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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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TOBY458
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Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity
      #258356 - 29/12/14 11:19 AM

I've been looking into the new Sako 85 Kodiak 375 h&h rifles with their 21" barrel. Do any of you have experience with such a short barrel in this caliber? Seems like velocity loss and muzzle blast could be a problem.

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Rule303
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: TOBY458]
      #258362 - 29/12/14 11:52 AM

I have not got the figures to do the maths at the moment. I would think you would have the same performance as a 375Styer with a bit more muzzle blast.

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szihn
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: Rule303]
      #258367 - 29/12/14 01:15 PM

The powder charge of a 375H&H is usually in the 67-75 grain range. The bore capacity however is far in excess of a 30 cal magnums, which burn about the same charge of powder.
The 30 cal magnums really need 24-26 inches of barrel length but the 375 does just fine with even 20".

Don't worry about the shorter barrel. The longer 24-25 inch tubes look nice and give a longer sight radius if you shoot the rifle with irons instead of a scope, but for use with a scope you'll be fine with a 21" barrel.

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chuck375
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: szihn]
      #258368 - 29/12/14 01:25 PM

You should lose about 20 fps per inch (60 fps compared to a 24" barrel). It's really inconsequential. Muzzle blast may not be, I've never shot one with a barrel that short.

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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Ripp
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: TOBY458]
      #258378 - 30/12/14 01:17 AM

I have a 22" on one of my 416's and love it..handles very quick when in the thick stuff..and per my chrono have lost very little as to mv...in a .375 I would get it..the mv loss will be inconsequential..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Postman
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: Ripp]
      #258392 - 30/12/14 09:13 AM

I have one of these Sako Kodiaks. Absolutely lovely rifle. Less than 1/2" groups @ 100 yards, all day every day using Barnes 300 grain TSX and 250 grain TTSX. Muzzle blast doesn't seem to be an issue, although I might have been dropped on my head once too many times as an infant and I just haven't noticed it!! The thing feeds like butter and the trigger breaks like a glass rod. Very typical Sako quality.

The shorter barrel won't make enough of a difference to velocity or killing power to make any noticeable difference. Both my warthog and Impala were shot quartering to and were complete full length diagonal passthroughs. Granted, both are small animals but that's all I've shot with the Kodiak so far.

Edited by Postman (30/12/14 09:16 AM)

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SharpsNitro
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: Postman]
      #258418 - 31/12/14 02:37 PM

I have one of the Steyr Scouts in 376, I've only run Varget through it so far but there doesn't seem to be an inordinate amount of muzzle blast with its 19" barrel. The slower burn rate powder the more blast you can expect.

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TOBY458
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #258509 - 03/01/15 11:38 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. I was figuring that the short tube wouldn't matter much, but was just curious as to your experience. Postman, how does the detachable magazine work out? I've read that the new style latch is hard to operate. I have a Sako 75 in 30/06 and it's smooth as butter to operate. I've also had two model 75's in 375 h&h that were reliable as well. I Guess the new magazine latch must be needed mostly for peace of mind that the magazine doesn't fall out under recoil. Thanks again guys.

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Postman
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: TOBY458]
      #258511 - 03/01/15 12:05 PM

I find the new magazine latch to be a wonderful improvement in ensuring the mag stays where it's supposed to. It might slow magazine swaps, but I dont swap mags when I'm hunting like I might on an IPSC course. Having said that, I never found the model 75 magazines or latches to be lacking in any way.

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TOBY458
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: Postman]
      #258515 - 03/01/15 12:45 PM

Yea, I'm partial to Sako if you couldn't tell. . I have a Sako AV Synthetic 416 Rem.Mag as well as the 75 30/06 I mentioned earlier. I've owned several more through the years and have never been disappointed. So the Kodiak 375 is calling pretty loudly!

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albertan
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: TOBY458]
      #259627 - 29/01/15 04:24 PM

I remember an old article penned by Rick Jamison when pressure measuring devices became available for the average shooter ( albeit, with fairly deep pockets). An Oehler, I believe, is what he used.

Any way, he had a brand name gunsmith screw on a top flight barrel chambered in .300 Winchester magnum, originally in a 26 inch length, then had it cut down to 24 inches by the same gunsmith and run a series of tests from both barrel lengths. The load was 75 grains of pre-extreme H-4831, Winchester brass, a CCI-250 primer, and a 180 grain Sierra bullet. The load had a chamber pressure of 62 000 psi. The muzzle pressure with the 26 inch tube was 12 000 psi. When the barrel was cut down to 24 inches the muzzle pressure was 15 000 psi. That is a whopping 25% increase in muzzle pressure. That is why shorter barrels kick harder and are much louder that longer tubes.

As for muzzle velocity, I cannot say. A cut down barrel with be slower that it was when it was longer, there is no denying that. How much is very calibre dependant. In a .270 Winchester, Ken Water's findings were about 50 fps per inch. Hornady claims in their manual the tiny, and low pressure 30-30 loses 35 fps per inch. In a .375 H&H I cannot say.

Food for thought. Good shooting.

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TOBY458
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: albertan]
      #260702 - 19/02/15 08:25 AM

Yes.I wish they made the Kodiak with a 23" barrel. Kind of a compromise length that would be short enough, without losing velocity and gaining muzzle blast.

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TOBY458
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: TOBY458]
      #267525 - 07/07/15 10:04 AM

I know this is an old thread, but I finally broke down and bought a Sako Kodiak 375 h&h. It has a 21.3" barrel. So far I have only loaded 300 gr TSX bullets with RL15 powder. I'm getting 2450 fps with 71.5 gr RL15, using my Pro Chrono, chronograph. This is shown as a max load on the Barnes web site. They show a velocity of 2589 fps. Do any of you care to load this bullet/powder combo in a 24" barrel rifle, so we can see what the real world velocity difference is?

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Postman
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: TOBY458]
      #267529 - 07/07/15 12:10 PM

Hey Toby:

You will NOT regret this purchase. What is your intended target/game? I have grown a fondness for the 250 grain TTSX. They will reach waaaay out there. And on the flip side, the 300 grain TSX FB will hammer a cape buffalo on a broadside shot at under 50 yards. just fine. I have a Swarovski 1x6 Z6i mounted atop this gun. I dont often endorse a particular gun, but this one is a go to rifle for me.... My other go to is a SxS that cost more than 20x as much that I am somewhat afraid to scratch or bump.... The Kodiak really rocks!!! And I will Never sell it.

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TOBY458
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: Postman]
      #267530 - 07/07/15 12:30 PM

I hope to hunt cape buffalo and or OZ water buffalo at some point. Those big long 300 gr TSX bullets look to be just the ticket. I was hoping to get up to 2500 fps, but 2450 isn't bad out of a short barrel. I doubt a buff would know the difference out to 100 yards. And, I'm sure there are other powders that might produce a little more velocity too. I was mainly just curious as to how much velocity loss there is going from 24" to 21.3" barrel, in the real world, not just on paper.

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Postman
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: TOBY458]
      #267534 - 07/07/15 02:26 PM

I will try to get out to the range and chrony my 300 grain and 250 grain loads and publish the results here. It may be closer to September by the time I get out to the range, but I will get out and will post results....... please bear with my nasty schedule.....

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HendrikNZ
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: Postman]
      #267536 - 07/07/15 07:46 PM

Sako Kodiak is an awesome rifle, here is a mate on the range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA9RpvRYPjw

Muzzle blast is not significantly worse than a "standard" 375 and the short barrel makes this model handle very well!

The buff certainly won't notice the difference

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xausa
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: HendrikNZ]
      #267542 - 07/07/15 10:51 PM

In 1970 I bought a ZKK 602 BRNO in .375 H&H. Before I even took delivery of it, I had the barrel shortened to 22" and the front sight relocated. I used it for years with no complaints, until finally having it converted to .500 Jeffery.

Muzzle blast is a factor of barrel length, cartridge expansion ratio, powder burning rate and bullet weight. The worst offenders are the "over bore capacity" small calibers like the .300 Weatherby, which use slow burning powders in large amounts, have a very low expansion ratio and shoot relatively light bullets. The least problematic are cartridges like the .458 Win Mag, which have very high expansion ratios, use fast burning powders and shoot heavy bullets. The .375 H&H falls somewhere in between, but is closer to the .458 than the .300.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: xausa]
      #267545 - 07/07/15 11:19 PM

My .375 H&H has a shortish barrel, will have to re-measure it but either 23 or 21 inches??? I get about 2350 fps with a 300 gr projectile which still works fine.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Caprivi
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: NitroX]
      #267547 - 08/07/15 12:06 AM

I had a 21" barreled Whitworth that did 2450 with 300's and RL-15. Also had a 20" 375wby that did 2550fps with 300's.

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To live life as it is handed to me from God

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DarylS
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: Caprivi]
      #267553 - 08/07/15 02:00 AM

I run a 26" bl. on my .375/06IMP and get 2,470fps with all the 300gr., and 2,650fps with 270gr. TSX. Love it and don't mind the length.

My old .375/06IMP at 22", did just fine and was not quite 100fps lower speed - different barrels give different speeds with identical loads.

You won't know until you chronograph it.

The .375 H&H developed it's fame with a 300gr. at factory speeds, 300gr. at 2,400fps and 270's at 2,600fps - just what the speeds were out of hunting rifles, don't know, but they'd be less than these "published speeds", usually taken from 28" bls in 1912., iirc?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TOBY458
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: DarylS]
      #267697 - 10/07/15 10:24 AM

I'm going to experiment with different powders to get a feel for the best short barrel loads with the highest velocity, just out of curiosity. I'll post results.

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CommandCar
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: TOBY458]
      #267701 - 10/07/15 12:13 PM

Quote:

I've been looking into the new Sako 85 Kodiak 375 h&h rifles with their 21" barrel. Do any of you have experience with such a short barrel in this caliber? Seems like velocity loss and muzzle blast could be a problem.



educated guess: expect about 2,300 FPS with factory loads and 2,400 FPS with handloads & 300 grain bullets

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gwh
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: CommandCar]
      #267721 - 10/07/15 09:39 PM

I have used the sako Kodiak 375 extensively, including Africa in 2010. A great rifle, accurate, well balanced and avery slick action. I was running around 2650 with a 270 gr woodleigh ppsn

--------------------
Hunt hard, shoot straight

"I speak of Africa and golden joys; the joy of wandering through lonely lands; the joy of hunting the mighty and terrible lords of the wilderness, the cunning, the wary and the grim"

Theodore Roosevelt, Khartoum, 1910

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TOBY458
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Re: Short Barrel 375 H&H Velocity [Re: gwh]
      #275150 - 16/12/15 08:33 AM



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