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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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doubleriflejack
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Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle
      #191023 - 30/09/11 05:32 AM

In the very early 1970s, Max Gera, I think originally from Europe, but living in Azusa, California, began working as gunsmith for Pachmayr Gun Works, Los Angeles. Soon after, he was "discovered" by Harry Sanford of the Auto. Mag. Corporation, who had him design the rotary bolt .44 mag. automatic handgun. Max Gera set up his own shop, eventually hiring seven workers, to make custom double rifles, for most all rimmed and rimless cartridges. They machined actions from 8620L steel, and used a Long Beach, Calif. stockmaker, Engelbert Olafson, to make some of their stocks. In 1998, I saw a .458 Winchester double rifle, with 26 inch barrels, made by Gera Arms, being sold by Mike Weatherby.
Does anyone know anything about this maker, or about his double rifles?


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lancaster
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #191165 - 02/10/11 06:47 PM

the name sounds very german if this is a good sign for you

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #202648 - 16/02/12 12:07 PM

I recently found this post and I find it very interesting because I know everything about Max Gera.
That's because I am Max Gera.
I am amazed at how much information doubleriflejack has about me and my rifles. Most of it is quite correct.

Max

Edited by MaxGera (16/02/12 12:09 PM)


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tophet1
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #202651 - 16/02/12 12:38 PM

Welcome to Nitro Express Max.

I'd invite you to bring us up to date on your current operation, tell us a bit more about yourself and display some of your work.

Cheers,

John


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #202677 - 16/02/12 05:33 PM

Quote:

I recently found this post and I find it very interesting because I know everything about Max Gera.
That's because I am Max Gera.
I am amazed at how much information doubleriflejack has about me and my rifles. Most of it is quite correct.

Max




Welcome.

I'm sure people would be interested in seeing some of your work, and what you are doing today.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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tinker
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #202715 - 16/02/12 11:53 PM

Welcome to the site Max!





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: tinker]
      #202739 - 17/02/12 05:40 AM

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the welcome. I'll try to give you a quick run-down on what I am doing:

I am sort of semi-retired and do a limited amount of custom work. Most of it is related to the Auto Mag pistol. For those that don't know what an Auto Mag is, it was the first semiautomatic pistol that could fire a version of the .44 Magnum. I designed it in 1969. There is plenty of information on it on the web.
I mostly make custom barrels and carbine conversion kits for the Auto Mag. I recently designed an improved bolt system and hope to market it with complete barrels assemblies.

I built my last double rifle in 1974. However, old habits die hard... so I am working now on a .700 Nitro Express. In fact, this morning I finished grinding the hinge radius on the receiver. The reason that I choose the .700 is that it will probably be the last on that I make, so I figure... may as well make it a big one.

As soon as I figure out how to post pictures here, I will do so.

Max

Edited by MaxGera (17/02/12 05:50 AM)


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doubleriflejack
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #202742 - 17/02/12 06:40 AM

Wow, what a delightful surprise to see THE Max Gera post to this website, following my long standing inquiry seeking information about him, with nothing learned. It seemed that nobody knew a thing about this Max Gera, and the very few people who once knew anything about him, in the 1970s or so, forgot it all.

For a good long number of years, I have collected data of all kinds about anything having to do with double rifles, thus, in the early 1970s, when I learned about Max and his double rifle building, I saved what information I could gain.

Max, if you don't mind, could you eventually share with us, or with me via PM, details about your materials and methods used in your double rifle making venture years ago? I understand that you did some conversions too, double shotguns to double rifles, so could you summarize that process for those of us who do such conversion work? I also understand that you machined some actions from 8620L steel. If that is correct, did you ever machine any other steel type for double rifle actions? I assume that you machined your own monoblocks for those double rifle actions, and if so, did you thread barrels into the monoblocks full length, or only partly into the monoblocks, and/or did you solder the barrels into the monoblocks too? W. Ellis Brown, who wrote book on conversions of double shotguns to double rifles, is now a contributor to this website. I took class from him, on this process, in Gunsmithing school, prior to his writing his book, so I would like to understand the "Max Gera method" for doing this, to see if I can learn new things regarding that process, and learn details about how Max built double rifles from scratch too. I am sure that others would like to learn these things as well.


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #202756 - 17/02/12 01:00 PM

Hi Doubleriflejack,

I'll try to answer some of your questions. First, I only made one shotgun conversion. It was a 45-70 and I used an Ithaca SKB 20 gauge. I made this one for my own use a couple of years before I started Gera Arms. There were no instructions those days and I pretty much winged it. I made a quarter rib for the sights and had a sheet metal shop stamp me a few concave rib blanks and I think I adapted a standard rifle ramp front sight. I used the knowledge gained to later design my double rifles.

I machined all of the parts for the doubles except for the trigger guards. I bought suitable trigger guards somewhere. The barrels were soldered into the monoblock without any threads. I used 8620 for color case hardened receivers and 4140 for the blue ones.

I made only about a dozen rifles and if I recall correctly they were only in .270 W and .458 WM.

Since I am making another double now, if someone shows me how to post pictures, I' be happy to post work in progress on it.

Max

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!

Edited by MaxGera (18/02/12 03:34 AM)


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ruffcountry
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #202758 - 17/02/12 01:14 PM

Welcome Mr. Gera . Hope you can find time to share with us .

Edit
Oops , looks like he did so while i was typing .

Edited by ruffcountry (18/02/12 12:43 PM)


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tophet1
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: ruffcountry]
      #202759 - 17/02/12 01:53 PM

Can the mods help Max out with posting pictures ?

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doubleriflejack
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #202816 - 18/02/12 06:12 AM

Hi, Max. Thank you so much for responding to my inquiry; I appreciate it a lot. For a good number of years, I have often wondered about your technical ideas and practices in your double rifle making venture years ago in California. Perhaps you were ahead of the times in that effort, because at that time, double rifles in this country were not well thought of, while today the whole subject of double rifles is red hot, and has been for quite a few years lately, with as many or more modern double rifles being made worldwide than ever before. Double rifle makers Searcy and Rigby, both in California, seem to be doing well the last several years, and I suspect that you too would be doing the same, had you begun your double rifle building venture in more recent years.

If you wouldn't mind, I would like to know how you initially learned the skill and trade that you have, what formal training you had, as well as any other training that contributed to your entering this line of work. I have always thought that it is profoundly important for such knowledge/skill to be passed from one generation to the next, through training our children, through our training other young people just beginning to get involved in the trade, or, as minimum, to at least leave a written record of our knowledge, for passing it along to generations to follow. With that in mind, I would love to see some written technical details, especially regarding double rifles, that you, with all your vast experience, knowledge, and skill in this trade, could share with others with similar interests. One such topic that is especially of interest would be your methods of double rifle regulation---the "nuts and bolts" of how you do it. Such a thing would be highly valued by many others who follow this website. Thanks again for everything.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #202844 - 18/02/12 11:11 AM

Tips and guide on how to post photos on the NitroExpress.com Forums:

How to post photos in NitroExpress.com

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #202890 - 19/02/12 03:59 AM

Hi,
When I built my first double, I had no clue on how to go about regulating the barrels and at that time there was no internet to search.
Here is how I did it: After soldering the barrels to the monoblock I soldered the quarter rib in place. The rib was machined to accept a set of Ruger scope mounts. I then soldered a "figure eight" contraption to the muzzle of one of the barrel. The other barrel went through the other hole, which had three screws. These screws allowed me to move the barrel until I got it close enough at 100 yards.
Today, the next step would get me arrested or at the very least banned from the shooting range. I then loaded my oxi-acetylene set in the trunk of my car and backed it up to the shooting line at the Fish Canyon Range, not far from my shop in Azusa, CA.
I used a 4 X scope. Then, I silver soldered three or four spacers starting from shortly after the quarter rib. I kept a wet rag over the rib. After each spacer, I shot it again and readjusted. The final spacer was just behind the adjusting device. Then I removed the adjuster and shot it again hoping that nothing changed. I took back to the shop and soldered the ribs and front ramp. That's the method that I used.
I did all the shooting from a sand bag bench rest. For the .458WM, I put a 25lbs. bag of shot betwen my shoulder and the recoil pad.

Here are a couple of pictures of the one that I'm making now:

Step 1

Step 23

I will post more as it comes along.

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!

Edited by CptCurl (04/03/12 11:16 PM)


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doubleriflejack
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #202899 - 19/02/12 06:10 AM

Thanks Max. Everything you write, I am saving for future reference. Truth is that my regulation methods, initially learned from W. Ellis Brown in gunsmithing Tech College, prior to his writing his book on converting double shotguns to double rifles, have, through the years, seen modifications that now include some of your initial methods, along with those learned from Brown, along with ideas and methods from other regulators too, plus a few of my own ideas as well.

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DBLGN
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #203202 - 22/02/12 05:31 AM

Max,
Doubleriflejack contacted me and suggested I read this thread - very glad that he did. I find your story and work very interesting. It appears from your byline, that you are now located in Pennsylvania. Wish you were a bit closer, would love to sit down and discuss double rifle building with you. Your experience with a torch on the range closely resembles mine - you get a lot strange looks when you do that sort of thing, but that is the way I did my first double as well. I look forward to seeing more of your project in the future.

Ellis

--------------------
DBLGN


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: DBLGN]
      #203333 - 23/02/12 03:53 AM

Hi Ellis,

Here are a couple of the latest pictures. I'll have to put it on the back burner for a couple of weeks. My next step is to cut the slot for the underlugs. I like the radial bearing surface better than the straight one used by many today. This will require me to make a couple of broaches and either find a face plate for my dividing head or to buy H/V rotary table. It is a somewhat tricky set-up and I will post pictures when ready.





By the way, space is at premium in my shop (8'X18'), that's why I have a shower curtain to protect my surface plate from my surface grinder.

Max

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!

Edited by CptCurl (04/03/12 11:17 PM)


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tophet1
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #203403 - 23/02/12 03:45 PM

Spotless workshop there Max.

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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: tophet1]
      #203541 - 24/02/12 12:34 PM

Hi MehulKamdar,

Unfortunately, I sold my last two double rifles about twenty years ago. You will just have to follow the progress on the one that I am making now.

As far as the Auto Mag, here is a Carbine conversion set that I make now among other things:




Here is a fancier stock


Tophet1,

Thanks, it's hardly spotless but I do try to keep it reasonably well organized. Then again, I am the only gunsmith that I know that has a five foot workbench which most of the time has a five feet work area. One of my mentors, Johnny Pachmayr had a ten foot bench with stuff piled from both ends, tapering to a clear spot are in the middle about six inches wide.

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!

Edited by CptCurl (04/03/12 11:17 PM)


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ruffcountry
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #203560 - 24/02/12 02:14 PM

WOW !

--------------------
Double Rifle Shooters Society


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gryphon
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: ruffcountry]
      #203569 - 24/02/12 04:16 PM

Gee,you will have a lot of fans with this rifle you are building Max.
Keep the pics coming please.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #203574 - 24/02/12 06:01 PM

Max, that is really neat, reminds me of those old artillery lugers but with a lot more oomph

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #203577 - 24/02/12 06:40 PM



Like a modern version of an old artillery Luger.

Just needs a pistol grip drum magazine, fully auto and Curl will add one to his armoury.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by CptCurl (04/03/12 11:18 PM)


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #203625 - 25/02/12 03:41 AM

Max,

Nothing "unfortunate" here! It is a delight to follow your work and do keep the posts coming. Both your double rifle and your Automag Carbines are going to be visually addictive for all of us over here!

Thanks for sharing pictures of your work and do keep visiting here. Your knowledge and posts are greatly appreciated!

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #203626 - 25/02/12 03:58 AM

I did play with several styles of stocks before I settled on this one. And, I do call it the "Luger Style" stock.

I am fresh out of 50 round drum magazines... but it does have an extra perk:


--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!

Edited by CptCurl (04/03/12 11:18 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #204379 - 04/03/12 06:24 AM

Not sure how I missed this thread as I am on here almost every day..

That is incredible workmanship...

Can't wait to see your double rifle..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Sville
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #204381 - 04/03/12 06:51 AM

You do some great work, will be nice to follow. I hadn`t seen this thread before and it is a fantastic story!!!.....

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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207732 - 27/04/12 10:18 AM

Here are a coupe of pictures of progress on the 700 NE that I am making.
This is the set-up that I used to cut the internal radial surface for the under-lugs. After squaring the holes I pivoted the receiver on the hinge pin against the broach:



Here are the finished slots:




I should be finished with the machining in a couple of weeks. Then I'll start all the hand sculpting.

I'll keep posting the progress

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!

Edited by CptCurl (03/05/12 10:53 AM)


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tinker
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207739 - 27/04/12 01:17 PM

Slick setup Max

Thanks for letting the cat outta the bag for us.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207756 - 27/04/12 11:06 PM

Absolutely beautiful, Max. Thank you for sharing these pictures. That is going to be one magnificent double rifle!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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doubleriflejack
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207769 - 28/04/12 07:51 AM

Max, Thank you so much for the progress pictures, and especially for the machining set up explanations. I am saving it all, for possible future reference. As you are well aware, setup is a huge part of the total machining time, and you obviously have considerable experience in doing all that is needed for a project such as this, experience that will assist anyone willing to pay attention to what you share. I have been planning for a good long time, the making of a personal "pet" .577 Nitro, with a true self opening action, strictly spring cocking, no cocking levers, based on the Beesley patent, similar to the second Charles Lancaster design; differing somewhat from the Purdey, machining from S7 steel. So, anything that I can learn from you, will be long remembered and appreciated.

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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #207841 - 29/04/12 12:03 PM

Hi Doubleriflejack,
Now you got me in trouble: I was planning on making a rather simple set of locks, with huge interceptor sears. On a .700 NE, doubling is not an option: if it were to happen, it would be safer to be in front of it rather than behind it.

I have never been much of a fan of self-openers, because they are hard-closers. Nevertheless, you got me curious about the subject... So, I'll spend a few days on the drawing board (make that the CAD screen... I know, I know, I'm old but not that old) to see if I can come up with a more balanced version of the Purdey/Beesley system.

It would be great to have the same resistance on opening and closing. I'll probably fall flat on my face trying... I wouldn't be the first time. And at my age, I sincerely hope that it wouldn't be the last.

If I come up with something worthwhile, I'll post the drawings.

By the way, I am going to use A7 for all the lock parts. It is unbeatable for shock resistance and hardness.

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!

Edited by MaxGera (29/04/12 12:04 PM)


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207861 - 30/04/12 04:11 AM

Max,

What about the Atkin modification to the Purdey self opener? It was supposed to be "more balanced" in making the opening and closing effort similar . . .

Thanks for the posts. This is a fantastic build report.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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doubleriflejack
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207934 - 02/05/12 05:38 AM

Max, and others interested in this,
Many people, including some who should know better, get self openers and easy openers confused; some don't know the difference between the two. A self opener springs open just as smartly after firing, as it does when locks are cocked; easy openers do not. Only four true self openers have ever been developed and made in numbers: 1. the first and most significant by Frederick Beesley (his first design used, of course, by Purdey right up to the present day); his second concept, a modification of his original design, used by Charles Lancaster (Lancaster modified it again later, so at that time it became strictly a spring cocker with no cocking levers, 2. Holland & Holland design that was adaptable to boxlock or sidelock, 3. The Charles Rossen design, almost as adaptable as the H & H design. 4. the rarest design of all, by Gough Thomas. Naturally, other gunmakers made self openers, but most are variations of the Rossen concept. The Beesley design stands alone in being completely integral with the mechanics of the action and lockwork. It is unique in the way he integrated the functions of opening and cocking---all other systems use separate mechanisms that have no other function. It was a brilliantly integrated system, three separate and different functions, cocking, firing, and opening, ALL ACTIVATED BY A SINGLE SPRING, THE MAINSPRING within the action! References to the original Beesley/Purdey concept in many standard reference books are not accurate: J.H. Walsh, The Modern Sportsman Gun and Rifle, W.W. Greener in The Gun and its Development, Sir Gerald Burrard in The Modern Shotgun ALL GOT IT WRONG. Gough Thomas got it right, in his Second Gun Book of 1972.


I have now had a chance, over years of use, to get familiar with, and use extensively, self opening double guns and rifles! As a result, I am now of the opinion that the overused cliched criticism that they are hard closers is, in reality, of no consequence to one used to operating a gun of this type, once one learns the way to do it properly. I know others who have come to the same conclusion. ONCE ONE USES AND GETS USED TO GUNS OF THIS DESIGN, NOTHING ELSE FEELS QUITE THE SAME. THE REASSURING SNAP CLOSING OF ACTION IS MISSED WITH OTHER SNAP ACTIONS. Self opening guns are much faster to operate than are conventional guns, for four, six, and eight shots, based on comparison timings of a given shooter. The opening is easily done with the right hand only, while the left hand is preparing for instantly reloading. I am of the opinion that self openers are the end result of the highest evolution of the double gun, a mechanical system that has been refined until there is nothing left to improve, what Gough Thomas calls "the aesthetic appeal of a perfected mechanism."

David Trevallion, and others, have said "self openers can be a bit stiffer to close than conventional guns," but Travallion says that those who make the most fuss about this are usually people who have never shot much with them, if at all, or who haven't learned how to use them properly." THAT, EXACTLY, HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE TOO! Further, he says that "self openers can be a great joy to use, and they really are faster in operation." However, a few gunmakers, of course, have tried to make the self openers less stiff on closing, including Stephen Grant (lifter on only one side of the action bar). I believe that I recall at least one gunmaker striving to make a more balanced opening/closing, by having one lifter cocking on opening, and the other on closing of gun.

Gaugh Thomas (Gough Thomas Garwood), the English gun writer, was a highly educated engineer who was quite gifted and clever with mechanics, also able to think outside the box. He was a profound fan of self opening guns, so much so that he designed one himself (specifically for a boxlock gun)! David Trevallion said that Gaugh Thomas knew his stuff, in the technical history of gunmaking as well as engineering. Gaugh Thomas said that "the self opening system confers a further advantage in that keeping the bite of lump right up to its locking bolt, stops the gun from shaking loose as soon as it otherwise would do." Travillion, in response, said that "as we have yet to find an instance when the old boy was demonstrably wrong on a point of engineering, we reckon he's right about this one too. Certainly we know from long experience that a Purdey can absorb an enormous amount of use before it needs to be rejointed."


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doubleriflejack
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207936 - 02/05/12 06:44 AM

Max,
Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to "get you in trouble," but must say that I am nevertheless pleased to get someone with your abilities seriously thinking about gun design topics. With all your talent, your long term training; your ingenuity, along with all your modern computer aided design programs, surely you can design something better than Frederick Beesley's 1880 self opening action, summarized above, after all, he was only a farmer's son! No offense intended; hope you have a good sense of humor?


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #207942 - 02/05/12 11:15 AM

Doubleriflejack,

I did not in any way take offense from your earlier post. I fact, the Purdey/Beesley lock is the only self-opener that I am familiar with. I consider it a masterpiece of good engineering.

My method of design is to accomplish every function needed, usually with a separate part on the first design. Then start removing parts by incorporating more and more function to the remaining parts.

The old Kiss rule (Keep it simple stupid). The Purdey/Beesley design does just that, splendidly.

Some years ago I worked on a shotgun with an opening assist spring under the forend iron.

Until a couple of days ago, that was it.

Now, my most offending personality trait is that to me, good enough is just not good enough… And compromises are for politicians!

Obviously the self-opening feature is a great options and you can get used to and even prefer the "harder closing”. But, that’s just a compromise.

Let’s face, after one-hundred and thirty years, what we really want is a self-opener that is ALSO self-closer!

So, the other day after my post, I sat down and gave some thought. Well, it was obvious that you can shuffle spring compressing from opening to closing back and forth and someone still has to compress a spring or springs some time, somehow.

I just cannot change the laws of physics… Or, can I?

Sure, someone has to compress that darn spring... But, why me?

After playing with the idea for a little while, I came up with the concept of a self-opener that cocks the hammers on opening and then releases the opening spring. The gun can now be closed without compressing anything.

Then, we use the most abundant free energy in most doubles: Recoil! Coupled to an inertia slide to compress the opening spring for the next opening. Piece of cake!

That’s as far as I went. Now, I have more irons on the fire than logs left to forge them with. So, I don’t know if I’ll be able to develop this, but there it is: Easy Opening – Easy Closing.

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!

Edited by MaxGera (04/05/12 12:02 AM)


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4seventy
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207980 - 03/05/12 08:30 AM

The self openers are indeed wonderful engineering designs, and do appear to work well with shotguns and bird shooting.

However, concerning double rifles used for hunting, the self opening system is quite limited in usefullness, and in some hunting situations, the "one handed" gun opening method has more negatives than positives IMO.

For target shooting, club comps etc, a self opening double rifle might be ok, but for a hunting double rifle, there is not much to be gained by attempting to use the traditional one handed breaking of the gun.


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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #207981 - 03/05/12 08:34 AM

Max, thanks for those great photos.
Beautiful workmanship there!
Please keep us up to date with this DR build, and also with your design for your self open-easy close action.


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kamilaroi
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: 4seventy]
      #207998 - 03/05/12 07:43 PM

Anyone considered the Perkes patent with a dual cam arrangement? works for me...

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doubleriflejack
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: 4seventy]
      #208026 - 04/05/12 04:54 AM

4seventy,
However, concerning double rifles used for hunting, the self opening system is quite limited in usefullness, and in some hunting situations, the "one handed" gun opening method has more negatives than positives IMO.

For target shooting, club comps etc, a self opening double rifle might be ok, but for a hunting double rifle, there is not much to be gained by attempting to use the traditional one handed breaking of the gun.
--------------------
Oh, really? How is it that you come to this profound conclusion? Perhaps your "hunting situations" differ from mine, but I have found self openers to be more positive than negative in real hunting situations; a joy to use. Many barrel cocking traditional double rifles are hard to open, stiff in opening, with more negatives than positives.


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4seventy
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #208032 - 04/05/12 07:56 AM

Quote:

Oh, really? How is it that you come to this profound conclusion? Perhaps your "hunting situations" differ from mine, but I have found self openers to be more positive than negative in real hunting situations; a joy to use.




Quote:

The opening is easily done with the right hand only, while the left hand is preparing for instantly reloading




DRJ
Self opening double rifles are fine for anyones "hunting situations".

It's just the (shotgun) method of breaking the gun with one hand that sucks with self opening double rifles used for hunting.



Quote:

Many barrel cocking traditional double rifles are hard to open, stiff in opening, with more negatives than positives.




"barrel cocking traditional double rifles" do not cause any problems to those who use (and practice) a good gun handling technique.


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doubleriflejack
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: 4seventy]
      #208035 - 04/05/12 08:17 AM

4seventy,
You really didn't explain your argument at all. What little you did say, I can't agree with, or we both would be wrong! It "sucks," isn't much of an argument or supporting statement for your position, as it implies only what you think, and not what is reality. But maybe you only post in an attempt to create argument?

Anyway, if it works for you, though I am not convinced it does, happy trails to you. However, what you imply does not work with me, as you imply; I shoot a number of traditional double rifles, shotguns, as well as self opening doubles as a basis of my points!!


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4seventy
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #208043 - 04/05/12 01:53 PM

DRJ
I'm not looking for an argument, just offering an opinion.



Quote:

I shoot a number of traditional double rifles, shotguns, as well as self opening doubles as a basis of my points!!





Tell us about the self opening double rifles you own, what makers are they by, and what animals you have taken with them.


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Mauser416
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: 4seventy]
      #211290 - 21/06/12 10:37 PM

Max,

Given that the radial bearing surface takes more work than the straight one why do you prefer this design?

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: Mauser416]
      #215966 - 03/09/12 03:15 AM

Hi,

Well, I finally got a chance to post the progress on my .700 NE.

I cut the Doll's Head slot. I machined the two front slots for the cocking levers and drilled the push-rods holes. I am using front cocking levers that activate push rods to cock the hammers. This method removes very little metal from the receiver and minimizes spring-back at the breech.

I partially machined the slots for the side locks. They will be back action locks (I want to keep the receiver as solid as possible); nevertheless, I gave them the front action look, because I don't like the "stubby" look of some back action locks.

And finally, I roughed out the "Mustache" and the top of the receiver. I will not be able to finish it completely until I make the barrels and the locks, as they have to be finished together. But, you can get a pretty good idea on what it will look like when finished.

Here are some pictures:

The front levers slots:


The Doll's Head slot:


The "Moustache":


I'll post more pictures as it comes along.


Edited by CptCurl (06/10/12 10:05 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #215967 - 03/09/12 03:21 AM







--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by CptCurl (06/10/12 10:06 PM)


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #215985 - 03/09/12 11:26 AM

Why didn't my pictures show on my post?

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #215998 - 03/09/12 03:46 PM

Quote:

Why didn't my pictures show on my post?




Incorrect image code. This is the corrected link address to display the image:

Code:
[image]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg606/flyer18334/Rec18.jpg[/image]



All the addresses needed to be changed before any photos would show.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: Mauser416]
      #216027 - 03/09/12 10:17 PM

Quote:


Given that the radial bearing surface takes more work than the straight one why do you prefer this design?

Eric




Mauser 416,

In my opinion, the true circle bearing surface is far superior to the flat surface, for two distinct reasons.

The first one is very easy to understand and visualize: Because of the very nature of the design using the flat surface, the two mating surfaces cannot come in contact with each other until the breech is fully closed. The slightest amount of dirt on the breech-face or the water-table, or an oversized shell, even if by only a couple of thousands of an inch will prevent the two surfaces from mating. This of course will put the entire load on the hinge pin.

The same situation would have no such effect with the radial bearing surface (the circle), since the two surfaces are fully mated during the entire opening range.

The second reason is a bit more complicated and difficult to explain without detailed drawings showing the vector lines of the forces in effect. But, I’ll try:

At the time of firing, the fore and aft force acting against the barrel and the breech-face, is not entirely horizontal. On both systems, there is an upward force trying to swing open the breech. This upward force is due to the fact that the hinge pin is below the centerline of the barrels; the lower the hinge pin, the higher the upward force. This force can be easily calculated with the use of a vector drawing.

On the flat surface system, we have an additional force trying to open the action: the necessarily angled surfaces act as an inclined plane, just like a set of adjustable parallels; as they are squeezed together, they try to slide. This again can be demonstrated and calculated with the use of vectors.

Max

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!


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Mauser416
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #216045 - 04/09/12 06:38 AM

Max,

Thanks for the explanations about the benefits of a true circle.

I thoroughly enjoy your posts, especially the pictures you post.

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.


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MaxGera
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #216094 - 05/09/12 01:58 AM

Thanks,

Apparently Photobucket adds some unnecessary numbers to the address. I'll keep it in mind for the next time.

Max

--------------------
To get things done, stop talking and start doing!


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: MaxGera]
      #216326 - 08/09/12 03:27 PM

Max,

Any progress since you last posted? Do post more pictures of your creation. We all enjoy seeing masterpieces come together.

Thanks in advance and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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twobobbwana
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #217472 - 02/10/12 09:36 AM

Max,

Thanks for including us in this project.

Are you using CNC for the "donkey work" or just drawing on CAD ???

The jig/setup that you used to cut the radial surfaces for the bites to engage on ....... how did you pivot the action against the broach ????

Will you Colour Case Harden this action ??? and do you do this yourself ??? If you're doing it yourself details of this process would be appreciated.

I'm hoping that you and Ellis can get your heads together. It should provide some great material for the next edition of his book.

Looking forward to your next photos.


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twobobbwana
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: twobobbwana]
      #229248 - 23/04/13 03:57 PM

Max,

Was it something I said ????

I'll retract anything I said as long as you'll show me more pictures of your progress.


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twobobbwana
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: twobobbwana]
      #231137 - 13/06/13 01:45 PM

Max,

are you still out there ????


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twobobbwana
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: twobobbwana]
      #263282 - 08/04/15 03:54 PM

Max ???

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Ash
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: twobobbwana]
      #263299 - 08/04/15 10:48 PM

I wonder if he's finished the 700? I'd love to see it if he has.

--------------------
.


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twobobbwana
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: Ash]
      #271178 - 01/10/15 11:01 AM

Max,

Hope you are in good health and just too busy with projects to spare us a thought.

Please post some photos of your progress.........it's been a long time since we heard from you and we're keen to see this project come to fruition.


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twobobbwana
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Re: Anyone know anything about Max Gera U.S.A. made double rifle [Re: Mauser416]
      #298346 - 03/04/17 01:02 PM

Max,

How is this project going ??

We're all keen to see more.


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