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Ripp
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The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges
      #360875 - 22/01/22 03:49 AM

I don't like articles like this.. BUT, it creates discussion.. so???

The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges

When you’re facing an angry Cape buffalo, lion, or elephant at rock-throwing distance, you’ll want one of these six serious stopper rounds

BY DAVID E. PETZ

https://www.fieldandstream.com/story/gun...juZQUj2wRCyhpnE

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crshelton
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #360881 - 22/01/22 06:01 AM

I don't like articles like this..

Neither do I, but the guy has to publish or perish. IMHO, articles like this are written for and read by people new to the sport. I hope the author earns enough to feed his family.

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DarylS
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: crshelton]
      #360887 - 22/01/22 09:16 AM

Ahh - these aren't too bad, as they at least give room for discussion with otions in the title.

The articles I detest most vehemently are those entitled:

"The last(or final) word on defense guns"
"The last(or final) word on dangerous game ctgs."
"The last(or final) word on big game rifles"
"The last(or final) word on open sights for dangerous game"

A "late" gun magazine writer with the initials J.W. who had been to Africa once of twice used to write articles entitled like these.

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260rem
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: DarylS]
      #360893 - 22/01/22 11:46 AM

No 600 nitro?
If you really wanted the oh crap save me round then surely it should have taken a spot.
On the down side not many people can handle the recoil on any of them, but to anyone who reads that article ould easily get away with taking a 375H&H as they will have a guide who's job it is to carry the big gun to save your backside.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: 260rem]
      #360900 - 22/01/22 06:59 PM

No hum. His comments are not even correct eg uses 100 year old .404 ballistics.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #360909 - 22/01/22 11:53 PM

Big nasty recoiling rifles. Even makes one fingers numb when shooting. Funny spends half of the .500 Nitro paragraph on the .460 Weatherby May????

Why 6? Is that a magical number?

Lots of other choices.

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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #360917 - 23/01/22 01:42 AM

Quote:

Big nasty recoiling rifles. Even makes one fingers numb when shooting. Funny spends half of the .500 Nitro paragraph on the .460 Weatherby May????

Why 6? Is that a magical number?

Lots of other choices.




John

Its a new world now.. you are no longer allowed think of more than 6. AND, if you do think of all 6 you must be masked and vaccinated.. IF, heaven forbid, you thought of 7 or 8, you absolutey have to have a booster shot.. otherwise you'll become partially paralyzed and will have to self quarantine for 30 days.. SO, STOP.. don't question anything..

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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: DarylS]
      #360924 - 23/01/22 02:54 AM

Quote:

Ahh - these aren't too bad, as they at least give room for discussion with otions in the title.

The articles I detest most vehemently are those entitled:

"The last(or final) word on defense guns"
"The last(or final) word on dangerous game ctgs."
"The last(or final) word on big game rifles"
"The last(or final) word on open sights for dangerous game"

A "late" gun magazine writer with the initials J.W. who had been to Africa once of twice used to write articles entitled like these.




I agree--- THE BEST RIFLE EVER.. THE BEST DEER CALIBER..THE BEST ELK CALIBER..

Such BS, is what it's best at..

I do agree with some of his info..IF I was limited to one caliber to hunt all of Africa with I'd choose the .416 Rem.. stating that based on my 6 hunts in Africa.. It is still relatively flat shooting.. hits hard enough to drop buff or elephant on the spot and recoil is very manageable..

I also agree, when it comes to Buff, the 375H&H would certainly NOT be my first or even second.. It will certainly get the job done, but NOT like a .416..not even close.. 375H&H makes a great all around gun for PG and if you bump into something that wants to eat/kill you while doing so..

My experience anyway..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (23/01/22 03:33 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #360931 - 23/01/22 05:40 AM

Quote:

No hum. His comments are not even correct eg uses 100 year old .404 ballistics.




People do that when talking about the .45/70's potential, too.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: DarylS]
      #360937 - 23/01/22 09:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

No hum. His comments are not even correct eg uses 100 year old .404 ballistics.




People do that when talking about the .45/70's potential, too.




Exactly..see that all the time...

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crshelton
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #360978 - 24/01/22 08:07 AM

"People do that when talking about the .45/70's potential, too "

Yes and I have set straight (exposed their lack of knowledge ) several on a couple of so called African forums. Most of them have never even heard of a 45-90, much less know what it has done and can do.

One of their claims is that it s common knowledge that lever action rifles are prone to jamming and therefore not safe for use on DG. Maybe in the hands of fools, but what rifle is safe in such hands?

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eagle27
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #360982 - 24/01/22 04:12 PM

Quote:

No hum. His comments are not even correct eg uses 100 year old .404 ballistics.




Yes he does but 10 years ago from when he wrote the article and used the 404 in Africa, the ammo would have been modern stuff I imagine. Note the ballistics of the Swift 404 ammo shown in the article has a MV of 2357fps and an energy of just under 5000ftlbs, that's up there with the best of them. Apart from the modern Kynoch ammo which still publishes the MV as 2125fps all other 404 ammo is loaded a good cut above that.
My 'old' Kynoch ammo from the 60's is the uprated stuff at 2225fps and likewise the Norma made Parker Hale 404 ammo I have was loaded to a MV of 2245fps. RWS has always been around 2300fps.

He may not have known what the velocity of the 404 was when he wrote his article and just took data from Wikipedia or some such source which of course is old hat out of date information as far as the 404 is concerned.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: DarylS]
      #360984 - 24/01/22 05:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

No hum. His comments are not even correct eg uses 100 year old .404 ballistics.




People do that when talking about the .45/70's potential, too.




The slower it is shot at, the more effective it is. I have read that many times so it must be true.

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #361013 - 25/01/22 05:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

No hum. His comments are not even correct eg uses 100 year old .404 ballistics.




People do that when talking about the .45/70's potential, too.




The slower it is shot at, the more effective it is. I have read that many times so it must be true.






Has to be---especially if you read it on Farecebook..OH, wait, your couldn't have.. your in FB jail..

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Postman
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #361027 - 25/01/22 12:58 PM

My pinky and ring finger always goes numb when I’m “packing the pork”.

It’s a possible primer article for newbies buying their first .22 and dreaming of bunny hunting, albeit kinda silly for anyone who’s been there and dun that.

We all gotta start somewhere. My interest was sparked reading a Capstick article that ran in Guns & Ammo Magazine when I was 13 years old or so. I knew I wanted to hunt Africa from that article onwards.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #361041 - 25/01/22 04:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



People do that when talking about the .45/70's potential, too.




The slower it is shot at, the more effective it is. I have read that many times so it must be true.






Has to be---especially if you read it on Farecebook..OH, wait, your couldn't have.. your in FB jail..




It was on aaaaaarrrrrrrrrr years ago. When seedy had trolls keeping his activity levels being stimulated with bs.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Postman]
      #361043 - 25/01/22 05:10 PM

Quote:



It’s a possible primer article for newbies buying their first .22 and dreaming of bunny hunting, albeit kinda silly for anyone who’s been there and dun that.

We all gotta start somewhere. My interest was sparked reading a Capstick article that ran in Guns & Ammo Magazine when I was 13 years old or so. I knew I wanted to hunt Africa from that article onwards.




Jim Corbett was one of my inspirations and his maneater stories.

A couple of Aussie writers including Col Allison. I remember wanting a nitro express double rifle since he wrote about buying a .450/400 dr. And hunting buffalo and elephant with it. I am sure I was already booked on the safari but well before then. I remember articles mentioning using their .375 rifles on lots of pigs or goats as practice pre safari. The days when one could shoot 200 or 300 pigs easily for fun on a trip.

A movie or two. "Out of Africa". Including the anti hunter pulp Tarzan movies. One day I realised hunting was fun and decided the Tarzan anti hunting propaganda was bs.

I wonder how many people never learn to think for themselves and think outside the propaganda narrative. I was probably eight years old at the time.

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John aka NitroX

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DarylS
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #361049 - 25/01/22 05:35 PM

As kids, watching Walt Disney, my bro and I fantasized hunting all the animals on the show.
The anti-gun carp, didn't even register.
Wild Kingdom was another.

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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Postman]
      #361388 - 01/02/22 06:21 AM

Quote:

My pinky and ring finger always goes numb when I’m “packing the pork”.

It’s a possible primer article for newbies buying their first .22 and dreaming of bunny hunting, albeit kinda silly for anyone who’s been there and dun that.

We all gotta start somewhere. My interest was sparked reading a Capstick article that ran in Guns & Ammo Magazine when I was 13 years old or so. I knew I wanted to hunt Africa from that article onwards.




DEATH IN THE TALL GRASS... Was my starter --was all down hill from there.. Always dreamed of it.. but wasn't sure it would happen.. lots of hours at the salt mine.. made it a few times more than I thought..AND still reading about it..

Read all of J.A. Hunters books.. enjoyed them..along with dozens of others...

Have moved on a bit however..now looking at another sheep or ibex hunt..if the world ever comes back to pre-covid days...

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (01/02/22 06:22 AM)


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #361393 - 01/02/22 10:11 AM

I watched all the outdoor wildlife shows as a kid, all the Walt Disney ones, Tarzan, Daktari, Grizzly Adams etc. which were all very anti-hunting and regularly made mention of how bad hunters are and how all the problems of the wild is caused by hunting and it did the exact opposite for me, it made me want to go hunting and fishing more than ever. None of my family were into hunting and fishing, dad had done a little bit mainly fishing but we spent a lot of time in the bush. Spending time in the bush together with those shows and watching Westerns is what made me determined to start as soon as I realistically could. Later on it was also the interest in butchering and cooking that made me even more keen.

I am sure that some kids would have been turned against hunting but I bet more were spurred on to take it up by those shows. At least in those days, it would be different today I suspect.

Matt.

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260rem
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #361394 - 01/02/22 11:40 AM

Ah Disney, so anti hunting, yet so master race.

Old Walt was a complicated fellow.


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szihn
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: 260rem]
      #361397 - 01/02/22 12:49 PM

"Dangerous game" is a term thrown around that has come to mean something a bit more specific then what the definitions of those 2 words would convey if you look them up in a dictionary.

Here in Wyoming the 2 animals we have that can be most dangerous are the 2 species of bears, the Black and the Grizzly. If we look at statistics it's mathematically proven the black bear is more likely to maul you, but the grizzly is more likely to kill you if you get mauled.

We also have cow moose with calves, and mountain lions as well as wolves. Statistically of those 3 the one that has hurt and killed the most people is the moose, and the lions and wolves are not even close.

So what does the word "dangerous" really mean?

Next I would point out that any animal (other then the 2 legged types) is not dangerous until it can touch you, so in some cases a cow moose in thick alders is WAY more dangerous then elephant in semi-open scrub. Not because of the animals, but because of the fact that in places here in the mountains you may not see the moose before it's within 10 feet of you.
Is the moose more likely to come at you then the elephant? Probably.

But the elephant is more likely to kill you if it does.

So....which is more "dangerous"?

Now, if I knew I was going to be pushing alders aside just to walk, and I had a high probability of running into Miss Moose and I had a choice of my 404 Jeffery or my M1 Garand I'd probably take the M1. I keep it loaded with 220 grain RN ammo and it's been 100% reliable in the 40 years I have owned it and used it.

But the old 30-06 is not even considered as a "dangerous game round" by most.

Yet the ability to strike with one to eight 30-06 rounds and have no problem with recoil and recovery time makes me believe that at near bayonet distance the battle worthy M1 would be a better tool then a bolt action 404. And I am also sure the 404 would be to be fine, but perhaps just not AS good as the M1 in that particular situation.

In the real world, those with a lot of hunting experience understand that such articles are written not so much as guidelines to new hunters as they are to fill pages.

There is nothing at all wrong with the choices he picked, but the most important thing in any life or death encounter is the MAN.

Just as a side note: I usually carry one of my 9.3s, my 375H&H or my 404, but I feel the ability to make good, fast, accurate hits is more important then the cartridge case. I feel very well armed with my AR10 in 358 or my old M1 in 30-06.

I'd discuss BULLETS for dangerous situations and believe some value and/or merit was being passed along,...... but discussions of cartridges is over emphasized, especially when someone says what is "best".

Edited by szihn (01/02/22 12:54 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: szihn]
      #361398 - 01/02/22 01:35 PM

Quote:



So what does the word "dangerous" really mean?

Next I would point out that any animal (other then the 2 legged types) is not dangerous until it can touch you, so in some cases a cow moose in thick alders is WAY more dangerous then elephant in semi-open scrub. Not because of the animals, but because of the fact that in places here in the mountains you may not see the moose before it's within 10 feet of you.
Is the moose more likely to come at you then the elephant? Probably.

But the elephant is more likely to kill you if it does.

So....which is more "dangerous"?




Easy answer is the elephant by a huge margin. Moose do not even rate in comparison.

It is very easy to be close to elephant and not even be aware of them.

Having acleak against a bush I heard a noise behind me. An elephant was looking over the bush behind trunk sniffing the air. I retreated.

Camping. The herd of elephants watched us unaware from the bush. The elephants came straight into camp to look for choice food as soon as they thought no one was left by the fire and everyone was in bed. Two of my companions had stayed sitting up in the shadows however unseen. Btw these elephants walked a metre past my head lying down in a tent. Very wuiet, only the sand sssssshhhhhing as it was compacted under their broad pads.

A different time. At night, hear a crack in the bush, an elephant feeding metres away.

During daylight they can fade away in the bush.

Stories talk about hunters almost bumping into the rears of stopped elephants they are following. If that elephant was facing the other way around, no story probably.

Immense strength and size. Demolish a vehicle readily. And capable of fine work too. Pull every limb off a man one by one. Or stomp him into mincemeat. Aggressive. Kill a great many people. Not a Disney animal.


The "5cartridges" stuff is a toolkit question. Depends on the circumstances.

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (01/02/22 01:37 PM)


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szihn
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #361410 - 02/02/22 02:39 AM

I am very aware of all that John. I spend 11 months in three African countries many years ago and I was in an among elephants dozens of times. But in most cases if the elephants got wind of us they moved off quickly.
No so a cow moose if it has a calf. The don't run from you if you surprise them very often.
And as I said (go back and read) if either of them turn on a hunter or hiker the result is far more likely the elephant will kill the man then the moose. But in my experience (near a year in Africa and 50+ years in the western Rocky's) the moose is the one that is a LOT more likely to attack.

In the last 30 years I have run into 4 grizzlies at under 15 feet when out in the mountains and all of them ran. But I have had to dodge 5 moose. One of which was VERY intent on trying to stomp me. I never had to dodge an elephant, even though I was within 7-10 yards of them, probably 10 times.

This in no way would qualify me as an "expert" on the comparison, but that's not the reason for the post I made.

The reason for my post it to bring a bit of light on what is called "dangerous game" because that was how the article was addressed, and also to bring some thought on the "best" cartridge for use when in danger. The "best" one is the one that saves you if you have to shoot to stay alive.

I don't give a lot of weight to "the best" cartridge but I do give consideration to the use of a firearm and what bullets I'd prefer. The cartridges I have depended on the most for VERY dangerous situations in my life (from about 20 years old until about 35 years old) were not anything special. 7.62 NATO and 45 ACP, and in 2 cases a 41 magnum.

In my 11 months in Africa I used a Mauser quite a few times chambered in 404 Jeffery. Ammo was some old Kynoch, but more RWS stuff made in the 70s. Never had any problems with either one, but the British ammo was loaded about 200 FPS slower then the German ammo if I recall correctly.

I never had ANY opportunity to use other guns or cartridges at all, and I never felt any deficiency at all either. So if I would have had a bunch of guns to choose from I doubt I would have changed. I never saw anything wrong what what I had.

Edited by szihn (02/02/22 02:41 AM)


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Lee440
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: szihn]
      #361416 - 02/02/22 04:21 AM

The article might have been slightly more relevant if he had written it as the six Double Rifle cartridges and the six Bolt Rifle cartridges. I would bet that less than 5% of hunters going after DG in Africa are using Doubles.

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DarylS
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Lee440]
      #361419 - 02/02/22 04:42 AM

Quote:

The article might have been slightly more relevant if he had written it as the six Double Rifle cartridges and the six Bolt Rifle cartridges. I would bet that less than 5% of hunters going after DG in Africa are using Doubles.




Sounds legitimate.

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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: szihn]
      #361439 - 02/02/22 04:18 PM

Quote:

I am very aware of all that John. I spend 11 months in three African countries many years ago and I was in an among elephants dozens of times. But in most cases if the elephants got wind of us they moved off quickly.
No so a cow moose if it has a calf. The don't run from you if you surprise them very often.
And as I said (go back and read) if either of them turn on a hunter or hiker the result is far more likely the elephant will kill the man then the moose. But in my experience (near a year in Africa and 50+ years in the western Rocky's) the moose is the one that is a LOT more likely to attack.

In the last 30 years I have run into 4 grizzlies at under 15 feet when out in the mountains and all of them ran. But I have had to dodge 5 moose. One of which was VERY intent on trying to stomp me. I never had to dodge an elephant, even though I was within 7-10 yards of them, probably 10 times.

This in no way would qualify me as an "expert" on the comparison, but that's not the reason for the post I made.

The reason for my post it to bring a bit of light on what is called "dangerous game" because that was how the article was addressed, and also to bring some thought on the "best" cartridge for use when in danger. The "best" one is the one that saves you if you have to shoot to stay alive.

I don't give a lot of weight to "the best" cartridge but I do give consideration to the use of a firearm and what bullets I'd prefer. The cartridges I have depended on the most for VERY dangerous situations in my life (from about 20 years old until about 35 years old) were not anything special. 7.62 NATO and 45 ACP, and in 2 cases a 41 magnum.

In my 11 months in Africa I used a Mauser quite a few times chambered in 404 Jeffery. Ammo was some old Kynoch, but more RWS stuff made in the 70s. Never had any problems with either one, but the British ammo was loaded about 200 FPS slower then the German ammo if I recall correctly.

I never had ANY opportunity to use other guns or cartridges at all, and I never felt any deficiency at all either. So if I would have had a bunch of guns to choose from I doubt I would have changed. I never saw anything wrong what what I had.





My experiences with elephant have been different than yours Steve. I believe one of the biggest reasons is all the poaching going on in the area.. the elephants see man and are pissed. The last time I hunted with the late Ian Gibson (who was killed by an elephant BTW) we were hunting tuskless. We came into a small herd that, once they saw us, instantly became very agitated.. they ran towards us to within 40 to 50 yards, perhaps a bit more, grabbing small trees out of the ground and throwing them at us with their trunks.. I know, I know, the weren't "touching" us, but, had we made a play on them, Ian figured we would have had to take out the entire herd to get back out of there alive..

Same trip, hiking into a hyena blind one morning in the dark..Tuskless cow charged us out of the brush..we both flipped on our flashlights and backed up with our rifles pointed at her head..yelling and shouting until she finally stopped at 8 yards..

Same trip, hiking , we came across a younger elephant bull..he turned and started walking very briskly our direction.. we started to split up and run.. he also started to move faster after us.. after about 100 yards or so, Ian and I stopped..he as still coming and getting closer.. we took off again.. ran ..stopped and turned around.. still coming and even closer..we finally shot..which stopped him.. he paused for a bit..turned and finally walked away..

Same trip.. had a younger bull come at our vehicle one morning .. we sped up and so did he.. we sped up even more and so did he.. we was very close before we finally out ran him by picking up the speed..

I too have run into bears... black and grizzly as well as moose..bulls and cows.. fully agree with you, cow moose can be VERY aggressive.. fortunately I have never been charged by one, however my father in law played ring around the rosie with a cow one day for about 10 minutes...chasing him around a tree..he finally pulled a 44 and fired a shot over her head.. he stopped and walked away.. as he was walking from the tree, she turned and saw him walking from the protection of the tree..she gave chase again.. and did the same thing for another 5 minutes or so..he again fired another shot ..this time she turned and trotted off.. WE were in camp wondering what he was shooting at..

Bottom line..they both are and can be very dangerous.. having said that, my most hair raising experiences have been with elephant.. I have had 3 individuals I have either hunted with or had met that have all killed by elephant.. I have 0 individuals who have died from moose..

Agree, articles that say "best" of anything automatically are a turn off.. best is as you stated, the one in your hands at the time you needed it..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #361445 - 02/02/22 08:16 PM

Elephant can be different due to hunting or poaching pressure.

Some of the stories I mentioned came from Ambroselli. A park. Elephant there relatively unharrassed. And more so used to humans. Also Addo. One bull in Addo was in must. Every bull seems to be leaking in the Zambezi Valley ...

One elephant in Zambia on the Zambezi the camp PH said must be insane. He or she loved to hunt humans, playing cat and mouse with them among the buildings. They wondered what would result if it ever caught someone.

A big factor on dangerousness is moose are relatively easy to kill. Elephant far less so. Yes brain shots shop them well. I've never had to do one on a charging ele.

Back to calm Addo. I remember our vehicle was chased by an angry elephant running after he for a long distance on the road/track.

I also remember how annoyed I was when the little scaredy cat tourists demanded we drive a lot faster to "get away" destroying my video opportunity. I am thoroughly sick of pathetic people on tourist safaris either being scared of the big mean buffalo and wanting to get away from them, dive faster, get away, or screaming with sudden delight everytime they see animals close causing the previously undisturbed beasts to run away and cause more arse photographs ...

Hopefully the vaxes can fill the herds ....

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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #361446 - 02/02/22 08:53 PM

About these sorts of articles. They are bread and butter for forums and social media to argue and pontificate about. I am sure some authors write seriously. But if they were a tv advert they would have an actor with an annoying voice. For attention and remembrance.

Always different newbies vs experienced persons reading. Many articles are good value for a newbie sponge.

NE scares a lot of newcomers. So much knowledge and experience among our members it is amazing.

I saw another thread on Farcebook, "which is better, .30-06 0r a .300 mag?". A big advance on "which is better, a .308 or a .30-06?"

So really, it is a huge improvement, should a .404 or a .416 or a .375 should be included on a dangerous game rifle list. Btw my answer is yes, all three absolutely.

(PS I said that last paragraph in a squeaky annoyingly remembers or high pitched voice. )

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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #361449 - 02/02/22 10:30 PM

Moose and Elg attacks for Steve!

https://fb.watch/aW96EpI9WW/

--------------------
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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #361451 - 03/02/22 03:13 AM

Quote:

Moose and Elg attacks for Steve!

https://fb.watch/aW96EpI9WW/




I watched in horror a few years back as an elderly gentleman (my age) ..actually he looked to be in late 70's early 80's.. fell outside a post office in Alaska.. a moose was outside.. the moose stomped him to death.. felt absolutely horrible for that old guy...

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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #361453 - 03/02/22 03:20 AM

Quote:

About these sorts of articles. They are bread and butter for forums and social media to argue and pontificate about. I am sure some authors write seriously. But if they were a tv advert they would have an actor with an annoying voice. For attention and remembrance.

Always different newbies vs experienced persons reading. Many articles are good value for a newbie sponge.

NE scares a lot of newcomers. So much knowledge and experience among our members it is amazing.

I saw another thread on Farcebook, "which is better, .30-06 0r a .300 mag?". A big advance on "which is better, a .308 or a .30-06?"

So really, it is a huge improvement, should a .404 or a .416 or a .375 should be included on a dangerous game rifle list. Btw my answer is yes, all three absolutely.

(PS I said that last paragraph in a squeaky annoyingly remembers or high pitched voice. )




I read and usually don't respond to a lot of what I see/read on Farcebook.. However there are times its so blatantly wrong I cant help myself and responds.. makes me chuckle when you hit them with a few facts they cant respond to.. Last week a guy was giving his opinion on caliber and bullet type for hunting elk.. I responded asking him how many elk he had taken and if he had any photos of them..Shocker I know, he responded saying he had never actually taken an elk, all he had stated was from articles he had read.. Imagine that.,,,

--------------------
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #361454 - 03/02/22 03:48 AM

Quote:

Elephant can be different due to hunting or poaching pressure.

Some of the stories I mentioned came from Ambroselli. A park. Elephant there relatively unharrassed. And more so used to humans. Also Addo. One bull in Addo was in must. Every bull seems to be leaking in the Zambezi Valley ...

One elephant in Zambia on the Zambezi the camp PH said must be insane. He or she loved to hunt humans, playing cat and mouse with them among the buildings. They wondered what would result if it ever caught someone.

A big factor on dangerousness is moose are relatively easy to kill. Elephant far less so. Yes brain shots shop them well. I've never had to do one on a charging ele.

Back to calm Addo. I remember our vehicle was chased by an angry elephant running after he for a long distance on the road/track.

I also remember how annoyed I was when the little scaredy cat tourists demanded we drive a lot faster to "get away" destroying my video opportunity. I am thoroughly sick of pathetic people on tourist safaris either being scared of the big mean buffalo and wanting to get away from them, dive faster, get away, or screaming with sudden delight everytime they see animals close causing the previously undisturbed beasts to run away and cause more arse photographs ...

Hopefully the vaxes can fill the herds ....




Why is that about the Zambezi bulls?? I noticed the same thing.. they were all leaking it seemed..

The tuskless I shot was a brain shot at 16 yards with Ian.... he cautioned us to remain totally still after the shot to stay hidden from the others.. stated if they spotted us we most likely would have to shoot our way out of it.. Actually was one of the most fun hunts of my lifetime.. more exciting than buffalo and lion honestly..

--------------------
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #361469 - 03/02/22 06:06 PM

Quote:



Why is that about the Zambezi bulls?? I noticed the same thing.. they were all leaking it seemed..

The tuskless I shot was a brain shot at 16 yards with Ian.... he cautioned us to remain totally still after the shot to stay hidden from the others.. stated if they spotted us we most likely would have to shoot our way out of it.. Actually was one of the most fun hunts of my lifetime.. more exciting than buffalo and lion honestly..




Not just bulls. The cow herds are very aggressive and dangerous. Especially when one was shot. The herd does not necessarily flee. They protect the downed cow. They came at us at least six times. But never the last few metres. The PH said finally that someone was going to get killed and decided we would come back the next morning. He warned local villagers to stay away as well.

Why are they aggressive?

It's simple. Massive human encroachment. They constantly have humans interfering with them. Too many elephant. Too many people. People entering the parks to cut grass and thatch. Cutting firewood. Collecting food and poaching with snares and other weapons. Even Dhanbad/farming in the parks. And the parks are artificial boundaries anyway. Elephants feed and raid outside the parks regularly.

The must on every bull is evidence the elephants are in constant combat mode.

For me, for elephant the best would be a .577 NE, a .500 NE, or a .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs. Thumping knockdown power if a brain is missed on a charging beast. Hopefully knock down power!

Next my own level, a .450 NE, and all the equivalent NEs. The bolt versions such as the .450 Lott, Rigby etc.

Then the .400s to .425. Rimmed or bolt rimless.

Each of these are a big step down, .577 to .500s, to .450s, to .400s. Getting lesser each step. Lastly the .375s and 9.3s.Compromise in between DG and medium game. In experienced hands will do the job. In newbie hands may not cause flinching.

There is good reasons those big brown bears are often hunted with .375s and .416s. I have never hunted bear so am quoting from what others have said!

But I have always thought a .338 a good choice for North America as a compromise. Just like the .318 WR (.330) was good for Africa.Heavy 250 gr has a high SD and penetration. Not necessarily needed for medium game. But handy. A .330/.338 and a .450 makes an excellent combination. As both Bell and ? (I forget ATM) advised.

There is a difference between dangerous game and game that can become dangerous. Elephant IS dangerous game. Buffalo is DG. Brown Bear is DG. Moose, sable. Bushbuck. etc can become dangerous in the right circumstances. Per reports. Same with elephant, buffalo etc. Often run away. Usually do. Other times don't.

I need lots more experience hunting them all!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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chuck375
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Lee440]
      #365081 - 30/04/22 09:46 AM

What a ridiculous list. Where's the 500 Jeffery and the 505 Gibbs. Really!

--------------------
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Lee440]
      #365083 - 30/04/22 12:17 PM

I think this article came by at least once before and it is still much ado about nothing for any experienced hunter.

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Ripp
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #365085 - 30/04/22 12:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Why is that about the Zambezi bulls?? I noticed the same thing.. they were all leaking it seemed..

The tuskless I shot was a brain shot at 16 yards with Ian.... he cautioned us to remain totally still after the shot to stay hidden from the others.. stated if they spotted us we most likely would have to shoot our way out of it.. Actually was one of the most fun hunts of my lifetime.. more exciting than buffalo and lion honestly..




Not just bulls. The cow herds are very aggressive and dangerous. Especially when one was shot. The herd does not necessarily flee. They protect the downed cow. They came at us at least six times. But never the last few metres. The PH said finally that someone was going to get killed and decided we would come back the next morning. He warned local villagers to stay away as well.

Why are they aggressive?

It's simple. Massive human encroachment. They constantly have humans interfering with them. Too many elephant. Too many people. People entering the parks to cut grass and thatch. Cutting firewood. Collecting food and poaching with snares and other weapons. Even Dhanbad/farming in the parks. And the parks are artificial boundaries anyway. Elephants feed and raid outside the parks regularly.

The must on every bull is evidence the elephants are in constant combat mode.

For me, for elephant the best would be a .577 NE, a .500 NE, or a .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs. Thumping knockdown power if a brain is missed on a charging beast. Hopefully knock down power!

Next my own level, a .450 NE, and all the equivalent NEs. The bolt versions such as the .450 Lott, Rigby etc.

Then the .400s to .425. Rimmed or bolt rimless.

Each of these are a big step down, .577 to .500s, to .450s, to .400s. Getting lesser each step. Lastly the .375s and 9.3s.Compromise in between DG and medium game. In experienced hands will do the job. In newbie hands may not cause flinching.

There is good reasons those big brown bears are often hunted with .375s and .416s. I have never hunted bear so am quoting from what others have said!

But I have always thought a .338 a good choice for North America as a compromise. Just like the .318 WR (.330) was good for Africa.Heavy 250 gr has a high SD and penetration. Not necessarily needed for medium game. But handy. A .330/.338 and a .450 makes an excellent combination. As both Bell and ? (I forget ATM) advised.

There is a difference between dangerous game and game that can become dangerous. Elephant IS dangerous game. Buffalo is DG. Brown Bear is DG. Moose, sable. Bushbuck. etc can become dangerous in the right circumstances. Per reports. Same with elephant, buffalo etc. Often run away. Usually do. Other times don't.

I need lots more experience hunting them all!




Agree with most you have stated.. for me for elephant in a double.. would be a W/R in .577 or 500 Nitro.. perfect double..have shot them both.. incredible weapons..


And yes, the cows can be and are very dangerous in Zim.. how you described is exactly how it went down when I shot mine.. the entire group started looking for us, smelling the air.. be backed out a ways..finally they moved on.. would have gotten really interesting had a second shot be needed.


As to 338's..I have a Rem action custom in 338RUM.. have only used it on elk and now 1 bison.. Honestly I would have no issues hunting any animal in the world with that caliber and correct bullets of course..Frankly I'd choose that over a 375H&H any day for hunting the world..

Also have a 338 Lapua in Sako TRG-42..so, not very much a hunting rifle..

--------------------
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Re: The 6 Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #365097 - 30/04/22 06:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



For me, for elephant the best would be a .577 NE, a .500 NE, or a .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs. Thumping knockdown power if a brain is missed on a charging beast. Hopefully knock down power!

Next my own level, a .450 NE, and all the equivalent NEs. The bolt versions such as the .450 Lott, Rigby etc.

Then the .400s to .425. Rimmed or bolt rimless.





Agree with most you have stated.. for me for elephant in a double.. would be a W/R in .577 or 500 Nitro.. perfect double..have shot them both.. incredible weapons..




I'm going to add the .600 NE to the list. Shot one again recently.

A .577 3" NE or a .600 NE? Would have to shoot them side by side to see which I prefer. One of each? One has to have fantasies.

--------------------
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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