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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Gankai
.224 member


Reged: 04/10/16
Posts: 6
Loc: PST
Floating the barrel on 40+ Caliber Rifles
      #342983 - 03/07/20 05:02 PM

So All my lower caliber rifles are bedded and the barrels are floated for accuracy. I noticed that my early Dakota's in 416RM, 416 Rigby, and 458 WM do not have floated barrels. The rifles have fixed sites and removable Swaro 1-6x EE's. Any thoughts from the group on floating 40+ caliber barrels?

Rick


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Floating the barrel on 40+ Caliber Rifles [Re: Gankai]
      #342984 - 03/07/20 05:40 PM

Simple. If they shoot well then like any rifle leave them. If they do not shoot well then bed and float them. My 416Rigby has the action and first couple of inches of barrel bedded and barrel floated.Except for the recoil lug under the rear sight base- common on CZ550. Only did that to make sure the stock did not split. Rifle was a sub MOA before and after. No noticeable improvement.

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3954
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Floating the barrel on 40+ Caliber Rifles [Re: Rule303]
      #342988 - 03/07/20 09:20 PM

I'm with you Rule 303 - if it goes well then leave it!

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Floating the barrel on 40+ Caliber Rifles [Re: 93x64mm]
      #343002 - 04/07/20 02:01 AM

Floating the barrels usually doesn't improve single or 2 shot accuracy, but makes more consistent longer strings of shots. Floating was the "boon" of match rifles, requiring 10 shots for score + sighters.

A properly bedded rifle barrel, in wood or glass has the potential to maintain accuracy over longer strings of shots, but it is not normally the case. In the 70's when I shot match rifles, oft times the 'guys' were re-bedding their rifles as their accuracy over long strings went South.

A bedded barrel could not be trusted to maintain accuracy over as many as 10 (score) + maybe 10 (sighter) shots.

People started 'floating' sporting rifle barrels in about the early 70's to prevent uneven bedding from 'throwing' shots when the barrels warmed up.

Most times the results were amazing, sometimes not so much.

My 1939 M70 has factory bedding of perfect wood/metal fit in the action and forend. It shoots 5-shot groups into just over 1/2" at 100 meters with both 165's and 180's. I will not touch it's bedding.

Whether you float them or not is up to you. "Floating" the barrel, no matter what the calibre, can have the advantage of consistent accuracy when changing locations (countries) with different temperature/humidity levels as the wood can move a little without touching the barrel or bending it.

As Rule 303 notes, normal bedding for floating a barrel, is under the action, fore and aft as well as the parallel portion of the chamber area of the barrel.

Too, there should be no contact with the stock on the sides, front or bottom of the recoil lug.
This is how I was taught, for match rifle bedding.

edited: My .458's and .458 Alaskan shot very nice 5 shot groups or 1" to 1 1/2" @ 100M with their barrels fully bedded in glass.
Good enough for hunting.
My .375 is action bedded + 1" under the chamber. It is a sub 1" rifle with 235's, 270's and 300's, of 3 different makes of bullets. Is it more consistent - maybe. The .458 almost does that with cast, but not the .375 - oh well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Gankai
.224 member


Reged: 04/10/16
Posts: 6
Loc: PST
Re: Floating the barrel on 40+ Caliber Rifles [Re: DarylS]
      #343083 - 06/07/20 05:35 PM

Daryl - thanks for the thoughtfullness of your and the other replies. I was thinking about existing wood to metal contact and the effects on barrel harmonics. I had not thought about possible changes in humidity with changes in locations causing dimensional changes in the wood. Looks like I was trying to forget the humidity swings of some of the places we have lived/visited. Also looks like I get to shoot all the rifles all year and see if there are any significant changes in the point of impact. If we are good, then it is probably best to avoid the enemy of good (better).

Rick


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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 334
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Floating the barrel on 40+ Caliber Rifles [Re: Gankai]
      #343091 - 06/07/20 11:56 PM

Hello Rick.
The harmonics issue is certainly part of the story as related to stress relief or making up for it.
One nice thing about the big bores is that they are effectively bull barrels which solves part of the problem. Even though the hole is bigger, they are shorter compared to their diameter.

In most large caliber rifles (+40) most manufacturers just don't see longer range accuracy as great of a concern and closing the distance is the job of the guide. Fully bedded stocks and sling swivels on barrels just don't make that much of a difference

I have been bedding using the same treatment mentioned above, where the barrel is bedded just beyond the action (c 1"), mainly because I don't want pressure from shooting sticks/bipods or a sling to effect the point of impact. (although that changes when the sling is on the barrel which goes back to the big bore-short(er) range thing)

As also mentioned above, if you have to keep a stock from splitting, do what you have to. I am a big fan of magnum crossbolts as many stocks split in front of the trigger which will definitely throw off accuracy (and eventually destroy the stock).

You can also use steel/ aluminum blocks, pillars, etc as being non-compressible (less affected by atmospheric effects on the stock) so at least your screw tension stays where it should.

If you are interested, you can always cryo treat the barrel for better consistency.

In my limited experience with cryo treatment, it seems to cover a bunch of sins. I have only had two guns treated, but both worked so well that I didn't have to do anything extra to the to make them shoot.
One single shot rifle in 280 had groups that typically went: center,2", 8" for the first three shots from a cold barrel. No amount of bedding would help and the barrel was obviously not correctly stress relieved. Sent the barrel out for treatment and the same rifle consistently shoots into 3/4".

Good shooting.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny


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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Floating the barrel on 40+ Caliber Rifles [Re: Tom_H]
      #343212 - 11/07/20 07:07 AM

G'Day Fella''s,

Gankai, I'm not sure if you are refering to any rifle stock material type, or just wood stocks, so I will put my "Two Bob's" worth in, regarding wood stocks.

A lot is dependant on the quality, and seasoned state of the stock wood.
The stability of the wood it self, apparently comes from the wood type, grade and how long, and the method in which the wood was seasoned.
The best method of seasoning, or the method that the wood was allowed to dry out, is to air dry it.
It is not uncommon, for best quality stock wood, to have been air dried, for 20+ years .........
Apparently, and thru nessessity, many comercial stock blanks, have been Kiln dried (....... using Heat), to speed up this process.

So what I'm getting at here is, the stability of the stock wood, is one of the main concerns.
This is especially the case, in the forearm section of the stock, as this is where the wood is at it's thinnest, and can be more prone to movement, which can cause problems, for either a floated barrel, or one that is in partial or full contact ...........

Hope that helps

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Floating the barrel on 40+ Caliber Rifles [Re: Homer]
      #343219 - 11/07/20 09:51 AM

Further to the note above, is that mid 70's Rugers were probably the worse stocks available for "wandering" with the change of seasons, here in the North West.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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