Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
edmhunter
.224 member


Reged: 16/03/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ill.
Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle?
      #74315 - 22/03/07 11:56 AM

Who make the best rifle? I am looking at Dakota african in 375 HH.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74318 - 22/03/07 12:19 PM

The new Ruger 375 African offers as much bag for the buck as anything else currently out there. With a little elbow grease the Rem 798 and the CZ 550 can also be made into seriously reliable DG rifles.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
WyoJoe
.300 member


Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: 458Win]
      #74336 - 22/03/07 03:37 PM

I am with you Phil. I think the .375 Ruger has potential.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AzGuy
.333 member


Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74337 - 22/03/07 03:39 PM

Edmhunter,

First of all, welcome to the forum. Lots of good guys and info here.

Best rifle??? Depends on the size of your wallet! Lots of good ones to chose from: the Dakota you mention makes most lists as does the CRF Model 70 Winchester, most Mausers, the Kimbers are good, and I believe the new 375 Ruger is going to be popular and productive.

Some of it depends on your definition of a DG rifle.....does it start @ 375 or 416 or 458 or etc?

Shoot as many as you can BEFORE you buy. Then buy one, shoot it alot, and have fun. Let us know what you end up with.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74346 - 22/03/07 07:30 PM

It truly depends on your tastes and the game hunted.

Most folks would use some variant of the Mauser action with CRF(controlled round feeding).They would avoid push feed bolts.

I would personally avoid any type of push feed action due to shooter reliablity issues with concerns of the shooter "short stroking" the action under stress and rendering the rifle useless. This could be fatal in a DG scenario.

For the heat of Africa and Buff/Ele a large BRNO 602 action or similar CZ action can be employed for the 416 Rigby class of cartridges.The Ruger equivilent, a investment cast type action,(not forged)is an option as well. Other smaller action sizes usually can be used from 375 to 458 diameter projectiles depending on shooter preference.

As for the make of the rifle it is whatever your pocketbook can stand!!!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JTOMLINSON
.300 member


Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 188
Loc: York, England
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74359 - 22/03/07 10:22 PM

edm

Welcome to the forum.

You have probably started quite a thread with this question. What you will find from the answers, all of which will undoubteldy be correct, is that they are all very subjective as far as calibre and looks/style goes.

Your question makes reference to dangerous game so as a start you are on the right road with .375 H&H, this is often the minumum calibre for DG in many African countries and often recommended as a minimum calibre by alaskan guides for the big bears. It is also the largest calibre that a number of users can comfortably shoot well due to recoil.

That said, and as has been correcty stated above, much will depend on personal preference and the size of your bank book in terms of cost.

There are many desiarable features for a DGR, controlled feed is liked by many, myself included, but is not absolutely necessary, as is the feature of a magnum magazine box to hold 4 or 5 rounds, again not necessary, but definitely useful.

Before I parted with any amount of cash, if I were coming in from the cold to buy for the first time I would try and see as many makes as possible and speak to users of those in which you have an interest. Maybe if funds permit you could even look at custom or semi- custom makers, you are fortunate in the U.S in having some top flight bespoke builders of fine rifles, as we also have a number of here in the U.K.

Ruger rifles do offer some nicely made guns and the CZ rifle can make a useful DGR, but may require some aftermarket work to sort a few build issues out, many PH's use CZ rifles, but these have often had issues such as bedding and stock problems sorted prior to being taken to the dark continent.

I am not going to go into depth on any prticualr rifles as I do not have experience of many of the current makes, I am merely trying to offer some generic advice, I guess even stating the bleeding obvious, I hope you do not feel I am trying to insult your intelligence but urge you look around, even seeking the opportunity to try those you like in particular and then make a final choice from those you like most at which time you could further seek the input of fellow forumites.

Good luck


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74368 - 23/03/07 12:47 AM

Quote:

Who make the best rifle? I am looking at Dakota african in 375 HH.




Since you are looking for a "best" rifle, I think you will need to adjust your sights higher than Dakota, Ruger or most of the common name brands. Instead, you could have a best rifle made by a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild. For between $10K and $20K you will receive the best of custom rifles that American gunmakers are building today. Or you could go to Hartmann & Weiss, Gottfried Prechtl, Karl-Heinz Ritterbusch, Trevor Proctor, H&H, Westley Richards, or others making guns in Europe for a best quality rifle.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74372 - 23/03/07 01:51 AM

Welcome to the board Edmhunter

Since 500 Grains has mentioned some of the finest European makers I would add one more that you may want to consider
SZECSEI/FUCHS, it is double barreled bolt action and it is meant dangerous game in a big way! 6 shots in under 20 seconds.
you can see a video clip of the gun being fired on the website.... Fuchs Fine Guns.com

just my 2 cents worth on the subject

Again, welcome to the board

DT

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AzGuy
.333 member


Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: 500grains]
      #74374 - 23/03/07 02:33 AM

500Grains,

You make a very good point. There is a world of difference (cost wise) between the best working DGR and the best/most expensive DGR. Very good ("best" implies only one) working DG bolt actions can be had for around $2500 on up. The very "best" DG rifles have no upper limits on what they cost, only limiting factor is what you can afford. BTW, there is a place for both of these types of rifles.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Savuti_One_Shot
.300 member


Reged: 24/01/07
Posts: 139
Loc: Florida
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: AzGuy]
      #74385 - 23/03/07 04:27 AM

I agree with Phil's comments above. However, if you are already looking at the Dakota price level, I think you'd be much better served by an Empire. www.empirerifles.com

SOS

--------------------
"I've this damned cannon." - Robert Wilson


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
edmhunter
.224 member


Reged: 16/03/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ill.
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Savuti_One_Shot]
      #74402 - 23/03/07 09:51 AM

Would the empire rifle be comparable with all the best rifles? What would be the difference name recognition, or true quality and or features?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
MopaneMike
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/06
Posts: 147
Loc: So Cal USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74408 - 23/03/07 01:01 PM

If I might step in and add, American Hunting Rifles inc. Ed over at AHR is turning out some pretty good stuff on one of the best actions available.. The CZ, at some very reasonable prices..

--------------------
MopaneMike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: MopaneMike]
      #74411 - 23/03/07 01:14 PM

For me it would need to be centreline feed and Push Feed.

It could be CRF centreline feed as long as the condition and dimensions of the case rim are guaranteed.

Ideally, the bullet diameter shoud be quite a bit smaller than the rear of the chamber....unless with calibres like 458 spitzers or semi spitzers are used.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74426 - 23/03/07 10:02 PM

I have a "used" but as new Dakota.Couldn't stomach the price new(basically I'm tight with the Dollar)but it was gorgeous, discounted, and fit me perfectly.

I like the Dakota alot as a "semi custom" rifle and mine balances and shoots well.If you are going to hunt hard you may wish to get a similar caliber with a synthetic stock or get a synthetic stock to swap for your high end bolt.I have one nice wood stock I must refinish due to dings/divits/loss of finish secondary to hunting hard in humidity/wet conditions.

Synthetic stocks look like caca but do have a place in harsh environments.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74501 - 25/03/07 02:02 AM

For my money, the best bolt action hunting rifles in the world, including the most reliable dangerous game rifles, are built by D'Arcy Echols & Company, the David Miller Company, Mark Penrod, Ryan Breeding, and Gene Simillion. These guys get the absolute most out of either the Mauser 98 action or the Winchester Model 70 action, and whatever little quirks either one of those designs has going in, they'll eliminate all the problems and refine and perfect to the zenith of quality and reliability.

I also like custom rifles by Roger Biesen and Duane Wiebe.

Some of the rest of them are primariliy building either art rifles and safe queens, and not serious hunting rifles. Or else they're so focused on that icon called "benchrest-accuracy" that they're totally lost when it comes to feeding and function.

The guys I mentioned build COMPLETE rifles, taking into consideration accuracy as well as reliable function, plus stock design, balance, etc.

All of my personal hunting rifles were built by D'Arcy Echols.......

AD


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74503 - 25/03/07 02:31 AM

Quote:

Would the empire rifle be comparable with all the best rifles? What would be the difference name recognition, or true quality and or features?




Absolutely not. THey are better quality than Dakota, but are still not always there with regard to feeding, fit and general workmanship, IMO.

Waffenfabrik Hein is another competitor in the under 10K price bracket and they are better done than EMpire based on the examples I have seen, again IMO.

D'Arcy Echols is going to charge you 10K to 20K, but his rifles are definitely superior in terms of function, feeding and overall finish quality. The same would hold true for Ryan Breeding (www.rbbigbores.com), Joe Smithson, Duane Wiebe, Gene Simillion, John Bolliger, Ray Branigan and about 30 other American custom riflemakers. Personally I feel that a guy should get a true magnum Mauser action for that price rather than a reworked model 70, but the customers are happy so the market has decided.

AHR rifles are in the under 5K class, and feeding can be hit or miss depending on the chambering. If you go the AHR route, be sure to get one with the single stack magazine box as that seems to resolve all feeding issues.

When I started building custom rifles and dangerous game hunting I made the grievous error of trying to cut corners on cost. As a result I ended up with several unsatisfactory custom rifles. I wish I had just written out a check for $15K right at the beginning and gotten a good one. Saving money on a custom rifle is no saving at all.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: 500grains]
      #74530 - 25/03/07 09:38 AM

500 grains--- Thank you for the commentary!

But if you were to specify the components for various custom rifles by the maker of your choice,
(long question and sorry to put you on the spot--)
what components would you prefer??

Action-Granite Mountain Arms vs??
Barrel-Lilja,Shilen, Douglas, and others et al--
Trigger-Timmey vs ???
Sights--???
Mounts-???
Wood and woodwork performed??

Every fellow has his own preferences, what would yours be for various action sizes-- i.e---

a 50 cal Jeffery or AHR bolt,
a 375 H&H bolt
and then maybe a
338 WM bolt??

Thanks much!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (25/03/07 09:40 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #74547 - 25/03/07 12:37 PM

doc, can you tell me what caliber? That will help me narrow the field.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: 500grains]
      #74555 - 25/03/07 01:18 PM

500 grains--

Sir-

As aluded to in past old threads several bolt action "wants" are still out there.

I remain interested in a quality outfit building a 500 AHR or Jeffery bolt(I agree on the single stack mag) for me and am interested in requesting preferred components for a quality hunting/working gun.I believe you have had or have multiple 50+cal bolts you have hunted with.

I am also debating whether to do a custom 375 H&H or 338 WM by a known quality smith(to retain as much real $$value as possible)for my eldest son as something to remember our hunts together.I am leaning toward the 338WM as more utilitarian for the states.A 375 H&H would probably end up a safe queen.

Thanks for any info offered--

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (25/03/07 09:53 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #74593 - 26/03/07 04:54 AM

Doc,

I would not build a .500 AHR for two reasons. First, the brass is made by Bertram and their quality is quite poor in my experience with their brass in .470 NE, .500 NE, .600 NE, and .585 Nyati. Second, the .500 AHR has very little following and resale value will be poor.

I would not built a .500 Jeffery for two reasons. First, they are difficult to get to feed 100%, and there are very few people who know how to do that (and one of them work at AHR ). Second, even if yours feeds 100%, at the time of resale, buyers will be suspicious of it and it may be hard to sell.

If you wish to build a rifle in the under $5K category, I would just rebarrel a CZ550 in .416 Rigby to .500 A-Square. Add a recoil lug to the barrel, change the safety to a model 70 style, and get rid of the ugly factory bolt handle. Of course the crappy factory CZ sights should be discarded and a quality iron sight added.

If you are looking for a best quality gun, then I suggest the .505 Gibbs because it is an excellent cartridge and seems to have the best resale value. None of the big fat cartridges are easy to get to feed, but the Gibbs is not as hard as the .500 Jeff. Generally there are two paths to a .505 Gibbs. You could have an American riflemaker build one on a Granite Mountain Arms action. Or you could have Karl Heinz Ritterbusch or Gottfried Prechtl in Germany build the action and rifle for you from scratch. If you have the money and time, I would consider the German route. Ritterbusch can even make it a takedown if you want. Or you could get the gun made in the USA by one of the top end gunmakers based on a Granite Mountain Arms action. The European route will probably cost you 20K or more, and the American route will probably cost you 12K to 15K to get it done right. On the American side I would consider Ryan Breeding or Joe Smithson for the work. If you try to cut corners or save money on the project, the results could end up being unsatisfactory.

I killed 4 ele with a .505 made by Ryan Breeding. It was an excellent rifle and recoil was manageable due to stock design.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: 500grains]
      #74594 - 26/03/07 04:56 AM

About the 338 vs 375, recoil is the same but the 375 is much more versatile. I would get your son the .375. John Bolliger and Ray Branigan turn out great custom .375's based on model 70's. My personal preference would be a takedown .375 on a Granite Mountain action with Smithson QD mounts, all by Joe Smithson. I would estimate about 20K for the project. But lots of guys in the American Custom Gunmakers Guild can turn out a fabulous .375 if given a reasonable budget and 2 years.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: 500grains]
      #74599 - 26/03/07 05:16 AM

Darcy Echols comes to mind - probably in a very elite crowd of heavy bolt guns.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: DarylS]
      #74605 - 26/03/07 07:01 AM

500 grains--

Much thanks and Excellent advise!! A takedown 375 H&H would be a real treasure for a father to give to a son. I will check with Smithson et al on prices.I LIKE that idea.

Sorry for one further question-

Given quality components is there a smith you recommend for a well functioning working 500 A square on the CZ action for around/under 5K?? I don't know that Breeding or Smithson would even want to pursue a rifle at this level.I would like to swap out a synthetic stock with the wood for some hunts in hostile environments.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (26/03/07 07:11 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #74616 - 26/03/07 09:14 AM

doc, I have responded to your PM with specific recommendations. You are right that the guys building best quality guns generally don't want to touch a cz conversion.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Safarischorsch
.275 member


Reged: 28/02/04
Posts: 98
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: edmhunter]
      #74785 - 28/03/07 06:56 AM

Well in .375:

http://www.heym-waffenfabrik.de/english/S_Buechs/S_MagBue/s_ExpLht%20eng/st_ExpLht.html

If you wanna have more than .416 Remmag take the Express.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Safarischorsch]
      #74848 - 28/03/07 07:41 PM

Heym will make a 500 A Square!!
Wonder what the cartridge capacity and weight would be??
I will PM New Guy---

http://www.heym-waffenfabrik.de/english/S_Buechs/S_MagBue/st_MagBu.html

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Cazadero
.375 member


Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Texas
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Safarischorsch]
      #266798 - 22/06/15 10:55 AM

An old post from 2007.

But let's stir it up anyway.

The best dangerous game bolt-action rifle is actually a double...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Cazadero]
      #266800 - 22/06/15 11:02 AM

You mean like that double barreled, double bolt action'd .416 Rigby?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Cazadero
.375 member


Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Texas
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: DarylS]
      #266802 - 22/06/15 12:44 PM

Quote:

You mean like that double barreled, double bolt action'd .416 Rigby?




Good answer!

Someone is paying attention!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Safarischorsch]
      #266803 - 22/06/15 01:49 PM

If money was no object and you want a real Classic, a Magnum Mauser 98 in 500 Jeffery made New by Mauser in Germany ,i dont think you could get any better than that, and not 30 or 40 Thousand Dollars like some overpriced ''Customs''

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Old_Glass
.300 member


Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Safarischorsch]
      #266813 - 22/06/15 03:12 PM

I'll offer a guess: the rifle which is the most reliable, the rifle you are most familiar with, and the rifle you shoot the best. Hopefully that is the same one.

Remember all the big game hunters of olden dayes who used .256 Mannlichers and .303 Lee Speeds? Shot placement and an intimate knowledge of the physiology of the animals they were hunting.

And plenty of other random skills of course.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Old_Glass]
      #266814 - 22/06/15 03:49 PM

Which is why the easy shooting, but penetrating rounds of the 9.3x62 and .375H&H become so popular & making such terrific names for themselves - for hunting the big 5.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Claydog
.375 member


Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 934
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: DarylS]
      #266817 - 22/06/15 04:15 PM

Took a guy out recently that had a Heym bolt action in 416 Rigby and must say I was very impressed. Well made and a beautiful looking rifle. Selling a few of my other rifles off to try and get one.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BillG500
.300 member


Reged: 16/10/14
Posts: 129
Loc: Australia
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Claydog]
      #266823 - 22/06/15 06:00 PM

Something that is not too heavy and can be carried all day on a Mauser 98. A lot of DG rifles have a fair bit of heft to them. I'd give up weight and a little more recoil received for portability and being pointable any day. Anything from 9.3 to under .500 I'd class as a DG rifle, above .500 a stopper and then I'd use my double.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: BillG500]
      #266861 - 23/06/15 10:50 AM

Quote:

Something that is not too heavy and can be carried all day on a Mauser 98. A lot of DG rifles have a fair bit of heft to them. I'd give up weight and a little more recoil received for portability and being pointable any day. Anything from 9.3 to under .500 I'd class as a DG rifle, above .500 a stopper and then I'd use my double.




I love my 500 Jeffery but it weighs 12 lbs with scope, unloaded without sling. So I work out with barbells lol. We have a Remington XCR II in 375 Weatherby with a 24" barrel that weighs 7.25 lbs with scope without sling or ammo. Recoil is mild when shooting 375 H&H factory loads, a little snappy with 375 Weatherby loads (300g bullets at 2700 plus fps). I think the XCR II stock soaks up recoil because it kicks less than the 9 lb 375 H&H CZ 550 I owned. Now if someone could make a 375 H&H on a Mauser 98 in stainless/synthetic that weighs that much, with the same recoil characteristics, I'd buy one.

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SharpsNitro
.375 member


Reged: 12/08/08
Posts: 729
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: chuck375]
      #266873 - 23/06/15 12:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Something that is not too heavy and can be carried all day on a Mauser 98. A lot of DG rifles have a fair bit of heft to them. I'd give up weight and a little more recoil received for portability and being pointable any day. Anything from 9.3 to under .500 I'd class as a DG rifle, above .500 a stopper and then I'd use my double.




I love my 500 Jeffery but it weighs 12 lbs with scope, unloaded without sling. So I work out with barbells lol. We have a Remington XCR II in 375 Weatherby with a 24" barrel that weighs 7.25 lbs with scope without sling or ammo. Recoil is mild when shooting 375 H&H factory loads, a little snappy with 375 Weatherby loads (300g bullets at 2700 plus fps). I think the XCR II stock soaks up recoil because it kicks less than the 9 lb 375 H&H CZ 550 I owned. Now if someone could make a 375 H&H on a Mauser 98 in stainless/synthetic that weighs that much, with the same recoil characteristics, I'd buy one.




I can see that. I'm shooting a 338LM in a 12-13lb gun from the bench and it's not bad (efficient brake and/or suppressor). I'm pushing 300gr Bergers at 2850fps. The recoil is tolerable enough to get 1/4" groups at 100yds.

If I had the money I would get the Dakota Traveler in 338LM and 416R. I've seen a few used setups like this that sorely tempted me but luckily I didn't have the money to buy.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim_C
.300 member


Reged: 09/08/14
Posts: 169
Loc: USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Old_Glass]
      #266878 - 23/06/15 02:25 PM

Quote:

I'll offer a guess: the rifle which is the most reliable, the rifle you are most familiar with, and the rifle you shoot the best. Hopefully that is the same one.



I have to agree with Old Glass, and would add, "the rifle that fits you best".

The cumulative effects of too many injuries over the years made me set aside my big bores, but I recently learned that I can still handle a decent medium if it fits me. My 9.3 is a good example.

It is built on a 98 action, which pretty-much covers the "reliability" criteria, and the mechanical aspects of the "familiarity" criteria. The fit is such that I can comfortably run 100 rounds through it in an afternoon's plinking, building familiarity. I've not found a .375 H&H that fits me as well, but a friend has a .404 that is a near-twin to my 9.3. I can put 50 rounds through it in an afternoon (probably more, but we only had 50 rounds with us that day). Either would suit me far better for hunting dangerous game than a bigger bore that I couldn't handle as well.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Jim_C]
      #266923 - 24/06/15 10:52 AM

50 rounds through a 404 Jeffery is probably past my tolerance. My humble admiration to you. These days I don't put more than 20 rounds down range from my 500 Jeffery in a session. I have other rifles I shoot more volume through. I practice offhand, kneeling and sitting with the 500 (I have taken a cow elk at 200 plus yards with it sitting). I don't shoot it from the bench unless I've taken the scope off (Talley QR rings) and then it's usually no more than a 1/4" off so three shots are all I need from the bench. Except from the bench, my shooting technique (or lack thereof) is the same with a 270 as a 375 or a 500 (except I don't shoot the 500 prone).

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: chuck375]
      #266933 - 24/06/15 06:03 PM

If your doing a dangerous game hunt realistically how many shots will you fire ?[not 50] probably 5 at most ,and most of the time you wont feel the recoil anyway ,just because old time hunters used Mannlicher 6.5s and 303s didnt necessarily mean they were crack shots, and either had factory solids or softs[nothing like the choice we have now] ,and no scopes ,i bet plenty of dangerous game got wounded[that they never write about] with inadequate calibres ,because they had nothing else or couldnt afford the bigger guns or they were not available for what ever reason .What is wrong with a ''Stopper'' isnt that what you want on dangerous game ? since the Question was Best Dangerous game Bolt action Rifle .Trouble being shooters want to go to the range and expect to put 50 plus shots out of their big bore ,and then say it kicks too much ,when they are not made for that ,but specialised Hunting where you are not going to be firing anywhere near that.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: Old_Glass]
      #266940 - 24/06/15 11:05 PM

Quote:

I'll offer a guess: the rifle which is the most reliable, the rifle you are most familiar with, and the rifle you shoot the best. Hopefully that is the same one.




Quote: "Something that is not too heavy and can be carried all day on a Mauser 98. A lot of DG rifles have a fair bit of heft to them. I'd give up weight and a little more recoil received for portability and being pointable any day."

At the risk of boring everyone to tears, I will repeat my well worn story. In 1971, when the choice of really effective dangerous games rifles was at perhaps its lowest ebb in 75 years, I took a rifle with me to Africa, built around a cartridge I had developed myself, using a shortened .460 Weatherby case opened up to accept a 570 grain .505 bullet. Ballistically, it mimicked the .500 NE, propelling the bullet at 2150 fps.

The rifle was built on a P14 Enfield action with a Buhmiller barrel and stocked to my specifications by Reinhardt Fajan. It weighed 8 3/4 pounds and came up to my shoulder like a well designed shotgun. This was due, no doubt, to the fact that I used the stock measurements furnished me by Holland & Holland after a day's shooting at their London Shooting School with one of their try guns.

I used the same measurements on my Perazzi Skeet 1 12 gauge, which I used to shoot International Skeet. This is a sport which requires the shooter to call for the bird with the butt stock touching the hip bone, and not raise it until the bird is visible outside the trap house. Since there may be a pause a long as three seconds between the time the bird is called for and when it is actually released, the shooter must react to the bird, instead of vice-versa.

I used a primitive version of a "Lead Sled" to develop loads off the bench and sight in. After that, I seldom fired a full load, using reduced, cast bullet loads to practice with. I expended hundreds of the latter, simply walking around the farm and taking snap shots at targets of opportunity.

In Africa, I fired the rifle over the hood of the hunting car with a folded towel under my shirt to confirm my zero, and then fired shots only "in anger". Firing at an elephant, a rhino or a Cape buffalo I never noticed the recoil and was able to manipulate the bolt fast enough to get three shots into a running rhino and four into a running buffalo. In all, I took three elephants, five buffalo and a rhino with it, and it never let me down.

Here it is, with me and my first elephant:



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: xausa]
      #266943 - 25/06/15 01:11 AM

Well done and presented.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kano
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
Re: Best dangerous game Bolt action rifle? [Re: DarylS]
      #267535 - 07/07/15 05:07 PM

The best dangerous game rifle is one that never lets you down, and with which you can hit what you want to hit.

Anything above that is fancy work and money spent on cosmetics.

Utter reliability can be obtained from a factory rifle "finished" and tweaked by someone who knows what he's doing, in just a few hours of work.

Perfect fit is more difficult to achieve, but can be done satisfactorily if the shooter knows what to look for in matters of fit.

The choice of caliber is VERY secondary, as there are no really ill-suited calibers (within reason, not advocating the .22 WMR here...) as long as the ammo is top notch and the shooter can handle them. Everyone makes a choice based on a number of personal considerations, including field experience over the years, ammo/bullets availability, and "cool" or "classic" factors.

There are many good actions/rifles out there, and a lot more that are NOT what to use to get absolute reliability. Searches on the Net will yield opinions and advices from hundreds of people, spanning decades. A good indicative trend can be drawn from these.

Now, for the "Big Names". I have personally seen rifles worth thousands of dollars with totally unacceptable failures in the field. Comes to mind a take-down Dakota in .375 with ever-so misaligned action and barrel, that would not allow the bolt to pull back if used normally! Extremely few "DG" rifle makers actually get their rifles tested in the field under Pro conditions, and many of them build rifles for the big bucks sales and the hype on all the "DG" features they can cram in, without checking the function of these in the real world.

I have also seen a number of lowly rifles based on CZ/Brno, Zastava, or surplus M98 actions that were flawless performers (and to refute an earlier post in this thread, CZ actions have been used by top gunmakers for years, including Rigby in their London days before the California Rigby debacle).

If you look at the working tools of true professionals who spend their lives in DG game country, and whose lives depend on their rifles, you'll find a lot of battered rifles with homemade (crudely, at times) features that are the real Mc Coy, because it's not there to impress, but it's there because it works. Phil Shoemaker's rifles come to mind. I don't know him personally, but his rifles make perfect sense - and are ugly as a boar's butt.

So, what is the perfect DG rifle? I doubt that you can buy it over the counter. It's something personal, and you'll know it's YOUR perfect rifle after having gained experience with it, and modded it or changed it according to what you learned in the field, AND what you learned from people who have been there and done that.

But it does not need to break the bank, it just needs careful consideration and sound choices.

--------------------
Philip

Edited by Kano (07/07/15 05:11 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 50 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 19008

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved