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Ithaca375
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Reged: 09/08/19
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
500 Jeffery
      #353959 - 02/06/21 12:57 PM

Hey guys. Just grabbed a chamber reamer for 500 jeffery.
Looking forward to this build, a friend directed me to your wonderful forum.
Building on an Arisaka, which is going to be a new experience. I've built all my previous big bores on either the Mosin, AR, or AK platforms, mostly 375 H&H and it's derivatives.
This is my first try using a rebated rim cartridge too.
I'm a machinist by trade though, so I figure I can make a single stack magazine like Westley Richards used to make the 425 WR work in mauser rifles, since it was also a rebated rim.
Main issue right now is finding brass. I've had horrible experience with RCC in the past, and Norma seems to be out of stock everywhere.
Once I get a few, I'll load up some dummy rounds and start making the mag and inletting the receiver and bolt face. Super excited.
any advice?


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tinker
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #353960 - 02/06/21 01:09 PM

Midway has ammunition

https://www.midwayusa.com/500-jeffery/br?cid=20436

It's in stock elsewhere too


The 500 Jeffery is a completely different animal than anything that you've put through any of the rifles you mentioned.
Whole different world.

Go and shoot a real big bore rifle.
Shoot as many as you can before you start in on your stock design.

That's my first bit of advice.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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grandveneur
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: tinker]
      #353962 - 02/06/21 04:17 PM

I would agree with that too.

I own an rifle of this caliber and shot amongst other things some elephants with it. It's a very good cartridge for this purpose.

Nevertheless, I would also warn about the recoil of rifles of this caliber. Many rifles of the caliber 500 Jeffery are sold again on a regular basis in our countries so it cannot be excluded that some people have problems with the recoil of this rifles.

Reduced loads or a lot of systems to reduce the recoil are not a good solution for an traditional big game rifle.

The recoil with regular non reduced loads is very strong, but anyone who is familiar with the recoil of rifles such as caliber 460 WBY-Magnum will not have any problems with that.

Edited by grandveneur (02/06/21 04:21 PM)


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93x64mm
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #353964 - 02/06/21 10:16 PM

Ithaca375
I'm not familiar with Nosler brass, but Norma brass is very good quality, I'd try that first if possible.
You wouldn't think that the Arisaka action would be long enough to shoehorn in that big Jeffery round, but hey mate if you can then you will certainly be a first from what I know of if you do! This action is extremely simple to field strip (only 5 parts from memory?) & extremely tough if you have a good donor action, even P.O. Ackley couldn't blown the darn things up!
Have to agree with Tinker & Grandveneur, this cartridge is a thumper - on both ends!
Best of luck mate, hopefully you'll be able to post your progress as you go.
Looking forward to the next instalment.
Cheers


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3DogMike
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: tinker]
      #353970 - 03/06/21 01:31 AM

Quote:

Midway has ammunition

https://www.midwayusa.com/500-jeffery/br?cid=20436

It's in stock elsewhere too


The 500 Jeffery is a completely different animal than anything that you've put through any of the rifles you mentioned.
Whole different world.

Go and shoot a real big bore rifle.
Shoot as many as you can before you start in on your stock design.

That's my first bit of advice.



+1

The full power cartridge (I have a .500 AHR, an "evolution" of the .500 Jeffery) is an attention getter on both ends.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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xausa
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 3DogMike]
      #353972 - 03/06/21 04:03 AM

Here's how Lon Paul built my .500 Jeffery for me, using a BRNO 602 action and a CZ 550 stock:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/e...zps247361b4.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/e...zps9cfb8b02.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/e...zpsa0cc4310.jpg


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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: tinker]
      #353977 - 03/06/21 10:25 AM

So I have actually fired a fairly similar cartridge before, a 500 A square back when that was still a thing. The recoil was definitely obnoxious, but still manageable. Looking at the ballistics, I'm guessing the 500 jeffery has similar recoil, from a similar sized rifle (planning for a weight of 12 to 15 lbs., as I'm going to be using for hog hunting from the back of a truck, it doesn't need to be light.) I figure I'll use this mostly for hunting, it probably isn't going to saturday range trips or 3 gun competitions.

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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 93x64mm]
      #353979 - 03/06/21 10:37 AM

As far as fitting the round in an Arisaka action, you are mostly correct. It will not fit a stock arisaka action. But,it only needs about 1/4" of milling lengthwise to fit a round through the bottom, checked with some borrowed ammo. The fun part will be deciding whether to shorten the ejector, or move the whole assembly backwards. It doesn't need to go far, but it does need to move.
I will also need to open the bolt face, but I don't think that will be a problem.
As to the strength of the action, Ackley's notes were what actually inspired this. I had originally bought the reamer to build another mosin, but saw the tests on the Arisakas and decided to pick up a T99 action for the project instead.


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3DogMike
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #353980 - 03/06/21 12:11 PM

Hogs......yep, this one outta do the job!
Even with light for calibre bullets like the Barnes originals to up the speed, explosive expansion, and somewhat less recoil.
Yee Haw
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 3DogMike]
      #353981 - 03/06/21 01:23 PM

Yep. I was actually planning to handload with CEB's Safari Raptor bullets. I've used their bullets in a handful of other calibers (mostly 375 and 458), and always found good accuracy and wonderful effect on game, although admittedly that last part would likely apply to anything fired from a 500 Jeffery. I've also considered turning my own bullets from C360 brass, which I've used in the past to make very short and light bullets for the 375, just for giggles.

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500Boswell
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #353995 - 03/06/21 07:11 PM

I had a plan to build a 500 jeff on a Type 38 about 15 years ago, but never got to it ,building one on a Mark X 98 at the moment. Its been at the gunsmith for 6 Months................

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500Boswell
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 500Boswell]
      #353996 - 03/06/21 07:12 PM

What was your horrible ''experience'' with RCC ?

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500Boswell
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 500Boswell]
      #354013 - 04/06/21 07:32 AM

Tried ordering brass from him through importer evidently he's not answering emails etc

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3DogMike
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 500Boswell]
      #354018 - 04/06/21 11:07 AM

Quote:

Tried ordering brass from him through importer evidently he's not answering emails etc



Hmmmm…..I have done business twice with them with good results. (Bore rifle brass cases)
Perhaps worth a (back side of the clock for you) phone call to get info straight from the source.

…….
Not that “importers” or “middlemen” can off times be less than helpful?
RCC has treated me well and IMO are good people…..
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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500Boswell
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 3DogMike]
      #354019 - 04/06/21 11:24 AM

Maybe he's flat out with orders etc

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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 500Boswell]
      #354020 - 04/06/21 01:04 PM

Hey, that's awesome to see I'm not the only guy that's trying to do this. I had talked to a few local gunsmiths to get advice on the conversion, turns out none of them even knew what the cartridge was. Good to find a place where I can talk to people that don't look at me like I'm crazy.

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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 500Boswell]
      #354021 - 04/06/21 01:15 PM

Bought some RCC 425 WR brass for a friend's retirement. Loaded with some nice bullets. About a third of them split on the first firing. Not just the neck, like halfway down the case. Wasn't my loads, wasn't the rifle. It's current owner was on his 5th reload per case with cheap australian brass last I checked.
Considering that the RCC ran me 3x what the australian brass did, I was fairly pissed, especially seeing as they were supposed to be a really nice gift for the guy.
With what their 500 Jeffery brass costs, I'm not risking it. I'll wait for norma to come back into stock, or see if my ammo guy can rustle some up.


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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #354022 - 04/06/21 01:18 PM

Actually, speaking of the brass. If anyone has some brass they'd be willing to part with, feel free to message me.

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93x64mm
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #354023 - 04/06/21 04:03 PM

Quote:

Bought some RCC 425 WR brass for a friend's retirement. Loaded with some nice bullets. About a third of them split on the first firing. Not just the neck, like halfway down the case. Wasn't my loads, wasn't the rifle. It's current owner was on his 5th reload per case with cheap australian brass last I checked.
Considering that the RCC ran me 3x what the australian brass did, I was fairly pissed, especially seeing as they were supposed to be a really nice gift for the guy.
With what their 500 Jeffery brass costs, I'm not risking it. I'll wait for norma to come back into stock, or see if my ammo guy can rustle some up.




I've never had issues with Norma, RWS, Remington, ADI or Bertram brass for that matter straight up.
Years back I split every 7mm Rem Mag brass from Winchester - like you I wasn't happy!
It can happen, so if in doubt anneal from the start, regardless from where you get you brass from!


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DarylS
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 93x64mm]
      #354035 - 05/06/21 01:18 AM

Good advice if used brass, or even old (50yr. old) new brass.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 93x64mm]
      #354058 - 05/06/21 12:39 PM

Yep. So far, I've had good experiences with all the brand's you've mentioned except ADI, which I've never tried. I probably should have annealed, but with how little these cases get worked, I didn't think it would be necessary for the first firing.
But I'll start doing that, now that I'm shooting more expensive cases.
Thanks for the tip!


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tinker
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #354059 - 05/06/21 01:14 PM

Sounds like you're a seasoned big bore pro.

Get the party started and post some photos of your rifle assembly project.
We'll be watching.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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grandveneur
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: tinker]
      #354061 - 05/06/21 04:17 PM

https://www.cartridgecollector.net/500-jeffery

For information, but I think it is known that not everything that is called 500 Jeffery is 500 Jeffery.

In reality I don't have a rifle caliber 500 jeffery but caliber 500 Schüler, Romey hybrid 1997. The rifle was built 1998 by Ritterbusch in Germany on an Mauser Magnum system.


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lancaster
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #354069 - 05/06/21 10:12 PM

imho, we talking about very little differences what were once probably production tolerances but than became a standard.

I suspect you 500 Schüler have a chamber accepting german and british made cartridges?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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grandveneur
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: lancaster]
      #354073 - 06/06/21 12:27 AM

That's right, but two cartridges are standardized nowadays according to CIP Homologation; the 500 Jeffery and the 12,7x70 Schüler.

I would be able to load both in my rifle, but if you have a new rifle caliber 500 jeffery you cannot load cartridges 12,7x70 Schüler. Years ago, Kynamco Limited and Norma temporarily no longer made the same cartridges. In the meantime everything seems to be standardized.

I hope that @Ithaca375 has a new reamer.


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3DogMike
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #354106 - 06/06/21 06:56 AM

The two are not the same these days (if they indeed ever were such).
Very informative and extensive commentary here:
http://www.cartridgecollector.net/500-jeffery

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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DarylS
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 3DogMike]
      #354112 - 06/06/21 09:12 AM

Interesting - all in the body length and shoulder angles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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casper50
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #354126 - 06/06/21 05:47 PM

I am having one built on a Sarco Mauser action right now. I had to get my brass from Australia. Bought the dies used and have just now found the Woodliegh bullets. The components seem to be the hardest part of getting this built.

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grandveneur
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: casper50]
      #354127 - 06/06/21 06:20 PM

One also have to pay attention to what you have for reloading dies.

I bought in 1999 an 500 Jeffery 3-Die Set from RCBS. After resizing, the cases look more like 12,7x70 Schüler cartridges than 500 Jeffery cartridges.


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Huvius
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #354148 - 07/06/21 11:27 AM

If I were building a rifle, I’d stick with the original Schuler spec chambering. That way, any factory ammo for the Schuler or Jeffery will chamber.
Then, neck sizing and crimping would be all that would be needed when reloading, particularly when you own only one 500 rimless.
I believe that Jeffery simply offered their rifles in the already existing 500 rimless (Schuler) rather than developing the cartridge themselves. They did, however, load it with cordite rather than German flake powder which could account for their advertised velocity and energy numbers.
A few years ago, on another forum, one member was offering cash to anyone who could prove that Kynoch or any other British munitions company actually made the 500 Jeffery loaded with cordite. He (and the rest of us) are waiting to learn whether they actually did or if the flake powder of the original was simply carried over into British production.
Nobody has produce an original loaded with cordite yet to my knowledge...

In this period advertisement, notice that Jeffery makes no mention of actually developing the 500 rimless cartridge, just building rifles for customers wanting a bolt action over a double.

https://revivaler.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/The-500-Jeffery-1-theexplora.com_.jpg

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Huvius
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Huvius]
      #354149 - 07/06/21 11:35 AM

BTW, I have an original Schuler Jumbo but think that the 500s built by Benny Laubscher are the cat’s meow if an original Jeff isn’t in the cards.
Something about his big bolt guns is just right IMO.
As an aside, I did see a genuine W.J.Jeffery built on an Arisaka action not too long ago on Gunbroker.
Wasn’t a 500 but it was a revelation to me that Jeffery had built ANY rifles on that action!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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DarylS
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Huvius]
      #354150 - 07/06/21 12:14 PM

LOL - all this talk of .50's has me thinking I need to do some more shooting with my .50/95 Model of 76.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Huvius
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: DarylS]
      #354151 - 07/06/21 12:55 PM

Quote:

LOL - all this talk of .50's has me thinking I need to do some more shooting with my .50/95 Model of 76.




I’m thinking the exact same thing of my .500s!
The Schuler, the 3” Nitro Army & Navy falling block, and my 50/110 Ruger No.1 all need to be exercised!
Not to mention four 577/500 No.2s (two 1871 Westleys, the Field, and my Turner double) as well as my Henry 500 double.
Got me to thinking that there’s not much reason to own or shoot anything under a 450!

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93x64mm
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Huvius]
      #354152 - 07/06/21 03:01 PM

Quote:

BTW, I have an original Schuler Jumbo but think that the 500s built by Benny Laubscher are the cat’s meow if an original Jeff isn’t in the cards.
Something about his big bolt guns is just right IMO.
As an aside, I did see a genuine W.J.Jeffery built on an Arisaka action not too long ago on Gunbroker.
Wasn’t a 500 but it was a revelation to me that Jeffery had built ANY rifles on that action!




Huvius
you wouldn't have a link or photos of that Arisaka action worked over by W.J.Jeffery would you?
Would make an interesting talking piece for sure!


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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: casper50]
      #354153 - 07/06/21 03:08 PM

Hey, you mind sending me the link to that brass? I still cannot find any in stock but RCC, although I'm not familiar with the australian market.
Thanks!


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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 93x64mm]
      #354154 - 07/06/21 03:09 PM

I'd be pretty interested in seeing it too! Since that's basically what I'm trying to do, some pictures would be awesome

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grandveneur
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Huvius]
      #354162 - 07/06/21 05:11 PM

Quote:

If I were building a rifle, I’d stick with the original Schuler spec chambering. That way, any factory ammo for the Schuler or Jeffery will chamber.
Then, neck sizing and crimping would be all that would be needed when reloading, particularly when you own only one 500 rimless.
I believe that Jeffery simply offered their rifles in the already existing 500 rimless (Schuler) rather than developing the cartridge themselves. They did, however, load it with cordite rather than German flake powder which could account for their advertised velocity and energy numbers.
A few years ago, on another forum, one member was offering cash to anyone who could prove that Kynoch or any other British munitions company actually made the 500 Jeffery loaded with cordite. He (and the rest of us) are waiting to learn whether they actually did or if the flake powder of the original was simply carried over into British production.
Nobody has produce an original loaded with cordite yet to my knowledge...

In this period advertisement, notice that Jeffery makes no mention of actually developing the 500 rimless cartridge, just building rifles for customers wanting a bolt action over a double.

https://revivaler.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/The-500-Jeffery-1-theexplora.com_.jpg





In the Gun Digest of 1960, the British cartridges are listed with their load.

The cartridge 500 Jeffery is given with an 535gr bullet and a load of 95gr cordite. Is of course difficult to verify whether it was true or not.


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kuduae
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #354166 - 08/06/21 01:40 AM

As everyone knows, the .500 Jeffery started out as the 12,7x70 Schüler. All known prewar “.500 Jeffery” cartridges were made in Germany by Dornheim („Gecado“). John “Pondoro” Taylor wrote: “… the Jeffery .500, the ammunition for which was only obtainable in Germany.” The metric chamber, cartridge and barrel dimensions as well as the max pressure were all published with the German 1940 proof law. The 1940 RWS handbook listed it with a 534 gr steel jacketed bullet and 108 gr Rottweil R5 smokeless powder for a mv of 2490 fps from a 27.5” barrel, pressure 3200 at (copper crusher). Most likely the cartridge was never loaded using British Cordite. The only prewar original Jeffery rifle I encountered has a Schüler chamber.
This was the state of affairs until Mr. Little mixed things up when Kynamco started production. Instead of working with the long established and CIP registered dimensions of the 12.7x70 Schüler, he decided to reinvent the wheel. Apparently he worked from an obscure drawing of a cartridge from the Kynoch archives (the company had never sold such a cartridge!), designed chambering dimensions around it and registered the whole shebang as the „proper dimensions“ for the .500 Jeffery. Now Kynoch had put a much shallower shoulder angle (for ease of manufacture?) on their cartridge drawing. (remember, British chambering/ cartridge dimensions were often quite sloppy in pre-war times.) The dire results are:
1) There are now two sets of different dimensions for the 12.7x70 aka .500 Schüler and the .500 Jeffery.
2) Kynamco`s cartridges will work ok in an original or Schüler chamber (with a lttle bit of fireforming the shoulder area), but original or Schüler dimension cartridges will not go into Mr. Little`s chambers.


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1278
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: kuduae]
      #354168 - 08/06/21 02:40 AM

I also only found out about 10 years ago that there are two cartridges and that I now have a 12.7x70 Schüler and not a 500 Jeffery anymore. As a precaution, Mr. Ritterbusch engraved 1998 both cartridge names on the barrel. The size of the cartridge of the nineties differ supposedly slightly from the original from Schüler, it's the so-called Romey Hybrid where A-Square also participated.

Didn't bother me when hunting.


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Huvius
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #354173 - 08/06/21 08:48 AM

Quote:

I'd be pretty interested in seeing it too! Since that's basically what I'm trying to do, some pictures would be awesome




I cannot find the listing but the seller’s name is Grouse Grove if I remember correctly.
You could contact him through one of his other listings and see if he still has the photos and if he’d share them.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Ithaca375
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Huvius]
      #354177 - 08/06/21 11:08 AM

Thanks, I'll try to contact him to see what it looked like!

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lancaster
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #354199 - 09/06/21 05:39 AM

thank you kuduae for the complete overview about this story. had only an abstract idea of what happen.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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93x64mm
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #354200 - 09/06/21 07:10 AM

Quote:

Thanks, I'll try to contact him to see what it looked like!




Ithaca375
If you can get those photos mate of that Arisaka actioned 500 it would be a marvel if you did, but to post them in here would be fantastic - never heard of this being done before!


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lancaster
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: 93x64mm]
      #354206 - 09/06/21 01:55 PM

yes, would not think it fits in this action original made for a small 6,5 mm round. but there were arisaka's rebuild for the 9,3x53R Finland so must having some potential.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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kuduae
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: lancaster]
      #354219 - 10/06/21 03:29 AM

Quote:

I also only found out about 10 years ago that there are two cartridges and that I now have a 12.7x70 Schüler and not a 500 Jeffery anymore. As a precaution, Mr. Ritterbusch engraved 1998 both cartridge names on the barrel. The size of the cartridge of the nineties differ supposedly slightly from the original from Schüler, it's the so-called Romey Hybrid where A-Square also participated.

Didn't bother me when hunting.



Grandveneur, I forgot to mention the third variation of the 12.7x70 Schüler / .500 Jeffery theme. Before David Little of Kynamco messed up the situation for good by inventing the “New .500 Jeffery”, the Belgian-German gunsmith Harald Wolf, once publisher of Hatari Times, created his own experimental/wildcat/proprietary “.500 Jeffery Improved”. This version had the chamber and case dimensions of the original, but without Schüler’s rebated rim. Instead, his rim was the same diameter as the base. Here is a scan from Hatari Times No.5 :

Cartridges were loaded for Wolf by the former German custom loader Wolfgang Romey with Wolf’s proprietary HWM headstamp instead of Romey’s usual WR. The cases were made by Horneber. This conundrum of two different case/chamber shapes and two rim sizes led many gunmakers to keep clear of the 12.7x70 Schüler / .500 Jeffery / .500 Jeffery Imp mess.


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grandveneur
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: kuduae]
      #354220 - 10/06/21 03:40 AM

I know the famous cartridge in particular from the magazine Hatari Times.

I especially like the comment from Arthur B. Alphin in his book Any Shot You Want:

"The case for it are made in a guy's basement in Germany. All this has made a complete hash out of standardization."

Was in Belgium, not in Germany, doesn't matter.

Edited by grandveneur (10/06/21 03:55 AM)


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kuduae
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #354222 - 10/06/21 05:04 AM

Quote:

"The case for it are made in a guy's basement in Germany. All this has made a complete hash out of standardization." Was in Belgium, not in Germany, doesn't matter.



Maybe Alphin was talking not about Harald Wolf, the designer, but about Horneber, who indeed made brass cases in the basement shop of his house in Fürth, Germany.


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
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Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: kuduae]
      #354226 - 10/06/21 05:34 AM

Correct, it would be possible that Horneber is meant.

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JFE
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Loc: Vic, Australia
Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: kuduae]
      #354409 - 18/06/21 12:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I also only found out about 10 years ago that there are two cartridges and that I now have a 12.7x70 Schüler and not a 500 Jeffery anymore. As a precaution, Mr. Ritterbusch engraved 1998 both cartridge names on the barrel. The size of the cartridge of the nineties differ supposedly slightly from the original from Schüler, it's the so-called Romey Hybrid where A-Square also participated.

Didn't bother me when hunting.



Grandveneur, I forgot to mention the third variation of the 12.7x70 Schüler / .500 Jeffery theme. Before David Little of Kynamco messed up the situation for good by inventing the “New .500 Jeffery”, the Belgian-German gunsmith Harald Wolf, once publisher of Hatari Times, created his own experimental/wildcat/proprietary “.500 Jeffery Improved”. This version had the chamber and case dimensions of the original, but without Schüler’s rebated rim. Instead, his rim was the same diameter as the base. Here is a scan from Hatari Times No.5 :

Cartridges were loaded for Wolf by the former German custom loader Wolfgang Romey with Wolf’s proprietary HWM headstamp instead of Romey’s usual WR. The cases were made by Horneber. This conundrum of two different case/chamber shapes and two rim sizes led many gunmakers to keep clear of the 12.7x70 Schüler / .500 Jeffery / .500 Jeffery Imp mess.




The 500 AHR was also an improved 500J. AHR increased the rim width and changed the shoulder angle but they also increased the neck length. Clearly with the longer neck it was never designed to work in a 500J chamber, but looking at the drawing it looks like it might have been designed for 500J ammo to headspace in the 500 AHR chamber, which would be an advantage if you lost your ammo in transit.


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Loc: Alaska
Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: JFE]
      #354410 - 18/06/21 04:04 PM

I just received my 570 grain Woodleigh Weldcore .510 grain bullets from Huntingtons. Got 3 boxes of 25.

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3954
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: Ithaca375]
      #354423 - 18/06/21 10:25 PM

Quote:

Thanks, I'll try to contact him to see what it looked like!




Any luck on trying to find that Araisaka article Ithaca375?


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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 500 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #357808 - 03/11/21 11:49 AM

I buy Jamison brass from Graf & Sons for my 500 Jeffery. Haven't looked in awhile bought 200 cases so I'm good for quite a while with 10 reloads per case.

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"


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