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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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grandveneur
.400 member


Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1278
Loc: France / Germany
Re: Moving up in size [Re: NorfolkShooter01]
      #356657 - 08/09/21 04:19 PM

Quote:

Thats right shot placement is king but if you can put a big bullet where it has to go would that not be the best of two worlds??




Sure, something like that is always better, but every hunter cannot shoot accurate big bore rifles with full load and strong recoil. Some want then to force it. Reduced charges are used first, on the grounds that it would also be sufficient, and then the various recoil-reducing devices come. None of all this is a good option. Better to use a smaller caliber that one can handle with a full load and without the help of various devices.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Moving up in size [Re: NorfolkShooter01]
      #356681 - 10/09/21 09:20 PM

Quote:

Thats right shot placement is king but if you can put a big bullet where it has to go would that not be the best of two worlds??




Correct.

If one misses the charging elephants brain with a minimal degree one is probably killed. Missing by the same amount with a 500 the elephant is probably flattened.

Irrespective on how "quick A PH says one calibre kills with a brain shot vs another also with a brain shot.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
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Re: Moving up in size [Re: grandveneur]
      #356682 - 10/09/21 09:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thats right shot placement is king but if you can put a big bullet where it has to go would that not be the best of two worlds??




Sure, something like that is always better, but every hunter cannot shoot accurate big bore rifles with full load and strong recoil. Some want then to force it. Reduced charges are used first, on the grounds that it would also be sufficient, and then the various recoil-reducing devices come. None of all this is a good option. Better to use a smaller caliber that one can handle with a full load and without the help of various devices.




Also true. No good comes from using a firearm if one is flinching.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Moving up in size [Re: NitroX]
      #356702 - 11/09/21 07:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thats right shot placement is king but if you can put a big bullet where it has to go would that not be the best of two worlds??




Correct.

If one misses the charging elephants brain with a minimal degree one is probably killed. Missing by the same amount with a 500 the elephant is probably flattened.

Irrespective on how "quick A PH says one calibre kills with a brain shot vs another also with a brain shot.




John I think you need to go and re read my post as it is clear you have taken it totally incorrectly. That comment from my PH would have been made regardless of calibre. He did not say it was because of the calibre but shot placement and the Hydro. The fact was the elephant dropped quick which belies the general boast that a bigger calibre is always better. The fact I was using a 416 Rigby was good in that it is about my recoil tolerance, a larger calibre would most likely have resulted in a wounded animal, not a dead one. World of difference I am suspecting you do not understand going by your thinly veiled extremely sarcastic replies clearly directed at me.

So a person using a 500 that is too much gun for them will most likely miss a killing, even a stopping/turning shot. So how is that a good thing???

Yes if a person can put a larger/more powerful projectile where it needs to be then yes it should be better. Even a near miss with a larger calibre may not put the animal down it may or may not stun it/turn it. If it does slow the animal in any way and the more powerful the calibre the better the chance, it gives the hunter more time to get a second shot in. I would think this to be fairly obvious.


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Moving up in size [Re: NorfolkShooter01]
      #356703 - 11/09/21 07:31 PM

Quote:

Thats right shot placement is king but if you can put a big bullet where it has to go would that not be the best of two worlds??




Too right it would be.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Moving up in size [Re: Rule303]
      #356707 - 11/09/21 11:27 PM

I'm just making the point, again, an elephant will drop just as fast with a brain shot irrespective of whether it is with a 275, 375 416 450 500 or 600.

My only experience is with a 450 NE. Both elephants collapsed also instantly from the one FMJ each. Yes we did shoot each at least once again. One, several times as the PH was not sure if he thought it was just stunned or not. Neither was, both died instantly with the first bullet.

As for the 500 vs lesser calibre it is again not my opinion nor do I have the experience myself. I have been told many times by people with great experience whose opinion I respect. That the 500 NE is a substantial jump over the 450, which is a jump over the 416 etc etc.

A less than perfect shot is when differences are more important especially as calibres shrink.

Obviously similar for buffalo.

An experienced PH told me for wounded lion he liked a 500 or 577 or similar, A-square bolt action, or whatever those are called, it was for wounded lion follow up. Because it just dropped them so quickly.No personal experience on shooting lions at all. Just live one's circling in the dark.

As for recoil of course. One needs to be able the recoil of whatever one is using. That is assumed. I haven't been worrying about unknown people's tolerance for recoil.

I am pretty much repeating the same in each post again and again. If any one is getting irked that it is somehow personal that's in their head not mine. No need to imagine arguments.

The thread opener is interested in a 500, why not? Lots of members have500s, 577s and what not. If they want I say go for it. I've wanted a 500 NE DR. Even more a 577 NE DR.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Moving up in size [Re: NitroX]
      #356709 - 12/09/21 12:41 AM

Rule303, just to reiterate bait think you are reading into my posts what isn't there. I may be disagreeing with you on some points though.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Moving up in size [Re: NitroX]
      #356714 - 12/09/21 05:43 AM

What I take away from the age old discussion of bore size vs killing power is: As long as the bullet chosen will penetrate far enough then it will kill.
Now if a heart/lung shot? A small hole will certainly not let blood out and cold air in as quickly as a bigger hole.
A hit to spine? Surely….
An Elephant brain shot? Yes. Bell and others proved that “small bores” will kill just as instantly when the brain is hit. One just has to possess the knowledge of anatomy and the precise skill to absolutely place the bullet.

The issue is; what happens when the brain is missed by a tiny bit or maybe some inches. The smaller bore is going to do nothing much while a larger bore is said to stun for seconds or sometimes many minutes depending upon the size and weight of the bullet. Where is the dividing line? Beats me…..

I would figure that a larger bore against an Elephant is “insurance” against the possibility of a less than perfectly placed brain shot?
.450, .470, .500, .577 from having read the accounts the bigger the bullet, the slightly more room for error. That being said, one has to be able to accurately shoot the chosen rifle otherwise it is all for naught.

Choose the rifle/cartridge that you can accurately use then respect it’s & your limitations

Have I, or will it be likely that I will shoot an Elephant? ….No.
Do I like my .470, 500, & .577? …..Yes. For me they are interesting playthings and lunatic overkill on groundhogs, deer/Elk, or pigs.

-Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2363
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Moving up in size [Re: 3DogMike]
      #356757 - 14/09/21 10:16 PM

Like I said at the start. None of these 500's are hard or difficult to shoot providing the stock fits correctly in all areas, has enough weight and is nicely balanced. Having enough weight may not make the gun as comfortable to carry for long periods but it will make the gun comfortable to shoot.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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