured by General Dynamics Florida with distributions rights owned by Hodgdon. Olin Corp (Winchester) has a significant commercial relationship with Thales. Olin Corp (Winchester) whereby Olin manufactures all the 9mm and some of the 5.56mm ammo which Thales then supplies to the ADF. Olin Corp (Winchester) Australia are a significant distributor of Thales powder in Australia and stopped importing Winchester branded ball powders.

Of course there's no market manipulation or cartel behaviour going on......


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26692
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: Hunter4752001]
      #381537 - 26/12/23 05:08 AM

I have an unopened can of IMR4227 that is in a steel can. It was sold to a friend when he asked for Black Powder. Go figure. I also have part cans of both H and IMR 4227 from 40 or more years ago.
Although some old books give data for 4227 and the .45/70, but that is not a powder I would use even for light loads. My bro has a light load he likes for cowboy action challenges using his 86 Winchester. 31gr. 4198 & 420gr. cast bullet. Soft shooting and very accurate.


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381540 - 26/12/23 08:22 AM

I shoot some Pat Garret here in Aust and am lucky to still have an unopened Trail Boss (1.5kg or 3.3lb) and a 1/4 of an opened tub, so that's still my slow fun 45/70 load.

I also still have a year or so of 2205 left but yes, I am not holding my breath.

I found a few boxes of 500gr round noses so am going to try 28, 30 and 32gr of 2207 (same as H4198) and see how that goes. I got those loads from the Hogdon part of the 45/70 One Book, One Caliber (it was for 485gr proj but they are trapdoor loads so will be safe in the DR).

Might be a while before I can test it as the local range is closed for repairs (road works that are long due).

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39502
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: Hunter4752001]
      #381545 - 26/12/23 04:11 PM

Quote:

Forget AR2205 until you actually see it on the shelves and don't believe a thing Thales claim.

Numerous rumours were circulated about the issues with pistol powders. In reality (and publicly admitted by Thales), Thales licenced the production to General Dynamics in Canada who now supply it to Hodgdon for the US market (Clays, International, Universal).

Thales' main customer for AR2205 was Hodgdon who marketed it in the US, variously as H4227 and later as IMR4227 (Hodgdon hold the rights to the name IMR4227 and can label anything they like as such). Lately I've seen photos of jugs of IMR4227 with 'Made in Canada' on the label. Possible that Thales sold production rights to General Dynamics Canada and don't give a crap about Australian customers.

No secret that Thales and General Dynamics are in partnership for a number of high end defence products. So the question remains did Thales sacrifice their Australian powder customers as part of the quid pro quo for their other endeavours?

The "Winchester" ball powders are actually manufactured by General Dynamics Florida with distributions rights owned by Hodgdon. Olin Corp (Winchester) has a significant commercial relationship with Thales. Olin Corp (Winchester) whereby Olin manufactures all the 9mm and some of the 5.56mm ammo which Thales then supplies to the ADF. Olin Corp (Winchester) Australia are a significant distributor of Thales powder in Australia and stopped importing Winchester branded ball powders.

Of course there's no market manipulation or cartel behaviour going on......




Dry up ammunition and ammunition components and you strangle shooters.

Especially powder, primers and loaded ammunition which cannot be posted.

Thank God for Woodleigh and Bertram.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: NitroX]
      #381577 - 27/12/23 01:12 PM

At the indoor 50M range. I really must stop using this but the outdoor range is closed until mid Jan.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TyEmcKWwgzCq1GKY6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/N4ChGy79LV5pyipU6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zkJiadho5QTaZSdM9

The 520 with 21.3 of 2205 was pretty good but I am hoping I can get something a bit more powerful working when I go out to 100M (or 85M at the local range).

Edited by TonyD227 (27/12/23 01:13 PM)


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #383822 - 01/04/24 05:21 PM

Finally got a chance to try the 500's at 85M

I think I will stick with the 32gr 2207. The FPS was the left barrel only which is about 10-20FPS faster than the right barrel.

I don't know what happened with the 30gr? (that's the one with no writing on it).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UpZ85QmPuiK2QHPo9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VtbzvPMMueXocodC6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZDbFUdqgLbj4Rhor6

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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