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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1297
Loc: France / Germany

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: Rule303]
#379852 - 05/10/23 04:20 PM

It certainly wasn't successful.

Unfortunately, when you see how things went with the cartridge 460 WBY-Magnum, not much more could be expected, despite the reduced load. In addition, the cartridge was primarily intended for rifles from Holland & Holland, rifles that not everyone can afford.

Things look a little different with the cartridge 450 Rigby, in a comparable caliber class, as you can also have it in serial rifles in the meantime. But I don't know whether this cartridge will be very successful.

I think that the competition with much cheaper equipment in caliber 458 Win Mag or 458 Lott is very tough, and that the current trend among clients is anyway towards smaller calibers.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: grandveneur]
#379854 - 05/10/23 04:30 PM

H&H would not being making many rifles anyway. Success is not measured by numbers made.

If ammunition can be supplied with the rifle it will last out most H&H buyers needs.

No one professional would buy a .465 H&H.

However professional users do buy the .450 Rigby.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1297
Loc: France / Germany

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: NitroX]
#379855 - 05/10/23 04:51 PM

I don't know what is it at this time with ammunition 465 H&H Magnum. Wolfgang Romey in Germany produced for Holland & Holland ammunition for this cartridge in the past, but this firm is no longer active.

I can imagine that PH's use the cartridge 450 Rigby in weapons that are not too expensive, but that remains a small market for this cartridge.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: grandveneur]
#379856 - 05/10/23 06:05 PM

Rigby planned for 50 rifles when they first released their Big Game model rifle in the first year. They received orders for 150. Most would have been .416s. But some .375s and 450s I believe.

I don't like to comment on numbers because I don't know for sure, but big name Brit makers don't make many rifles per year. Often only a handful of less. More shotguns.

That's a disaster if Romney is no longer in business. We need some reputable specialist semi custom ammunition makers.

Having said that I managed to buy some 9.3x74R ammo from a gun shop this week. Unheard of. They had x72R as well. And four different brands of 300 GR 375 H&H.

One wouldn't get a rifle made if the gunmaker could not supply ammunition, if ammunition,or components were not available.

I noted on the .318 WR rifle thread, WR supplied 200 cartridges of Kynoch 250 gr Woodleign RNSP with the rifle. Maybe that will last the needs of the owners use of the very fine rifle? It wouldn't last me!

But would be enough for a half dozen safaris, some driven game hunting and the occasional boar, red stag, or moose each year.

But I'd want to occasionally practice with the rifle as well.

Edited to correct Android spelling ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (29/10/23 03:52 PM)

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chuck375
.333 member

Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: NitroX]
#380431 - 29/10/23 03:28 AM

I think Holland and Holland could've legitimized two rounds and had a great deal more success. The 404-375 H&H wildcat (an unimproved 375 H&H necked up to take .423 bullets) and the 470 Capstick. Both based on the 375 H&H case, both fine cartridges in my opinion.

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

Edited by chuck375 (29/10/23 03:29 AM)

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Rule303
.416 member

Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4917
Loc: Woodford Qld

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: chuck375]
#380435 - 29/10/23 11:34 AM

Quote:

I think Holland and Holland could've legitimized two rounds and had a great deal more success. The 404-375 H&H wildcat (an unimproved 375 H&H necked up to take .423 bullets) and the 470 Capstick. Both based on the 375 H&H case, both fine cartridges in my opinion.

That would have made sense to me. Though for sales I would have made the 404-375 on an improved case.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: NitroX]
#380442 - 29/10/23 03:59 PM

Quote:

That's a disaster if Romney is no longer in business. We need some reputable specialist semi custom ammunition makers.

...

I noted on the .318 WR rifle thread, WR supplied 200 cartridges of Kynoch 250 gr Woodleign RNSP with the rifle.

I believe I was told Kynamco/Kynoch is no longer making ammunition. Is this so?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1414
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: NitroX]
#380454 - 30/10/23 02:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

That's a disaster if Romney is no longer in business. We need some reputable specialist semi custom ammunition makers.

...

I noted on the .318 WR rifle thread, WR supplied 200 cartridges of Kynoch 250 gr Woodleign RNSP with the rifle.

I believe I was told Kynamco/Kynoch is no longer making ammunition. Is this so?

I have heard/read the same.
A rather moot point here in the USA as there has been no Kynoch importer for quite awhile.

Sourcing the vintage Brit cartridges in the USA is tough, even for one that reloads; Bertram brass is scarce/unobtainable and of course Woodleigh is still rebuilding with no bullets available here either.

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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jgrabow
.300 member

Reged: 22/12/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Winter Wisconsin

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: Rule303]
#380465 - 30/10/23 11:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think Holland and Holland could've legitimized two rounds and had a great deal more success. The 404-375 H&H wildcat (an unimproved 375 H&H necked up to take .423 bullets) and the 470 Capstick. Both based on the 375 H&H case, both fine cartridges in my opinion.

That would have made sense to me. Though for sales I would have made the 404-375 on an improved case.

Here a picture of a 404-375 H&H round, basic 375 H&H brass, an improved 404-375 H&H round and a 404 Jeffery round.

The improved round is the 375 H&H brass resized in a 404 Jeffery die. Looks like it has room for a few more grains of powder.

I still haven't built he 465 H&H that I showed on the second page.

--------------------
Jim

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: jgrabow]
#380467 - 30/10/23 01:42 PM

Might be the photo, but the Jeffery round appears to be larger in diameter from the base to the shoulder, than the .404-375 "improved".
Ahh - Google checked, the .404 Jeff. is .545" at the base, and .523" at the shoulder. Thus, it will likely have greater capacity than the .404/.375, due to the considerable capacity difference.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: DarylS]
#380472 - 30/10/23 04:29 PM

People talking about H&H copying some wildcat, has H&H ever done anything but original?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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chuck375
.333 member

Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO

Re: .465 H&H cartridge [Re: NitroX]
#380512 - 01/11/23 03:55 AM

Maybe they should since both the 404-375 H&H and 470 Capstick based on the 375 H&H. Their 400 and 465 H&H cartridges were ludicrous.

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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