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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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m239
.275 member


Reged: 13/09/17
Posts: 74
Loc: Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #379647 - 26/09/23 07:30 PM

Well done Tony - keen to hear how it goes.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39502
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: m239]
      #379650 - 26/09/23 07:37 PM

We need an Australian gunsmith contacts list on NE. And specialities.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4972
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: NitroX]
      #379661 - 27/09/23 07:52 AM

Quote:

We need an Australian gunsmith contacts list on NE. And specialities.




That is a good idea.


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m239
.275 member


Reged: 13/09/17
Posts: 74
Loc: Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: Rule303]
      #379666 - 27/09/23 09:43 AM

great idea

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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: m239]
      #379861 - 05/10/23 08:51 PM

I am taking the Sabatti to Tamworth tomorrow.

I will let you all know how it goes.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4078
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #379868 - 05/10/23 10:25 PM

All the best Tony, hope the job goes well!

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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #379900 - 08/10/23 04:20 PM

Dropped it off yesterday and had a chat.

He is off OS soon and won't get to work on it until he gets back in 3 weeks.

He does the warranty work for Perazzi shotguns and is off to their factory.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #380924 - 04/12/23 08:08 PM

Job hasnt been done yet.

Probably be a couple more weeks.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4078
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #380936 - 05/12/23 06:45 AM

Would be a nice Christmas pressie if it did!

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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #381229 - 14/12/23 03:33 PM

It looks like I am getting my Christmas present

I got this email today:

The barrels are now soaking in protective oils. Due to the vagaries of the calibre and nature of thin European barrels it took 2 visits to the range and 2 regulation blocks to get the barrels converging past normal regulation of 65m. All shooting is done off hand and we achieved a free hand shot spread at 100m of 150m. Obviously the sights are very difficult to be accurate with but we were fairly pleased with the outcome. The rifle still shoots high and really could do with a higher front (not practicable) or higher rear (no more adjustment left).

That said, I am sure you can be fairly accurate once you are sure of its impact points.

Thank you for the work and attached is the invoice. I was able to bring the regulation in lower than originally thought and then there is the blacking/ finishing and consumables to be catered for.


It was $1,176.

I asked if he had any targets but haven't heard back from him and I am assuming the 150m at 100m is a typo and its prob 150mm? I am also a little confused about the comment on front and back sights could be higher (if its shooting high I would have thought higher front or lower rear?).

I have paid the invoice and so hopefully will get it before Christmas and I will let you know how I go with some tests at various ranges.

If you're wondering about the sights the rear is a Skinner adjustable ring sight that Andy Larsson made for me (he owns a Sabatti DR as well). The front is a tall post with a brass bead set in the top.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

Edited by TonyD227 (14/12/23 03:35 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39502
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381240 - 14/12/23 07:43 PM

I'd hope for better than six inches at a hundred metres if having the barrels reregulated. Assuming the 150 m at 100 m was that.

For a .45/70 I guess its usable though, as its not a long range rifle.

How does each barrel group? If they group far better, the angling of the barrels to make them coincide should be done.

Hope it works out for you.

PS yes get copies of pictures of the "groups" before they finish everything up.

PPS Im thinking the 6 inches is a completely off hand shooting group at 100 metres. The free hand, unsupported etc comments. I think a supported hand on a rest would be used for testing shooting a regulating rifle.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (14/12/23 07:46 PM)


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26692
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: NitroX]
      #381248 - 15/12/23 05:20 AM

6" offhand would be just fine for a group with a DR. BUT - what is the load?
Is it a deer load only?
I've not seen ANY factory ammo that was worth a hoot as far as power is concerned.
There was an outfit in the USA who made some decent .45/70 ammo, but haven't heard of them lately.
IIRC they had a 400gr. solid and soft running 1,900fps or so.
My Pedersoli 1886/71 likes a hard cast 450gr.FP at 1,600fps. That's a decent moose/elk load (which I don't hunt any more LOL).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
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Loc: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Z...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381249 - 15/12/23 07:08 AM

Rather careless email in respects the group sizing and more importantly referring to the rear sight needing to be HIGHER to bring the POI down. Hopefully both are typos, the latter statement would have me questioning the credentials of the gunsmith. Shooting off hand to check regulation is also surprising in that results are very dependent on the ability of the shooter. Like John I would be expecting the forehand to be supported. How many of us would check the grouping ability of any rifle or gun by shooting unsupported offhand at 100m????

Surprising also is the rather nonchalant response to the gun shooting high. I would have thought some correspondence from the gunsmith to ascertain if you wanted some work done to the sights to remedy this or alternatively look at the cartridge loading to achieve a lower POI. Obviously changing the load could affect the regulation. Was the gun shooting high before it went to the gunsmith? If so then tweaking the load to lower the POI should have been done before sending for regulation?

I wouldn't be overly enthused about the work although I guess with short range cast bullet use it may suffice.


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TonyD227
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Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381253 - 15/12/23 04:35 PM

Quote:

. BUT - what is the load?
).




I made the rounds for the regulation.

Its a 405gr hard cast with 34gr of ADI 2207 (Australian powder same as H4198). Its doing about 1450fps.

This was the most accurate load I came up with for my rifle and it will handle anything in Australia.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: eagle27]
      #381254 - 15/12/23 04:37 PM

Quote:



Was the gun shooting high before it went to the gunsmith? If so then tweaking the load to lower the POI should have been done before sending for regulation?






It was shooting pretty well smack on at 50M.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381255 - 15/12/23 04:40 PM

The guns on its way.

I will give it a good run when I get it back and let you know how it went.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26692
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Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381263 - 16/12/23 05:15 AM

Looking forward to your 'finding's.
With the slow moving bullets, a slightly higher vel. should bring the elevation down somewhat, without hurting the regulation - maybe?
I am sure the gun smith meant "lower" rear sight.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4078
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381268 - 16/12/23 06:11 AM

Quote:

Looking forward to your 'finding's.
With the slow moving bullets, a slightly higher vel. should bring the elevation down somewhat, without hurting the regulation - maybe?
I am sure the gun smith meant "lower" rear sight.




That will certainly be the case Tony as Daryl has described!
A small change in velocity can have quite a large difference in impact point, even a powder change can vary group size & shape remarkably; so just a small tweak might be all you need to get velocity up & your new Chrissy present on target without playing with the sights!
Best of luck mate!


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TonyD227
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Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #381345 - 18/12/23 01:31 PM

I got it back today and I have to admit it looks good.

Will try and get to the range tomorrow.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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TonyD227
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Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381411 - 20/12/23 08:19 AM

Well not too bad.

I shot it at an indoor range at 50M and while the light there is terrible (there is a big spotlight running right down the middle and the black circle disappears at 50M), the results werent that bad.


The photos show two groups and a six shot string. All are in the black at 50M and all had the right barrel printing to the right of the left barrel.

Dont pay too much attention to the height of the two groups in one of them, as I said the black circle was pretty hard to see at times.



--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

Edited by TonyD227 (22/12/23 07:10 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39502
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Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381415 - 20/12/23 12:22 PM

I can't view the photos. Anyone else?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4078
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: NitroX]
      #381423 - 20/12/23 10:35 PM

Sadly No photos!

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26692
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #381428 - 21/12/23 12:36 AM

probably "broken" links - something missing.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #381435 - 21/12/23 08:40 AM

sorry, I can open them by clicking on them. They are on Google photos, I will try again.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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TonyD227
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #381436 - 21/12/23 08:48 AM

https://photos.app.goo.gl/j8QPo7tceqs6NWcX9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7RpxeEFsioBdXDZo9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MCi4tPtRe2Spf62p7

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.


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