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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
I dislike Wildcats but
      #7723 - 29/01/04 12:21 PM

I have wanted a lightweight big bore for some time and I want a lot of magazine capacity, the 10.5x68 case is perfect to use as is or neck down to a .416 for better bullet selection in the 350 weights....

The 10.75x68 is a mild recoiling big bore that has been overlooked and Horneber brass is now available at Huntington...It will push a BarnesX, Swift, Woodleigh 350 gr. bullet at 2300 plus in a good mauser...but I fear that brass may not be available for long, so I am considering necking a 9.3x64 up to 416. and going that route. That should churn up 2100 plus with a 400 gr. bullet and 2300 in a 350 gr. Barnes X....That case would give me a lot of room in the magazine..

It must not be a fat case as I would end up with 3 down or less perhaps so the belted short mags and 404 based short mags are out.

Maybe just go with the 10.75x68 and buy several hundred cases and be done with it...

C&H has 20 sets of dies at $138.00 and brass from Horneber is $166.per hundred..Less than a 416 Rigby or .470....and could trim with a 06 holder I'm thinking....

So what do ya think???

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
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Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7739 - 29/01/04 03:24 PM

It sounds good. We all could call it the "Short Fat Atkinson", except your'e not short, Ray. Maybe we need to think of another name...maybe the "Fatkinson 416"...

All kidding aside, I think it is a natural! Let us know how things come along. How about using 416 Rigby cases?

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Crazyquik
.275 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 60
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: luv2safari]
      #7740 - 29/01/04 03:30 PM

In reply to:

How about using 416 Rigby cases?



Not enough mag capacity.

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: Crazyquik]
      #7742 - 29/01/04 03:39 PM

I saw Ray's comment. How many down do you think in an average 98 magazine? Ray needs a lot of magazine capacity...so I've been told.]

Seriously, do you think with a Rigby case you could get 3 + 1 in the chamber? That would make a nice wildcat if it would work out that way.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7767 - 30/01/04 01:28 AM

Ray
I read somewhere the 10.75x68 lost favour because of poor penetration, is that true? How would it go with todays moden bullets and powders? What would be the modern equivalent?

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: Bakes]
      #7777 - 30/01/04 06:50 AM

If this calibre is deemed to be ok as a game stopper,why the need for a large mag capacity?I would have thought with the right calibre one wouldnt need a big mag (doubles dont have of course)

If it is really necessary why not a detachable mag made specifically for the gun?

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: gryphon]
      #7780 - 30/01/04 07:32 AM

I THINK, based on the info here, that the 10.75 neched down or the 9.3 necked up would be best...

leaving the 10.75 a 10.75 has got to be hell on bullet selection...

if you're looking for something soft on teh shoulder, either the 64 or 68 case would be reasonable... IIRC the 68 is ~10% behind the 64 in velocity in the loadings I've seen... (I'm probably way off, I've never paid much attention to the european cases).

if the 68 case would allow you to get an extra round in the magazine, go with that.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Edited by dasMafia (30/01/04 08:02 AM)

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #7786 - 30/01/04 08:41 AM

The 10.75 is .423 or 404 caliber, so bullet selection is not a problem and I shoot the 404 and I have a supply of 350 gr. Barnes X bullets...The 10.75x68 and 9.3x64 are the only two cases that will give me the magazine capacity I am looking for

Fact of life is I consider magazine capacity one of the most important aspect of a dangerous game rifle, I don't want to be loading when I should be shooting and dangerous game does not always go down quickly, regardless of the hit.

So I want a light trim rifle that will hold at least 4 down without a drop box, and I can extend the floorplate with a slightly hollowed one and get 5 down and one up for a total of 6 shots in the 10.75x68 which looks like an elongated slightly overwight 30-06, and will get an easy 2375 FPS with a 350 Gr. Barnes X or Bridger solid, that monolithic have the same SD or a standard 400 gr. bullet......

BTW LuvSafari I have dropped 28 lbs in the last couple of months and will be in lean mean fighting machine trim by August, then off to Tanzania with Saeed, Hell I will be able to borrow Saeeds pants if I have too albiet they will only come to my knees, but I will tell everyone they are shorts...

Anyway I have narrowed it down to a 404x68 or a a 404x64, in which case, since its a wildcat I may in fact just go wigh a 416/68 or 64 and have a better selection of lighter bullets available...

The only problem in the early years with the 10.75x68 was bullet integrity, no one made a decent bullet for it and the available bullets were soft and did not penitrate...That does not apply today with Swift, BarnesX, GS Customs, Bridger, Woodleigh and some others who make good bullets in 350 and 400 gr. for this old girl and its time someone resurrected her.....

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7790 - 30/01/04 08:52 AM

Ray,

I am glad to hear that! I went on the Atkins (no, not Atkinson) and lost about 30 lbs, myself...mostly between the ears, so I've been told.

I would like to be kept up to date regarding your new project...sounds like a natural. Call me when it is ready to shoot. I'll buzz up and pick up your remains for burial. Do you think one based on a Rigby would get 3 down without too much drilling and blasting?

The 320 Woodleigh PP's will get shipped out to you on Monday.
Hell, I can't call you a fat old fart anymore,,, just an old fart.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: luv2safari]
      #7801 - 30/01/04 09:52 AM

IIRC, the x68 will be easier to get 5-down, so I'd go with that, since this is obviously a close-quarters gun, that last bit of velocity is easily subjugated to an extra round down.

hell, I only get 4-down 1-in in my M700 25-06, freaking blind magazine...

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Bakes
.375 member


Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7813 - 30/01/04 12:03 PM

Ray
Could you make 9.3x64 cases out of the 10.75x68? I've often read on AR that the 64 cases are almost imposible to find, which are more common?

Bakes

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: Bakes]
      #7834 - 30/01/04 03:16 PM

Bakes,
9.3x64 cases are easy to find of late, Huntingtons has them...The 10.75x68 seems the best route and brass is presently available in good supply, now the problem is the reamer, no one has a reamer..

What I am thinking is perhaps the 8x68 is the proper case and one could use the 8x68 reamer in conjunction with a 404 Jefferys neck button or perhaps a 416 neck?????????? I hope, I hope...but I don't have a book of specs on the either the 10.75x68 or the 8x68, I will have to check this out.........

LuvSafari,
I don't think theCZ in 416 Rigby would be a good canidate for conversion, but it sure would make a nice 500....

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7835 - 30/01/04 03:22 PM

Ray
I would like the record to reflect that awhile back on AR I began recommending the 10.75x68 as the big bore of choice for all of those fellas wanting to make a big bore rifle on the various surplus Mauser actions with minimal gunsmithing.
I opined as this would be an excellent big bore for NA and suitable for African use as well.
When your rifle is completed I expect a "Royalty Payment".

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: NE450No2]
      #7868 - 31/01/04 02:36 AM

NE450,
No fair, I have been expounding on its virtures since John Ricks converted my last one to a 404 because of a lack of brass and thats been 4 years ago, albiet it was on another forum (AR)

Take me to court!! declare war, or lets have a jihad!! you know 70 virgins ain't all that bad a deal!!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39259
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7872 - 31/01/04 03:10 AM

In reply to:

but I don't have a book of specs on the either the 10.75x68 or the 8x68, I will have to check this out







8x68S

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: NitroX]
      #7873 - 31/01/04 03:25 AM

I still say take the 10.75 down to 416 to improve lightweight bullet selection... but hey, that's me, and I only shoot a measly 375...

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7882 - 31/01/04 05:07 AM

Settle down Ray.
It didn,t have to be a big check.
Going to a 416 barrel might be a good idea too as more bullets are available.
Might better rethink that 70 virgins deal. They might be old and fat virgins.

Edited by NE450No2 (31/01/04 05:14 AM)

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7883 - 31/01/04 05:11 AM

In reply to:

Poster: atkinson6
Subject: Re: I dislike Wildcats but
..........
Take me to court!! declare war, or lets have a jihad!! you know 70 virgins ain't all that bad a deal!!





I believe that was 70 Virginians. I doubt if they are all virgins, or even all women. Your choice.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: mickey]
      #7885 - 31/01/04 05:21 AM

Virginians? damn and to top it all off the 8x68 isn't even a match...

So its got to be a std.10.75x68 or the same necked down to a .416...

I like the 416 idea also, but believe the 10.75 is the better way to go as it is not a wildcat and the cartridge case matches the caliber on the barrel and since I may take the gun anywhere that seems the best route for me....however I could stamp 10.75x68 on the barrel and put ( .416 bore ) under that...I know of no foriegn Gov. officials that could figure that out..

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7889 - 31/01/04 05:59 AM

Ray et al.

What's the big deal with the 416? The .423 may not have as many bullets made for it but it sure as Hell has as many 'Good' Bullets made for it. If you have 4-5 that work perfectly why do you need 8-10?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7890 - 31/01/04 06:06 AM

Just got off the phone with the one and only Dennis Olson, solver of most problems while the rest theroize.....

He figured out that one can use the 416 Rem reamer and run it in just so far, then a neck and throat reamer to get a 10.75x68 chamber or a 10.75x68 necked down to a 416....

And the neat thing is that one can turn the belts off a 416 Rem, resize the case and trim to length, viola!! a 10.75x68..so if the brass dries up, there is light at the end of the tunnel..

Doncha love it when a plan comes together.

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
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Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: mickey]
      #7892 - 31/01/04 07:16 AM

Because 8-10 is always better than 4-5! If "some" is good, then "more" is better, and "too much" is just enough...Besides, we have some excellent bullet options here in the US that don't include the hard to find and "obsolete" calibers or the hard to find Woodleighs. I wish the Woodleighs would catch on better here, and improve the availability and lower the prices.

Looking at the 10.75 specs makes it a natural for what Ray is doing.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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mickey
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Posts: 4647
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Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: luv2safari]
      #7901 - 31/01/04 07:48 AM

In reply to:

Poster: luv2safari
Subject: Re: I dislike Wildcats but

Because 8-10 is always better than 4-5! If "some" is good, then "more" is better, and "too much" is just enough...Besides, we have some excellent bullet options here in the US that don't include the hard to find and "obsolete" calibers or the hard to find Woodleighs. I wish the Woodleighs would catch on better here, and improve the availability and lower the prices.




The 404 is obsolete? I realize a lot of people like to screw around with all sorts of different combinations in an effort to convince themselves that there is an improvement somewhere, even if it is only in decimal points on paper. However, making new brass and a new and unique rifle to take advantage of this marginal difference and to take advantage of the addition of 4-5 different bullets, that do exactly the same job, or in this case, a slightly worse job, seems odd. I realize that some people just have to F#@k around with everything and I have been accused of this myself, but that is all it is. Nothing is gained, and a little is lost in necking down the 10.75 to .416.

There, now I will get stringifluted and girfhaltered but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.





--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: mickey]
      #7924 - 31/01/04 11:54 AM

Mick,
Bottom line is that its gonna be MY gun!! nobody elses...and your correct in your generalization of the whole shebang! and I even have a 404 Jefferys, but I want to play with this one, it has very little recoil and can be made very easily...and its not a wildcat...so what the heck!!

And most of all, you ain't got one!

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: I dislike Wildcats but [Re: atkinson6]
      #7935 - 31/01/04 12:53 PM

Ray

I suppose that if I could actually do some of the things that you can I might F#@k around with stuff too. I end up taking apart and building houses instead?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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