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Ripp
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The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges
      #343622 - 25/07/20 03:28 PM

One man's perspective..

https://www.fieldandstream.com/story/guns/the-best-dangerous-game-cartridges/

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grandveneur
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #343629 - 25/07/20 05:25 PM

When it comes to cartridges everyone can make a list of which cartridges he thinks is best for something. However , I agree with the opinion of the author regarding the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum.

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Ripp
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: grandveneur]
      #343637 - 25/07/20 11:04 PM

Quote:

When it comes to cartridges everyone can make a list of which cartridges he thinks is best for something. However , I agree with the opinion of the author regarding the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum. [/quote.

I agree with both of your points...

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #343641 - 26/07/20 12:03 AM

Interesting, however the author did not mention WHY Jack Lott didn't just use the .450 Watt's case, a long time wildcat on the full length H&H case, which is identical to the case on HIS .458 Lott.

The "Lott" chamber, if cut correctly, has a gradual angle from the 'end of the case' up into the leade/throat of the chamber. This is so if shooting .458 Win. Mag. ammo in it, jacket material is not scraped off by the 90 degree normal end of the chamber angle up into the throat. That is the only change form the Watt's chambering.
I read about this back when jack Lott brought out the Lott chambering, as why - an article, by him.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: DarylS]
      #343650 - 26/07/20 02:52 AM

I planned to say nothing. But by the end I concluded I don't know why people get paid for such poorly written articles.

Recoil numbers inconsistent."Same" ballistics for 416 Rigby and Rem? .460 Weatherby Mag comments. .404 ballistics 100 years out of date. The moronic .375 comment. Among others ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Edited by NitroX (26/07/20 06:40 AM)


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Rule303
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: DarylS]
      #343663 - 26/07/20 08:23 AM

Quote:

Interesting, however the author did not mention WHY Jack Lott didn't just use the .450 Watt's case, a long time wildcat on the full length H&H case, which is identical to the case on HIS .458 Lott.

The "Lott" chamber, if cut correctly, has a gradual angle from the 'end of the case' up into the leade/throat of the chamber. This is so if shooting .458 Win. Mag. ammo in it, jacket material is not scraped off by the 90 degree normal end of the chamber angle up into the throat. That is the only change form the Watt's chambering.
I read about this back when jack Lott brought out the Lott chambering, as why - an article, by him.




So all he had to do was take the end of chamber off a 450 Watt's chamber then puts his name to it. Call me a cynic

Tend to agree with NitroX on the out of date ballistics and same with those of the 416 Rem and Rigby. Both fine rounds but one makes the 2400 fps no trouble the outer not so easily.

To me the 375H&H is a damned fine DG round for some DG. Reason I say this is more hunters can handle the 375 and place their first shot better than they can with the 400 and over calibres. This would be my preferred calibre for the big cats. That said I am much more comfortable hunting Buff and El with my 416 Rigby than my 375H&H.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Rule303]
      #343673 - 26/07/20 05:03 PM

The recoil statistics too are BS. One round has different recoil for a similar bullet weight and same velocity. Of course the formula may have a different rifle weight, but that is beside the point.

Also one rifle is comfortable with the same recoil number as another is bad recoiling.

And ".460 Weatherby Mag makes a fine DG cartridge" yet no PHs , or real ones, use it. A horrible useful over recoiling cartridge. No need for such high velocity in a big bore. Far more effective to go up in calibre, and a wider heavier bullet. Who uses a .460 Wea Mag for sniping? No need for high velocity.

Some shooting (and advertising) writers are so over rated.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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crshelton
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #343682 - 26/07/20 10:39 PM

NX said "Some shooting (and advertising) writers are so over rated." AMEN!

And the need to publish leads writers to repeat the same tripe over and over.

One of several reasons that I skip most such articles in magazines and on forums.

Such topics are used as "click bait" on forums that charge for advertising. Easy to spot after a bit.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/


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EDELWEISS
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: crshelton]
      #343684 - 26/07/20 11:33 PM

I used to look at articles like that for information, then I looked at them for the author's opinion, especially if I valued his opinion. Now I generally dont read them because I have opinions based on my own experiences.

I still seek opinions to point me on the path to my experiences on new ideas and projects. Ive learned a LOT over the years, much of that from poor choices; and sometimes the best decisions still lead to failures. That being said, rarely have I ever wished for more than a 375H&H, even though my standard GOTO for dangerous game is is a 470NE.

When I bought the 470, I was in search of a 500NE (mostly just so I could say I had a 500 when others had a 470). I was talked out of the 500 by someone whos opinion I valued. His most convincing argument was the availability of 470 vs 500. Since then I seen 470 pretty much every place Ive looked for DG ammo; but 500 only once.

When it comes down to it 375H&H will go more places

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DarylS
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Rule303]
      #343690 - 27/07/20 12:58 AM

Quote:



So all he had to do was take the end of chamber off a 450 Watt's chamber then puts his name to it. Call me a cynic






Yes. The Watt's Reamer was changed from the 90 into a 45 degree angle of of the case length on the reamer to a 2 or 3 steady degree angle is all.

The Watts was heralded as being such that you could shoot the 2 1/2" .458 Win Mag rounds in it if need be, but the shaved guilding metal had to be
removed before you could chamber & shoot the full length rounds. That was sometimes difficult to so without a chambering reamer.
Jack "fixed" that problem & his chambering of course, allowed the extra ballistics over factory quotes for the .458 Win. Mag.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: crshelton]
      #343692 - 27/07/20 01:39 AM

Quote:

NX said "Some shooting (and advertising) writers are so over rated." AMEN!

And the need to publish leads writers to repeat the same tripe over and over.

One of several reasons that I skip most such articles in magazines and on forums.

Such topics are used as "click bait" on forums that charge for advertising. Easy to spot after a bit.




Yes the bout the 375 in the article was pure click bait.

As for naysayers not liking articles etc etc if we did nothing the naysayers don't like, we would have nothing on forums.

I like that Ripp (or others) puts up these occasional articles. Some I get nuggets of information from, others I get some angst out on them. Either way it entertains me.

If a member doesn't like them, it is simple, don't read, don't follow the links.

But the internet and instant articles have led to the death of good writing skills. Some nuggets do remain however.

PS I learned the difference between a Watt and a Lott from this thread, so that is a LOT!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (27/07/20 07:32 PM)


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rigbymauser
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #343693 - 27/07/20 02:03 AM

The boring part of the .450Nitro is then you only need on doublerifle.
The boring part of the .375 H&H is then you only need on bolt rifle.


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EDELWEISS
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #343694 - 27/07/20 02:06 AM

Quote:

.....the internet and instant articles have led to the death of good writing skills. ...




EXACTLY. Writing well is like dressing well, some have learned to do both well, others never seem to understand what failing to do either well means

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grandveneur
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges *DELETED* [Re: rigbymauser]
      #343699 - 27/07/20 03:04 AM

Post deleted by grandveneur

Edited by grandveneur (27/07/20 03:15 AM)


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Claydog
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: grandveneur]
      #343703 - 27/07/20 08:15 AM

The best is the one you have in your hands when you need it. The most underrated is the 458 win mag.

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DarylS
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Claydog]
      #343722 - 27/07/20 01:48 PM

Well, I never owned nor shot a .458 Win. Mag. but I used Barnes .458 Win. Mag. loading data for my .458 Alaskan (similar case capacity)& had no trouble breaking 2,200fps with 500gr. Hornady bullets, just as they showed & with several powders. My vel. was about 40fps higher than theirs was, which might have been due to my not using their bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #343735 - 27/07/20 11:46 PM

I knew this article would stir a lot of controversy..not as much as 'Why I Hate the .270" article..but .....

Years past I used to respect this guys information, reading him now however makes me wonder if he truly has ever been to Africa..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges *DELETED* [Re: grandveneur]
      #343738 - 28/07/20 12:58 AM

Quote:

Post deleted by grandveneur




Why? It was an interesting reply.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Claydog]
      #343747 - 28/07/20 10:17 AM

Quote:

The best is the one you have in your hands when you need it. The most underrated is the 458 win mag.




You mean over rated don't you. A 45-70 stoked up is about as good.


Ripp you think this might start some controversy?


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Ripp
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Rule303]
      #343763 - 28/07/20 10:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The best is the one you have in your hands when you need it. The most underrated is the 458 win mag.




You mean over rated don't you. A 45-70 stoked up is about as good.


Ripp you think this might start some controversy?




..It might..however never underestimate the 45-70...

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Postman
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Ripp]
      #343764 - 29/07/20 12:36 AM

I put on my Birkenstocks, funky shorts, tie dyed T-Shirt and went “hippy” on my brand new as yet unfired Marlin Trapper .45-70 and gave it a funky custom camo paint job!!! These Marlingtons get no respect!!!!!

Would I use it for Cape Buffalo? Yes, if it was my only rifle..... if I had a choice? No fucking way!!!! Give me a premium bullet that weighs at least 100 grains more than the classic 405 grain .45-70, and crank that bullet up about 200 fps, and now you’re talking!!!

p.s. I’m a sucker for getting drawn into a good firearms controversy!!!! And, the biggest firearms discussion bait on the planet revolves around “can” and “should”...........

Edited by Postman (29/07/20 12:43 AM)


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crshelton
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Postman]
      #343785 - 29/07/20 08:30 AM

"Would I use it for Cape Buffalo? Yes, if it was my only rifle..... if I had a choice? "

Well our bullet testing team had a choice and killed several cape buff with 45-70 and 45-90 Winchester 1886 rifles.
Our fave for buff was the Alaska Bullet Works Kodiak 450 grain heavy full metal jacket bullet loaded to around 2000 in 45-70 and 2150 fps in 45-90. Most were shoot -throughs.
For the ele, both Punch and North fork bullets shot through the head and into the body.
We used Winchester 1886 rifles as some of our loads were, well "warm" and because we all shoot the 1886.

It is the bullet that kills, so we tried a wide variety and now still use the ones that came out best. I still have some of those DG loads and am having the 45-70 chamber of my DR extended to handle the 45-90 ammo and still be able to shoot the 45-70 (as does my 1886 45-90). No worries about accuracy and such as I have taken a lot of non DG with factory 45-70 ammo.


No worries about the conversion as three makers of double rifles say it is a no-brainer.
It has 26 inch barrels that each shoot sub minute of angle:


--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

Edited by crshelton (29/07/20 08:33 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: crshelton]
      #343801 - 29/07/20 03:27 PM

Quote:


Our fave for buff was the Alaska Bullet Works Kodiak 450 grain heavy full metal jacket bullet loaded to around 2000 in 45-70 and 2150 fps in 45-90.




Nothing wrong with those ballistics.

If I had a .45/70 for dangerous game. Or a .458 Win Mag. For both I would try a 480 gr instead of a 500 gr to see if the velocities could be increased. Or as above a 450 gr projectile. All of suitable type and construction.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: Postman]
      #343804 - 29/07/20 03:35 PM

Quote:

I put on my Birkenstocks, funky shorts, tie dyed T-Shirt and went “hippy” on my brand new as yet unfired Marlin Trapper .45-70 and gave it a funky custom camo paint job!!! These Marlingtons get no respect!!!!!




Edelweiss will not like you! Only tweed suits with waistcoat and tie, or full lederhosen suits please.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ash
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Re: The Best Dangerous Game Cartridges [Re: NitroX]
      #343812 - 29/07/20 09:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Our fave for buff was the Alaska Bullet Works Kodiak 450 grain heavy full metal jacket bullet loaded to around 2000 in 45-70 and 2150 fps in 45-90.




Nothing wrong with those ballistics.

If I had a .45/70 for dangerous game. Or a .458 Win Mag. For both I would try a 480 gr instead of a 500 gr to see if the velocities could be increased. Or as above a 450 gr projectile. All of suitable type and construction.




480 vs 500 is a 4% reduction in weight. Is the velocity difference greater than 4%? I suppose it adds up over 2000fps to become 80fps more.


I’m wondering how a 440gr @ 2000fps would go compared to a 480@2150

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