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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Double rifle project.
#98173 - 03/03/08 08:28 AM

Now it has happen, reading this site made me start building a double rifle.

Hopefully I will get it together before this summer. The donor gun is an old merkel 16 gauge and I will settle for a 45-70 firing a speer 400gr about 550m/s.

Anyone that has any experience of this load or similar?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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dale
.333 member

Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#98216 - 03/03/08 03:54 PM

Hi 450 366

Please keep us updated with pictures at your progress. Sounds like a great rifle.

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4seventy
Sponsor

Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#98224 - 03/03/08 04:57 PM

Andreas,
Yes please do post some photos and story on your project.
Good luck.

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#98231 - 03/03/08 05:50 PM

Hi!

Yeas pictures will be taken and posted under the project.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#98280 - 04/03/08 07:35 AM

Here is what I have done uptill now.

Added a silver recoil pad to the donorgun and cut the barrels to 26" length.

The old chambers and forcingcone are reamed out of the breech about 165mm long, had to do this in two steps to keep some walls in the old barrels.

To mount the sights some flats are milled out on the top of the rib for the sights to be held into place.

Two adam&bennet 458 barrels are chambered and waiting to be turned down to size.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Edited by CptCurl (09/01/09 11:16 PM)

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4seventy
Sponsor

Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#98282 - 04/03/08 08:18 AM

Andreas,
Excellent photos! Thanks for posting them.

It looks like you have all the equipment and tooling to do this sort of work.
It will be great to watch this rifle as it all comes together.
Please keep those great photos coming!

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Bramble
.375 member

Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#98388 - 05/03/08 09:40 AM

I want that DRO milling machine

Good luck with the project keep us posted.

Regards

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 4seventy]
#98459 - 06/03/08 05:30 AM

Quote:

Andreas,
Excellent photos! Thanks for posting them.
It looks like you have all the equipment and tooling to do this sort of work.
It will be great to watch this rifle as it all comes together.
Please keep those great photos coming!

I bought the machines about a month ago so Im still learning to operate them. Also quite short of tools thats why I cant turn the barrels, my pinol was of by 0,3mm and the new one got backordered and comes hopefully within a week.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#100321 - 26/03/08 05:39 AM

Got bored waiting on the pinol so my freand lent me one instead.

The breech end turned down.

About five hours was spent on looking at the barrel spinning in the lathe, lucky me that its a double.

The barrels and sights tinned and ready.

Now I have to wire the ribs and sights down so I can tinn the inside of the shotgun barrels at the breech. Also I will tinn the 15mm at the mussle where I reamed out the remanings of the choke. The rifled barrels are taken down at the mussle to allow me to fit an excentric bushing so i can adjust the barrels to hit at hopefully the same point. The bushings are ment to be solder at the shotgun barrels and left floating on the rifle barrels.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Edited by CptCurl (09/01/09 11:17 PM)

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RSFknives
.300 member

Reged: 02/05/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Sweden

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#100388 - 26/03/08 07:47 PM

Hi Andreas,
i just saw this thread, an interessting projekt you´ve got there...

i built my double rifle from a brno 16 gauge sbs and it´s a .444Marlin now... i made,
mine back in 2003 att the swedish gunsmithing school...

att the moment it´s waiting to get rechambered in .444 RSF

/Roger

--------------------
life is to short to own an ugly gun.

http://www.knifeguild.se

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: RSFknives]
#100422 - 27/03/08 01:29 AM

Quote:

Hi Andreas,
i just saw this thread, an interessting projekt you´ve got there...

i built my double rifle from a brno 16 gauge sbs and it´s a .444Marlin now... i made,
mine back in 2003 att the swedish gunsmithing school...

att the moment it´s waiting to get rechambered in .444 RSF

/Roger

Hi!

Seen the pictures on your double and it realy looks nice, undoubtly much better than this one will ever look. But hey its a poor mans double and if im lucky it will shoot quite well.

What is the 444 RSF?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Post Extras:

RSFknives
.300 member

Reged: 02/05/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Sweden

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#100426 - 27/03/08 03:00 AM

.444RSF is a cartridge i designed while att the gunsmithing school..

haven´t found it in any books i´ve read. (cartridges of the world )

you´ve got a pm..

/Roger

--------------------
life is to short to own an ugly gun.

http://www.knifeguild.se

Post Extras:

450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: RSFknives]
#100452 - 27/03/08 07:51 AM

The barrels soldered into place.
Started soldering the sights on and soldered the barrels at the same time as im in a hurry to get
it completed.
Guess who forgot that he should have fitted the bushings for the mussle first.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Edited by CptCurl (09/01/09 11:19 PM)

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Nakihunter
.375 member

Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#100622 - 28/03/08 12:19 PM

Will soldered barrels be strong enough? Why do shotgun sleeves have to be TIG welded? I am not a skilled person & know nothing about making double rifles. This looks like a great project & I wish I could convert my Webley & Scott into a 360 No2 NE!! I am looking forward to seeing pictures of the finished rifle.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: Nakihunter]
#100640 - 28/03/08 05:33 PM

Quote:

Will soldered barrels be strong enough? Why do shotgun sleeves have to be TIG welded? I am not a skilled person & know nothing about making double rifles. This looks like a great project & I wish I could convert my Webley & Scott into a 360 No2 NE!! I am looking forward to seeing pictures of the finished rifle.

To be fair i dont realy know, but the sleaves are turned so the "old" rim of the cartridge is left on the breech end together with two more steps.
So basicly they should be kept inplace without the solder as would the common barrel inserts. But in sweden the inserts are subject to a licence that is wery hard to obtain, anyway it wouldnt feel right.

Are the sleaves realy tig welded? thought they where silver soldered. At least in monoblocks and the different types of lumps.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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RSFknives
.300 member

Reged: 02/05/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Sweden

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#100643 - 28/03/08 06:21 PM

all the double rifles we built att the gunsmithing schools are sleaved and soldered, (not silversoldered,
it gets to hot and there is a risk you loose temper on the locking lugs if not careful)

the teacher has never heard of any barrels comming loose. and thats since he started work (he started att Fabbri in italy)

/Roger

--------------------
life is to short to own an ugly gun.

http://www.knifeguild.se

Post Extras:

450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#102006 - 09/04/08 04:17 AM

Some uppdates on the build.

After a fun evening with a petrolium lamp and my new friends the file and stone its back on face.
The new barrels are sticking out only so much that you can get the neil to stick on the edge.

The bushings are turned out with about 0,3mm excentric to the centre axel, and soldered into place. It will be fun to see if this works and if they are excentric enough.

And yeas they will be cut of and filed smooth with the old barrels when done, need someting to get the plyers to grab when twisting.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Edited by CptCurl (09/01/09 11:20 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26499
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: Nakihunter]
#102007 - 09/04/08 04:25 AM

Quote:

Will soldered barrels be strong enough? Why do shotgun sleeves have to be TIG welded? I am not a skilled person & know nothing about making double rifles. This looks like a great project & I wish I could convert my Webley & Scott into a 360 No2 NE!! I am looking forward to seeing pictures of the finished rifle.

;
: .360 #2 would be a terrific double-gun for the bush around here. Go for it, then send me the gun to test for you!-

; One of my best friends has a W&C Scott .360 BPE - at least that's what I think it is - memories and all.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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88MauSporter
.375 member

Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: DarylS]
#102009 - 09/04/08 05:17 AM

I'm on the edge of my seat reading through this one. I have an old belgian hammer double that I have chambered sleeves that I will fit, some day. I have them sitting there looking at me and laughing that I don't have time or the talent and tools as 450_360. Mine are also .45-70. I am looking forward to the regulating as well.
Looks like a great project an should make a wonderful classic double. best to your effort.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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Judson
.300 member

Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#102368 - 13/04/08 08:39 AM

The double I built is based on a French 16ga and the barrels are soldered into the origional mono block. I did braze he quarter rib in place however and all has worked out fine. The rifle is chambered for the .450#2 NE cartridge and shoots about 1.25" at 50 yards. If you are like me you will enjoy regulating the gun it was a lot of fun!!! What made you choose 45-70 in stead of a more clasic double rifle cartridge?
I posted building my rifle several years ago you may find some helpful info back there if you can find it. I am now building a 475 on a Verny Carron action(another French gun) or at least I think it will be a .475 At present I am making new forarm iron as that was missing. In any case the gun will be either a .475 or a .470. Good luck and have fun!

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: Judson]
#102392 - 13/04/08 05:14 PM

Quote:

The double I built is based on a French 16ga and the barrels are soldered into the origional mono block. I did braze he quarter rib in place however and all has worked out fine. The rifle is chambered for the .450#2 NE cartridge and shoots about 1.25" at 50 yards. If you are like me you will enjoy regulating the gun it was a lot of fun!!! What made you choose 45-70 in stead of a more clasic double rifle cartridge?
I posted building my rifle several years ago you may find some helpful info back there if you can find it. I am now building a 475 on a Verny Carron action(another French gun) or at least I think it will be a .475 At present I am making new forarm iron as that was missing. In any case the gun will be either a .475 or a .470. Good luck and have fun!

Yeas the regulating will be fun, hopefully both barrels will show a hole somewere in the paper to begin with. Now I sitt here waiting for a 22mm mill so i can finnish the extractor, then its of to the range.

I choose the 45-70 as its cheap in brass,bullets and reloading tools. And when its done (if this work) i will sell it of to finanse a ,577 build on my 12 gauge. And as this is turning out with the sights and all, i couldnt ceep it anyway.

I did a search for your build but couldnt find it, will give it a try again later.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Post Extras:

450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#104343 - 05/05/08 11:23 PM

This evening i will put a couple of rounds in my double and hopefully it will hold, so if this tread stopps here you now why.

After half a day trying to set the barrels straight I messed it up anyway. I tought that the hole for the extractor was in center of the lump and in an angle with the action but apparently it was not. Merkel from the mid -70 is not a precisionbuilt peace of art thats for sure.

Anyway the extractor had some disc turned out and soldered into place and is now fitted to the barrels. Sorry for the crappy focus on the picture but it was in the middle of the night and I took at least 20 in different settings on the camera (its my garagecamera so its old).
But the bright spotts where the black is rubbed of are almost visible. This blackening and scrapening/filing/stonig sure is fun.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Edited by CptCurl (09/01/09 11:21 PM)

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#104382 - 06/05/08 06:18 AM

Put a couple of service round in it (55gr varget/400gr speer) and

it looks fine. As soon as im ready for it i will gut a couple of hotter ones in it for proofing.

I had to order a original print from a proofhouse to build this proofing rest.

But it did the work, the round made boom and no metal was flying around this time. The only thing that stunned me was that it was quite suddle not a sharp crack when i fired it, but it could be that my nerves shut the sound out to let me be able to taste the fear of a f...up more clearer. But it held up

, atleast these soft loads. Next time i will set up the gunrest500 it will be definitive if it houlds or not.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Edited by CptCurl (09/01/09 11:22 PM)

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: 450_366]
#104384 - 06/05/08 07:39 AM

Thanks Andreas !
Great reading & funny bits ( it IS meant to be funny ?

) great idea , different coloured strings for each barrel !
Wish there were more photos

, please keep us informed !

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dale
.333 member

Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.

Re: Double rifle project. [Re: Sarg]
#104395 - 06/05/08 04:14 PM

Great looking job. Are you keeping a rough record of your time? Some fine looking machines as well.

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