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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247518 - 18/05/14 05:28 AM

an interesting No.1 cartridge







http://naboje.org/node/1326

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247640 - 22/05/14 01:54 AM

a drilling in 12/65 and 6,5x58R with Anton Ferdinand Korinski, Erlangen on the barrels
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4925137









seller says the number is 6006 what makes it an very early drilling. remember my own double gun is 4969 and I think its from the mid 1890s.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 02:23 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247642 - 22/05/14 02:09 AM

I was sniffing for collath guns and found this beautyful double rifle Hermann Historica sold in 2011
have not seen it then

"Lot Nr. 377
A Collath luxury double rifle,
Frankfurt/ O., first half of 20th century, cal. ..360 (?), no. 282785. Bright bores made of Witten Excelsiorstahl with only few light usage marks, refinished, German proof mark crown / "NGU", barrel root with gold inlays and leaf engravings, fixed sight and frog mount, barrel length 63 cm. Eccentric bolt action with horn lever, strong locks, double trigger (reblued?), rear set trigger on the right, rotation wing safety. Receiver with rich animal and oak leaf engravings, signature "W. COLLATH SÖHNE FRANKFURT A. O.". Elegant half stock of walnut root wood, hardly noticeably ground on buttstock, horn cap and horn trigger (repaired crack), good checkering, distance front trigger - centre butt plate 36.5 cm, two sling swivels. Total length 106 cm.
An extremely rare Collath double rifle deluxe model. "
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/...;db=kat63_s.txt












this Cal.9 88 looks like a 9x57 rimless , especially when you look at the cartridge extractor
something must be wrong with the serial number 282785 is to high. must be more a 28278!?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247646 - 22/05/14 02:34 AM

a 12/65 or better a No 1 double gun

"Description: Cal. 12 Ga., 2 1/2". S# 5798. Bbl. 30" of damascus steel. Full & full chokes. Unusual action, bbl. cammed forward before opening when under lever is actuated. Scalloped round body action with full coverage deep relief engraving featuring fox on right, setter & duck on left with stag head on top tang. Collath wing type tang mounted safety. Extractors. Dbl. triggers. European style sling swivels. Horn under lever & trigger guard. Splinter forearm & checkered straight grip cheekpiece stock of fancy European walnut. LOP: 13 5/8" over horn buttplate with beveled edges. CONDITION: bbls. have 90% reblued finish. Action cleaned right. Refinished stock & forearm with some handling marks & good recut checkering. Bores have areas of pitting. (12-2876/DS). CURIO. $900-1500. "









http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/w.-collath-under-lever-sxs-shotgun.-1108-c-647c08e1a2

I see the 5798 serial number in the mid 1890s now

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247750 - 23/05/14 07:16 PM


http://www.walter-antiquariat.de/WebRoot...C30/img602a.jpg

more teschner collath guns and with time we will get a little overview

this was collath500BPE double rifle in 12,7x86R 500BPE shooting a 3,38" long case only used by Teschner Collath
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=107196&an=0&page=1















I wonder where the DR is now

kcordell Drilling in 16ga - No.4 and 8x57IR









and the other one in No.1 and 9,3x82R, a cartridge you see allmost only in Teschner collath guns





http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=107196&an=0&page=1

will ask kcordell for the serial numbers

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:37 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247751 - 23/05/14 07:35 PM

a 16/65 and 9,3x72R
http://www.waffen-hiendlmayer.de/details.php?cID=5&sID=5&iID=46
serial number is 14926
seller tell me the gun is rechambered from 9,3x65R Collath to 9,3x72R, thanks





I say it before most people today are completly unaware of the Tesco shotgun cartridges so most 12ga and 16 ga guns may be in fact No.1 and No.4.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:21 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247752 - 23/05/14 07:47 PM

now that is interesting
the first model collath double gun shooting a paper cartridge with seperate percussion primer
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm

this double gun must be made in the late 1850s, early 1860s


you see basically its the same gun still made into the 1920s only hammerless when the needle fire cartridge came some times later


























looks like Cal. 6 so this would mean the number system goes back to the very first paper cartridges



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a 3 barrel shotgun in clearly 16 ga
serial number 12286 what must be in the years 1900-1910
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm


















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a double gun with damascus barrels similar to my own gun

































http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:00 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247755 - 23/05/14 08:11 PM

a simple drilling in 16 ga and 8x57IR
http://www.waffen-laurus.de/gebrauchtwaffen/kombinierte-waffen/gb0013-drilling-teschner-collath/






Collath German Drilling with Scope and Sling
http://www.icollector.com/Collath-German-Drilling-with-Scope-and-Sling_i11025739




The top of the left barrel at the breech is marked "WILH. COLLATH - SOHNE - FRANKFURT A/ODER." and "IESCO" in a decorative oval on both barrels at the breech. The upper left side of the frame is marked "W. COLLATH SOHNE" and "FRANKFURT A.O." on the right side. Scallop border and light floral engraved frame and trigger guard. The nitro proofed barrels feature a solid rib with a blade front a folding rear sights, 16 gauge shotgun barrels have 2 1/2 inch chambers, choked extra full/extra full with an extractor. Commercial "crown/N" proofs. There is a Tasco 4x15 scope on a Weaver 22 Tip-Off mount, non-professionally mounted on the right rear barrel. Mounted with a checkered walnut forearm and pistol grip stock with a horn under lever and grip cap, cheekpiece, serrated horn buttplate, and military style Straight Shooter leather sling.
BBL: 27 1/2 inch solid rib
Stock: walnut
Gauge: 16/9.3x72R
Finish: blue/casehardened
Grips:
Serial Number: 21636


AN EXCEPTIONALLY FINE 16-BORE PIVOT-OPENING DOUBLE-BARRELLED SHOTGUN BY W.COLLATH, NO. 12645
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4983329



Lot Description

AN EXCEPTIONALLY FINE 16-BORE PIVOT-OPENING DOUBLE-BARRELLED SHOTGUN BY W.COLLATH, NO. 12645
Action and furniture carved in relief with game scenes and dark pewter finish, pivot-opening sliding breech, the breech-ends with an oak leaf design and border trim inlaid in gold, also the names "Wittener Excelsior", winged barrel release catch, horn trigger guard, sling- swivels, the fully figured stock with cheek-piece, butt plate and pistolgrip (with cap), deeply carved with scenes of the chase, the barrels with matt game rib
Weight 6lb. ½oz., 13¼in. stock, 29½in. barrels, chokes approx. full & extra full, 2½in. chambers, black powder proof

Price Realized £2,125 (Set Currency)
($4,416)

Sale Information Sale 7449 —
Exceptional and Fine Sporting Guns and Rifles
14 November 2007
London, King Street

Drilling in 16/65 and 6,5x58R
http://www.waffenbruehl.de/shop/product_...18ua12tq4a42m17













Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:18 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247757 - 23/05/14 08:34 PM

Drilling in 16/65 and 9,3x65R Collath
http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7306887





















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a quality No.3 double gun for the No. 1 shotgun cartridge
today a 12 ga.
serial number looks like 9485
steel barrels and nitro proofed
http://www.edle-waffen.de/



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a Wilhelm Collath - Söhne Drilling in 16/65( real, no No. 4) and 9,3x72R
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20and%20sohne%20gb.htm
serial number 21582








































close to the gun Kuduae postet here, made after 1912 and we coming near to the year 1914 now




Edited by lancaster (23/05/14 08:51 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247777 - 24/05/14 12:08 AM

This one appears to me to be a breech loading percussion shotgun, not meant for any ctg. - except for some sort of self-contained, completely wrapped in paper ctg. would be possible, I assume. The ctg. would look similar to the military ctgs. of the muzzleloading era which contained powder and ball or powder ball and buck shot. In this case, they'd be powder, wads and shot. The breech extensions would have to seat well into the powder charge in order to effect ignition.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: DarylS]
      #247782 - 24/05/14 12:29 AM

yes daryl, that what I wrote but dont meaning the modern paper shell
it was a thin paper shotgun cartridge very similar like like this early needle fire cartridge only without the primer pill you see under the shot sabot.



but the cal. 6 indicate that Teschner was using his own "gauge" system by numbers from the beginning

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (24/05/14 12:30 AM)


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kuduae
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #247791 - 24/05/14 01:31 AM

Quote:


the first model collath double gun shooting a paper cartridge with seperate percussion primer
this double gun must be made in the late 1850s, early 1860s
you see basically its the same gun still made into the 1920s only hammerless when the needle fire cartridge came some times later
looks like Cal. 6 so this would mean the number system goes back to the very first paper cartridges
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20collath%20w%20%20gb.htm





Lancaster, apparently you haven’t read the article in "Der Waffenschmied" on the history of the so-called "Collath" slide-and-drop action. That percussion breechloading gun on littlegun.be is not by Collath or Teschner. Look at the inscription on the top rib. The word “MEHLIS” is legible, so it was made there. Neither Wilhelm Collath nor his father in law Gustav Teschner ever worked in now Zella-Mehlis. This capping breechloader is made to Renette’s French 1820 patents. Renette’s capping breechloader is the “grandfather” of the “Collath action”. Such guns were called "Schnellader" = quickloader in Germany and used muzzleloader-style cartridges, powder, wad and shot wrapped in paper, as Daryl S already noted.. Ignition was by hammers hitting percussion caps on outside nipples. As such cartridges had no case or base wad, gas sealing was achieved by steel cups or tubes entering the breech ends of the barrels. Of course such gas seals needed a straight fore and aft movement of the barrel before they dropped on opening. Such capping breechloaders were made by Gastinne's father in law and partner Albert Henry Marie Renette, who obtained two French patents for outside primed guns with slide and drop action in 1820, way before Lefaucheux' invention of the break-open gun, 1834. Not only Gastinne-Renette, Paris, made such guns, but the design was copied by many other gunmakers all over Europe, as in the “Mehlis” signed gun erroneously ascribed to Collath by littlegun.be.

Contrary to popular belief neither Collath nor Teschner invented that slide-and-drop breech action. The merely took an existing breech action and adapted it to their own needs.
These slide and drop actions are now so linked to the "Collath" name that even guns by others, some predating Teschner and Collath, are labeled "Collath" nowadays. But neither Gustav Teschner nor Wilhelm Collath invented this breech action. Teschner first offered needlefire guns in 1858. Five years earlier, in 1853, Louis Julien Gastinne obtained the French patent No.9058, showing this breech action on a hammer gun, intended to use inside-primed centerfire cartridges. Subsequently the patent agent Auguste Edouard Loradoux Bellford patented the same thing for Gastinne in Great Britain, patent No.2778 of 1853. Bellford assigned this British patent to Charles Lancaster, London. Lancaster popularized these hammer slide and drop action using Gastinne’s inside primed “base-fire” cartridge. Even Gastinne did not invent this breech action. About 1850 the young gunsmith journeyman Rudolf Berger from Köthen worked at the Gastinne-Renette shop in Paris during his travelling years. After returning home he took over his father's shop and made needlefire guns of his own design. He simplified and improved Nicolaus v. Dreyse's coil spring striker locks and combined them with Renette's slide and drop breech action. As his own paper needlefire cartridges still lacked a gas seal he retained studs on the breechface, but with Chassepot-type rubber cushions for better seals. By placing his primers near the rear end of the cartridge instead of Dreyse's position in front of the powder charge, he could use shorter, less vulnerable needles for ignition.
Only now enter Gustav Teschner and Wilhelm Collath. Legend has it that Collath, working for Teschner since 1855, actually developed the "Teschner-Collath" gun. Coil spring striker locks were deeply mistrusted then by many gunmakers, accused of slow lock time and weakening coil springs. So Collath took the basic Renette slide and drop breech action and combined it with tumbler locks powered by large leaf springs, mounted on the triggerplate. These are the earliest hammerless Blitzschlosse = triggerplate locks known. The locks are cocked by the underlever when opening the gun. Turning the wing-nut shaped safety on the tang blocks the inside hammers. As the Teschner-Collath nailfire cartridges now had a metal base cap and a solid, gas sealing base wad, Collath did away with the Renette-Berger breech sealing plugs on the breechface. The base wad and a metal cap was alredy patented in 1846 by French Houllier of Paris.


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: kuduae]
      #247796 - 24/05/14 02:24 AM

of course I read the article in "Der Waffenschmied" but some time is gone and somewhere in my brain I was remeber that the very first guns were "Schnellladegewehre" before the needle fire cartridge was adopted. dont had enough time to look at the pics dont see "Mehlis" because all of my attention was absorb by the "Cal. 6" engraving. you see what you know and so I take as what they name it: a Teschner Collath.


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take a look into this issue and its the same gun you see on page 7- thats what I was remembering.
its over a month that I read it

thanks for clarify this! this is what this thread is made for

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (24/05/14 02:35 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248198 - 30/05/14 09:11 PM

going thru the older Hermann Historica auction catalogs

a Bockbüchsflinte, 16/65 over 6,5x58R

"W. COLLATH SÖHNE FRANKFURT A.O./WITTENER - EXCELSIOR"

http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion.html


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Drilling Nr. 15141. 16/65 and 8 x 58 R
crown and S W U G proof, "WITTENER EXCELSIOR" and "PATENT W. COLLAT" "FRANKFURT A/O""

a BISCHOFF, BRAUNSCHWEIG", "DINOX 6 x 56" scope



http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion.html

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this must be very old
a single shot rifle in 11,2x60R Mauser
serial number 1491


http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion.html
"W. COLLATH - FRANKFURT A.O."

when the 3500 serial number range was short before the 1891 proof law this rifle number 1491 could not be made before 1873/74 when the mauser 71 realy starts
this would mean only 1500 guns since the late 1850s

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (31/05/14 12:35 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248199 - 30/05/14 09:50 PM

all found in http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/

double gun in Kal. 16/70
No.14967
new proofed in 1967 proably whenthe chambers were extended


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a 20/70 double gun with new barrels made by Henneberger 1968



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Collath-Büchsflinte with ZF Rüdiger scope,
Frankfurt a. O. um 1900, Nr. 14289
12 and 8 x 57 R, Krupp barrels, german proof Krone/"USG" and proofed again in 1930
"C. BARGHOLZ, HARBURG A/ELBE" proably the retailer



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Bockbüchsflinte in 16 and 7 x 72 R, Nr. 22429, Krupp steel barrels
Krone/"WUN" proof
OIGEE Luxor 4 x on claw mount


this 22429 is now the highest serial number I have seen if we forget the strange 9x57 double rifle


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double rifle in 9,3 x 74 R, serial number 21512




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Drilling in No 1 and 8x58R
serial number 14680
"WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone /"WUG" proof

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Drilling in No.4 and 9,3x80R
serial number 16740, Krone/"SWUG" proof



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Drilling in No.4 and 9,3x80R
serial number 18322, Krone/"SWUG proof



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248200 - 30/05/14 10:08 PM

Drilling in 16 and 9,3x80R
serial number 18380
"WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone/"SWUG" proof



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Drilling in 16 and 9,3x65R Collath
serial number 18736
"WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone/"SWUG", ZF Tesco 5 3/4 x scope




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Drilling in No.4 and 8mm
serial number 14094
"WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone /"UWG", "Collath 8" scope



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Drilling in 16 and 9,3x65R
serial number 6219 what must be around 1900
WITTENER EXCELSIOR", Krone/"WUG, old Collath scope



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11mm double rifle barrels
serial number 14635


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248202 - 30/05/14 10:29 PM

a No. 4 double gun
no serial number given


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Drilling in 16 and 9,3x65R


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Drilling in 16 and 9,3x80R
serial number 15537


http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/



Edited by lancaster (30/05/14 11:08 PM)


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tinker
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248218 - 31/05/14 01:13 AM

Fantastic - all of them!


Thanks Lancaster!!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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kuduae
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248221 - 31/05/14 01:57 AM

Quote:

this must be very old
a single shot rifle in 11,2x60R Mauser
serial number 1491


http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion.html
"W. COLLATH - FRANKFURT A.O."

when the 3500 serial number range was short before the 1891 proof law this rifle number 1491 could not be made before 1873/74 when the mauser 71 realy starts
this would mean only 1500 guns since the late 1850s



As this rifle with the single set trigger, also serving to cock the rifle, is made to Wilhelm Collath's 1881 patent DRP # 18162, it was made between 1881 and 1893.


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: kuduae]
      #248222 - 31/05/14 02:14 AM

I think then it must be close to 1881




found this pics of the 12,7x86R 500 double rifle again







serial number looks like 13283 what must be around 1905. the cartridge must have been very old-fashioned for a german hunting rifle in this modern times. the action is engraved with " 16.500/86" so there were 16 ga barrels too.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (31/05/14 02:24 AM)


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kuduae
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248223 - 31/05/14 02:46 AM

Guessing from the unusually "doubled up" Collath Kammerverschluss,DRGM # 128479 of 1897, the chamber walls of the double rifle barrels must be unusually heavy for a blackpowder dr. So it was more likely made for the .500 3 1/4" Nitro Express cartridge, maybe for some German bound for the African colonies.

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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248229 - 31/05/14 04:14 AM

its clearly marked as "500/86"



loaded with 4 gramm Rottweil B.P. Nr. 5 it could only be a Nitro for Black



the 450 was loaded with 3,5 gramm No.5 nitro powder


nonetheless not bad for africa

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248230 - 31/05/14 04:19 AM

sold for only 983 euro in denmark 2011

Drilling W. Collath Söhne, Frankfurt A/O Calibre 16/8x57 IR. Snap on mount scope
http://www.lauritz.com/en/auction/drilli...57-ir/i2195253/

Description:
Drilling W. Collath Söhne, calibre 16/8x57 IR. Weapon No. 19447. Barrel L. 68cm. Total L. 110 cm. Barrels stamped Wittener - Excelsior, Tesco Laufverschraubung and nitro. Weapon opens by activating key under the forestock. Glossy clean rifle barrel with sharp rifling. Shiny shotgun barrels. Action decorated with edge garlands and stamped FRANKFURT A/O - W. COLLATH SÖHNE. Oiled walnut stock with stock magazine for three cartridges. Horn trigger guard, pistol grip manchette and buttplate. Mechanically, the weapon is in good conservation condition, tight in all movable pieces, tight springs. Over the safety is the monogram: JHL under coronet, presumably belong to a member of Holstein-Ledreborg family. 88 cartridges calibre 8X57IR are included.









































--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: hold for me [Re: lancaster]
      #248233 - 31/05/14 07:29 AM

Guess that's why we like our firearms so much - we are history lovers as well!
Fantastic to see all types of these old period pieces, their designs advances (& shortcomings)and the direction they took that lead us from flintlocks right through to the "modern" era!
It really is fantastic to have all this wonderful knowledge on tap here & everyone is willing to share rather than be a 'secret society'!
Thankyou gents for our lesson today - eagerly awaiting more!
Kind Regards
93x64mm


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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: hold for me [Re: 93x64mm]
      #248252 - 01/06/14 05:11 AM

Quote:

its clearly marked as "500/86"
found this pics of the 12,7x86R 500 double rifle again. serial number looks like 13283 what must be around 1905. the cartridge must have been very old-fashioned for a german hunting rifle in this modern times. the action is engraved with " 16.500/86" so there were 16 ga barrels too.



Such big bore cartridges were perhaps old-fashioned by 1905, but not outmoded. If you read contemporary German hunting literature, you will find many traditional big game hunters still mistrusting the new-fangled “smallbore”, smokeless, “high velocity” cartridges. Only 5 years ago, Carl Gruendig, Dresden, had brought out his line of 10.75 mm Gruendig catridges, using jacketed .423” 347 gr bullets at velocities from a modest 1885 (x45) to 2200 (x65) fps. Even the humble 10.75x45R G apparently had some following, as I have made such ammo to feed the Sauer & Sohn double rifle owned by a friend.
Quote:

loaded with 4 gramm Rottweil B.P. Nr. 5 it could only be a Nitro for Black
the 450 was loaded with 3,5 gramm No.5 nitro powder
nonetheless not bad for africa



You are right, the .500 x 86R Collath cartridge was at least equal to the British .500 3 ¼” Nitro for Black or Light Cordite load, 440 gr metal based lead bullet in front of 55 gr unspecified smokeless for 1900 fps (Kynoch 1925) According to an undated, but pre-WW1 RWS bullet catalog, the .500 TESCO copper jacket bullet weighed 27.5 gramm = 424 gr. In front of 4 gramm = 62 gr smokeless BlättchenPulver Rottweil #5 (burning rate about in between IMR 3031 and 4064), it may have been close to 2000 fps. Really nothing to scoff at.


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