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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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MauserRifle
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.40 Caliber Dilemma ?
      #94384 - 16/01/08 11:56 AM

I wish to purchase, have built or convert a rifle in one of the .40 calibers built on a standard length Mauser action. I do not want to reload ammo but wish to be able to purchase ammo from gun dealers or stores. Which caliber could be built on a standard length Mauser. .404 Jeffery, .416 Remington Mag., or are there other choices? I have ruled out the .425 Express as commercial ammo in not available. I have also more or less ruled out the .416 Taylor as ammo for this caliber is not readly available. Also I have a chance to buy a 10.75x68mm Mauser with a .425 bore. Could this rifle be converted to a .404 Jeffery? I believe the bore on the Jeffery is .424 while the bore on the 10.75x68 is .425, how much would the .001 difference in bore make? I also have the opportunity to buy a .425 express but do not know what the bore is for this caliber. Does someone know what the bore is on a .425 Express and if it can be converted to a .404?

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Mauser Rifle

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szihn
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: MauserRifle]
      #94401 - 16/01/08 04:01 PM

You can convert a standard length Mauser to 404, (or even 416 Rigby) is price is no object, but it better not be any object at all.
If price IS an object you are far better off to just buy a commercial rifle in 416 Remington, Rigby or Weatherby.
I have done Mauser conversions to both the 416 Rigby and 404 Jeffery, and the time and parts involved are costly. Then you have to have a stock hand made, as it's no longer a "standard" form.
So by the time you have one built you'd be into the project several thousand dollars
You can buy a Ruger for about $1600, and a Remington for less. You can get a CZ for about the same I think.

If you want a standard length Mauser in a "40" you might want to re-consider reloading and have one done in 416 Taylor. A full reloading set-up would be very cheap in compairison.

Edited by szihn (16/01/08 04:05 PM)

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Schamankungulo
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Reged: 21/04/07
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: szihn]
      #94488 - 17/01/08 11:18 AM

Yep I have had two Taylors , wud be my choice in a 416 aside from the Rigby ..

I believe there are a few making commercial Taylor loads .

As szihn says reloading is a much cheeper setup than the price difference ..

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MauserRifle
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: szihn]
      #94512 - 17/01/08 04:45 PM

szihn and everyone else,

First let me state that I am sorry I could not answer those responding to my post but just as I hit the post button my computer crashed. I was not even sure that the post went up. I have re-incornated an old cpmputer and hopefully it will work till I get my 30 day old new cpmputer out of the shop


szihn, I knew that I had seen .404's advertised on standard Mauser actions and thought that it was possibel to build on a standard length Mauser action. If I understand you correctly, you build rifles and have done this type of conversion. I do not understand why a new stock is necessary if you are converting a complete rifle. If I cannot buy one that already has been converted, my thought is to buy a pre-war Mauser and have the conversion done. This rifle would already have a stock. The reason I prefer pre-war Mauser's is because they are mostly hand made and the stocks have more drop than the rifles being produced today. Because of my build and facial features I need a stock with more drop. With the rifles being built today I can hardly get my face down on the stock to use a scope, let alone iron sites and the rifles built today do not have iron sites worth a using.

I no longer reload and do not wish to start again. For this reason I want a .40 caliber for which factory ammo is available. I have never shot a .404 Jeffery, but from everything I have read and heard it is a low pressure cartridge and has less recoil than other similiar calibers. I presiently do all my hunting with calibers 7x57 and 9.3x62 in pre-war Mauser Type A & B rifles. These rifles have the drop that is correct for my build. I now desire to acquire a big bore for Africa and really do not want the recoil of the .458 Winchester. From everything I have read and heard the .404 Jeffery will do everything the .458 will with less recoil.

I have considered the .416 Taylor and .425 Express but these calibers are not available as factory loads and from what I have read and heard are high pressure heavy recoiling calibers. I have also considered the .425 W.R. but understand that this caliber has serious feeding problems and again factory ammo is not available to my knowledge. Thus everything points to the .404 Jeffery or the .458 Winchester. I believe that speciality ammo companys are loading a 450 grain bullet for the .458 which is supposed to not be a compressed powder load and could possibly have less recoil. But here again one is into a speciality load or reloading and I defenately do not want to start reloading again.

All suggestions and help will be appreciated...

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Mauser Rifle

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MauserRifle
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #94513 - 17/01/08 04:56 PM

Schamankungulo,

Like I stated I have considered the .416 Taylor but it is not factory loaded and I defenately do not want to start reloading again. I have never shot a .416 Taylor but have heard form some that it is high pressure and heavy recoiling and at the same time others that said it is mild.

I have considered the .416 Remington but always thought it had to be built on a magnum length action??? I do not wish to have any rifles on a magnum length action as I wish to keep the same bolt throw on all my rifles.

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Mauser Rifle

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: MauserRifle]
      #94519 - 17/01/08 06:05 PM

You could think about the .400 Tembo - it is a slightly shortened .404 case firing .40 calibre bullets (not .423 like the Jefferey or .416). It fires a 350grain Barnes X at 2300fps (SD .312) and 400grain Hawk or Rhino at 2200(SD .356). Designed by Kevin Robertson (writer of Africa's Most Dangerous) and Ed Woslum (Evolution USA - www.evo-rifles.com).

Probably too new for factory rounds as yet, but no doubt Superior would make it. It would be a good choice if you didn't want a belted round like the Taylor (although personally I don't see anything wrong with belts on the right cartridge). It would be an easier fit than a .404 on a standard Winchester M70 action because it is slightly shorter, but that isn't a factor for the standard Mauser which can take a .404 Jefferey. Krieger makes .40 barrels too.

Another option could be the .425 Express, a .300 Win Mag necked up to take .423 bullets (same as .404 Jeffery). It is reported to do 2300fps with 400grain bullets. I imagine that the recoil would be pretty stiff though and I'be no idea if factory rounds are available (Superior again?).

Of course if you are going the "whole hog" and having the rifle built, there is always the .400 Holland & Holland, but I think that is longer than the .404 Jefferey and I doubt if it will fit a standard Mauser action (could be wrong though - never seen one!)

Edited by JabaliHunter (17/01/08 08:39 PM)

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Schamankungulo
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #94551 - 18/01/08 01:09 AM

Well the "felt" recoil will be helped or hurt by two things , stock design and weight .. I cant tell that much difference in the "felt" recoil of the 416 and 458 .. Both kiss you pretty well ..

There is at least one smith who is building a 416 on the 300 RUM .. He has developed a line of cartridges that are somewhat well known ..

I know nothing of him other than his website and he will not answer emails that I send ..

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #94557 - 18/01/08 02:35 AM

Why not a 470 Capstick? You can buy commercial ammunition (it is pricey) as well as correctly head stamped brass. Hits a tad harder than a 458 Lott, 375 H&H length action. There was a gorgeous Model 70 "Big 5" in 470 Capstick at Cabelas awhile ago

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"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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MauserRifle
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #94593 - 18/01/08 09:15 AM

Schamankungulo,

I agree about a stock playing an important part in the felt recoil. This is why I own and use pre-war Mausers. They have more drop in the stocks and with my build and face structure I have to have this for the rifle to fit me correctly. All of the rifles built today have way too straight of a stock for me, I have to cheek the stock hard to be able to see through the scope let alone open sites. I also prefer to stay with established cartridges and low pressure cartridges like the .404 Jeffery. Factory loaded ammo is available for the Jeffery.

Due to a spinal injury in my neck and lower back recoil is a factor for me!

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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MauserRifle
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: chuck375]
      #94596 - 18/01/08 09:27 AM

Chuck375,

Since the 470 Capstick hits harder than the .458 Lott I am sure it slams the shooter harder also. I want to keep recoil as low as possible due to the reasons I have stated earlier. Also it is not a factory cartridge.

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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88MauSporter
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Reged: 06/06/07
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: MauserRifle]
      #94598 - 18/01/08 09:46 AM

MauserRifle:
If I could buy a classic Mauser actioned sporter in .404 Jeffery, I would take this over the .416's or .458s out there now. The cartridge shape and low pressures, I feel, are a plus. Hot weather and pressures are less likely to be a problem. The long slope to the shoulder eases feed. It is plenty powerful for anything you are likely to hunt (maybe not elephant?).
As I said before, I have an FN Sporter on a standard length '98 action in .375 H&H. There are cuts for ejection and the magazine is opened longer. All of this is factory. This is an older model from, I assume, the 1950'. It has both the classic mauser 3 position wing safety. It also has a side slide safety that seems to have been included to allow for lower scope mounting. It is drilled and tapped (thru the ornate FN emblem on the forward ring) though only irons were on the rifle when I bought it. I was told it was a "guide or game scout" rifle. In some reading over the past few years, it seems that Tanzania or Zambia equiped their game rangers / scouts with .404s contracted to FN. I don't know where my rifle has been, but, even though in nice shape, it has seen some carrying and hunting.
Good luck with the project or hunt for the purchase. I would be interested in what you end up with.

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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MauserRifle
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #94600 - 18/01/08 10:45 AM

88MauSporter,

Thank You for your imput. I agree with you as to choosing the .404 Jeffery over present .416's and the .458 Win. Mag.. I have seen 375's like yours built on standard length Mausers and have never heard of anyone having a problem. I am sure that the action is not quite as strong after it has been opened up, but at the same time do not feel from all that I have been told here on the forum that it is dangerious in any way as long as you do not try and use the rifle for a proof rifle. since I do not intend to ever use reloads and only buy factory ammo, I do not see where there should be a problem. I realize that the work must be performed by a competent gunsmith, but in all honesty this goes without saying on any work performed on a rifle.

I imagine if your rifle could take, it would have some very interesting stories to tell. I also imagine that more elephant have been taken with a 375 H&H or smaller caliber than anyone will ever know. For this reason I am cofident that the .404 Jeffery will do just fine on any game I would come in contact with now know to be on this earth.

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Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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JabaliHunter
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: MauserRifle]
      #94630 - 18/01/08 07:44 PM

At the end of the day I'd probably go with the .404 Jefferey. If I wasn't worried about factory ammo, I might be tempted by the .416 Taylor.

One cartridge not mentioned is the .400 Pondoro, but again, factory ammo might be a problem.

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MauserRifle
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #94675 - 19/01/08 10:21 AM

JabaliHunter,

Thank you for your imput. Since factory ammo is a paramont concern as I do not reload and have no desire to do so again, the .404 Jeffery seems like the most viable option. Ther is no doub't in my mind that the .404 Jeffery will handle any animal that comes along. Granted it may not be the choice for a wounded Elephant or Buffalo up close and personal, but outside of this I feel it is one of the best choices for a big bore with the least amount of recoil and that factory ammo is available.

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Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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hoppdoc
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: MauserRifle]
      #94678 - 19/01/08 10:32 AM

The 404 would be fine and a moderate recoiling bolt action rifle. You may also wish to consider getting a 416 Remington and have Superior Ammo or other custom ammo makers make some reduced pressure rounds.

A 416 should be much cheaper to find that the 404 and as stated above others can download it for less recoil. The total cost of such a rig may be less than a 404 bolt.The upside is that if the reduced loads are not enough then you can just buy some factory stuff at full bore!!

Just a thought--

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MauserRifle
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #94683 - 19/01/08 11:04 AM

hoppdoc,

That is a good idea that I had not thought about. I am sure that .416 factory ammo is cheaper than .404 ammo and is far more available. I will have to give this some consideration. Much will depend on being able to find a rifle stocked that suites me, If I can find a rifle in a caliber that can be converted or one that I will have to build from the ground up.

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

Edited by MauserRifle (19/01/08 06:41 PM)

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: MauserRifle]
      #94761 - 20/01/08 07:01 AM

At they end of the day, you cant really go wrong with either, but I think I'd pick the .404 over the Remington factory loads. Yes the Rem .416s are probably cheaper, but also higher pressure and probably higher recoil as well. I also really like the Norma 450grain woodleigh factory loads for the .404
Quote:

Since factory ammo is a paramont concern as I do not reload and have no desire to do so again


Superior is definitely an option, but if you go that route for ammmo, then any of the wildcats also become an option.
JMHO

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MauserRifle
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Re: .40 Caliber Dilemma ? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #94836 - 21/01/08 09:03 AM

JabaliHunter,

From everything that the members have told me and all that I have learned, I am in total agreement with you. The .404 Jeffery is the way to go for me in the big bore department. I am confident tht it will handle any animal alive, factory ammo is available, maybe not everywhere, but is none the less available and being a low pressue cartridge the recoil will be less than the other offerings in caliber .416 or larger.

I certainly wish to thank you and all the other members for all the information and imput on this topic as everyone has been very helpful. There is no doub't that everyone's imput has helped me to settle on the .404 Jeffery.

With the problem of caliber settled one would think this issue would be closed. Unfortunately it is not as other doors have opened as to which rifle to modify or use as a basis for building a .404 Jeffery on have opened. Due to my physical build including face, all my rifles are pre-war Mausers. These rifles have far more drop in the stock, which I need to be able to get my face down far enough on the stock to see the iron sites, and are of slimer stock design which I also prefer. One of the things that I have learned through this topic discussion is that the pre-64 Winchester has a longer action than a standard Mauser length action. In fact what I have learned is tht all pre-64 actions are actually the same length with the bolt stop governing how far back the bolt will travel to allow for longer cartridges. Thus less metel needs to be taken out of the pre-64 action than a standard length Mauser action. Here in lies the problem. Should I sell all my Mausers and purchase pre-64 Winchesters or keep the Mausers and build with them. I want all my rifles to be the same and if possible have the same length of bolt through. I only hunt with 3 calibers ( presently the 7x57, 9.3x62 and now the .404 Jeffery ). Which way do the members here think would be the best route to go???

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Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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