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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Buster95
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Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag?
      #259727 - 31/01/15 02:32 PM

Just wondering if it is possible. The gun is a Savage 111.

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Shackleton
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #259729 - 31/01/15 04:30 PM

Rechamber, no. Rebarrel, maybe depending on action length and how much work you're willing to do in terms of modifying the bolt and magazine(if necessary).

--------------------
"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Shackleton]
      #259730 - 31/01/15 04:40 PM

My error I mean re barreling off course.

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Ash
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #259731 - 31/01/15 04:47 PM

As a 7mm Rem Mag the length and boltface should be fine (and magazine). I think there'd be miner feeding work, and that's about it.

Never done this conversion, but i'm confident it wouldn't require much.


Good luck! And have fun

--------------------
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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Ash]
      #259746 - 01/02/15 01:35 AM

Any difference between a 7mm and a 300 win mag? I know the 300 is longer but I'm pretty sure they use the same action but not so sure about the magazine.

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DarylS
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #259756 - 01/02/15 05:56 AM

7mm bl. to a .458 bl. on a Savage might be as simple as replacing the barrel. There was a guy on a site I frequent, who had 3 Savage rifles, with several bolt faces, and over .30 different rifle calibre barrels for them. 3 actions, over 30 barrels - just changeable on the kitchen table once you get the nut off and first change-over done.

Headspacing is done with actual ctgs. for that rifle, winding the barrel in until it touches with a chambered case, then lock the barrel nut - done.

The company selling pre-chambered and threaded barrels for Savage rifles used to be www.sharpshooters.com or something close to that. Texas, IIRC.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: DarylS]
      #259765 - 01/02/15 07:24 AM


Yes.
Not much to it.

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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: szihn]
      #259807 - 02/02/15 02:35 AM

Thank you!

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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #259810 - 02/02/15 03:57 AM

Another question concerning aftermarket stocks for Savage long action with detachable magazine, the only option are Boyds and Hogue?

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Ash
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #259853 - 02/02/15 05:54 PM

You could get a custom stock made

I don't know about stocks so can't answer, sorry.

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Norman4
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Ash]
      #259899 - 03/02/15 10:17 AM

On the subject of stocks, I would guess rebarreling might not be the only issue. Depending on the stock, you may need to do some recoil lug work and some reinforcing. A .458 is a different cat from a 7mm Rem Mag in that respect. Norman4

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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Norman4]
      #259906 - 03/02/15 11:47 AM

Quote:

On the subject of stocks, I would guess rebarreling might not be the only issue. Depending on the stock, you may need to do some recoil lug work and some reinforcing. A .458 is a different cat from a 7mm Rem Mag in that respect. Norman4



Yes I know for the recoil lug I will change it for an heavy duty one, for the stock the Hogue with a full length aluminum bedding block will be strong enough I guess.

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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #260913 - 22/02/15 02:30 AM

And what about re barreling a Savage 300 win mag in 458 Lott, I know only as a single shot rifle but with the possibility to shoot 458 win mag too from the magazine.

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DarylS
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #260920 - 22/02/15 03:57 AM

The .450 Watts and Lott both used the full length .375 H&H case. If the .300 Win Mag model Savage you have can handle this length, then the answer is yes.

About the only difference between the Lott and Watt's cartridges as I understand it, is the Lott's sloping "Mean Little Shoulder" - ie: no mean little shoulder as in a normal rifle chamber.

Due to the gradual angle up into the throat of his chamber, shooting short rounds like the .458 Win Mag will not scrape bullet jacket material off the the bullet as it enters the chamber's leade then throat.

Due to normal chamber shape of the Watt's this scraping or cutting of jacket material is likely to happen - injure the bullet jacket's integrity and also cause innacuracy. The Lott should be more accurate with any shorter cases than 2.850".

Jack Lott said this was the sole reason for his chamber's shape.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: DarylS]
      #260988 - 23/02/15 08:38 AM

The magazine box is too short for the 458 Lott but good for 458 win mag. Another question concerning shooting 458WM in 458 Lott, 600 gr bullets in a 458WM is possible? What's the max COL with enough neck tension? What about powder capacity?

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DarylS
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #261001 - 23/02/15 11:34 AM

Maximum length with standard crimping dies is whatever length they are with the bullet crimped in place.
With a Lee Factory Crimp Tool, the crimp can be applied anywhere, thus the oal is whatever the rifle's chamber throat allows.

There used to be 600gr. data for the .458 mag. It seems to me, a ceiling of around 2,100fps was listed. At one time, Barnes made copper tubed bullets in 300g.r to 600gr. for the .458. They were available in .032 and .049" jackets. Today, Barnes still makes and sells these or "Barnes Originals" - I do not know if you can get these in over 400gr. weights, but at that weight, they are both spitzers as well as flat nosed for lever guns. Today, they are only made with .032" jackets, thus not suitable for the faster magnums, I'd expect.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: DarylS]
      #261222 - 26/02/15 10:09 AM

Quote:

The .450 Watts and Lott both used the full length .375 H&H case. If the .300 Win Mag model Savage you have can handle this length, then the answer is yes.

About the only difference between the Lott and Watt's cartridges as I understand it, is the Lott's sloping "Mean Little Shoulder" - ie: no mean little shoulder as in a normal rifle chamber.

Due to the gradual angle up into the throat of his chamber, shooting short rounds like the .458 Win Mag will not scrape bullet jacket material off the the bullet as it enters the chamber's leade then throat.

Due to normal chamber shape of the Watt's this scraping or cutting of jacket material is likely to happen - injure the bullet jacket's integrity and also cause innacuracy. The Lott should be more accurate with any shorter cases than 2.850".

Jack Lott said this was the sole reason for his chamber's shape.



The 458 Lott chamber don't have a low-angled chamber step like the 45-70?

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DarylS
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: Buster95]
      #261266 - 27/02/15 01:41 AM

The Lott Chamber as Jack Lott designed it, has no step at the end of the neck area. He said he designed it with a sloping entry into the throat to prevent guilding metal shaving if shorter ammunition, specifically .458 Win Mag was fired from it - that was the BIG change and sole reason for it's existence.

The .450 Watts was already 'out'.

All other chambers have a 90 degree 'step' at their end. 1/2 way up the 90 degree angle, is a 45 degree slope into the leade or freebore, whichever it has. BR shooters call that 45 degree slope, "That Mean Little Shoulder".

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albertan
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: DarylS]
      #261358 - 28/02/15 09:44 PM

Savage made a 116 Safari Express in .300 Win magnum, .338 Win magnum, .375 H&H, and .458 Winchester magnum. They employed a 22 inch barrel. Two inches was a sleeved muzzle brake that could be turned on and off very easily. So, in effect, you had a 24 inch barrel. The metal work was stainless, the stock was wood, and the express sights were stainless as well. There were two cross bolts and a good recoil pad. Google it for a reference as too what can be done to a Savage for express work.

I believe, but not 100% certain, that they employed a detachable box magazine. A Savage accu-trigger would not only be out of place, it would be an unmitigated disaster.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: albertan]
      #261365 - 01/03/15 12:11 AM

I know some Winchester 70's were made in multi barrel takedown rifles in calibres: 7mm Rem Mag; .338 Win Mag; and ether .416 Chatfield-Taylor or .458 Win Mag in the past.

So had the same unchanged bolt face, and the same internal magazine box and feeding. I don't know how or how well they all worked through the magazine.

I seriously considered getting one made.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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xausa
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: DarylS]
      #261368 - 01/03/15 01:59 AM

Daryl, when I had my .450 Watts built back in the early 1970's, I followed John Buhmiller's advice and went with a 22" twist, instead of the 14" twist used, unnecessarily in my opinion, by Winchester. John said that the slower twist would allow .458 Winchester Magnum ammunition to be fired accurately in the Watts chamber. This proved to be the case, at least with my rifle, a pre-64 Model 70, originally a .375 H&H.

The donor rifle had a checkered past. I bought it locally in Nashville from a man who said that he had opened the chamber up to .375 Weatherby Magnum himself. It was equipped with a Lyman Alaskan scope in an Echo side mount. Closer examination revealed that the scope had evidently slipped in the rings, and to prevent this, the rings had been drilled and tapped for set screws and notches filed in the scope tube to accommodate the screws. The chamber proved to have .021" excess headspace.

This was still the "good old days" and I sent the rifle back to Winchester with the request that they replace the barrel and receiver, and return the original barrel and receiver to me, which they promptly did. I had the Echo mount removed from the original receiver and replaced with a Griffin & Howe side mount and sent the Alaskan scope back to Lyman, who obligingly replaced the tube and refurbished the scope. I managed to come up with the parts to complete the action and had it re- barreled in caliber .450 Watts, using a Douglas Premium barrel and sent it to Fajan for a "Classic" stock. It accompanied me on my final trip to Africa, and performed satisfactorily in all respects.

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DarylS
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: xausa]
      #261370 - 01/03/15 03:35 AM

That's interesting, xausa - thanks for the post.

I am sure many guys did fire .458's in their .450's when necessary, just as many use .45/70's in their .45/90's when necessary and as noted in some Gun Digest or gun magazine writings - maybe it was Lyman in #44 or 45?

I do not fully understand the reason for John's suggestion of the 22" twist, though - but my own first .458 2" had a 15" twist - a McGowen barrel I believe it was.

Perhaps John thought the 14" or 15" twists were too quick for a bullet that was already moving, although it was only jumping 3/10" or so - same as the jump for .45/70's in a .45/90 chamber.

With the 3/8" throats in my.458 2" chambers, allowable loads were as if the chamber's case actually 'took' a 2.3" case with a .075" throat. Of course, this increase in case capacity is useful for heavier bullets and all bullets were allowed to be seated long. If a bullet was seated short as is typical for the .45/70 in Marlin Lever guns, the bullet is actually jumping 3/8", just as it is from the .458 to the .450 Watt's, however there is no little shoulder to deal with and thus no possible bullet scraping.

My rifle shot just about as well with short seated bullets as long, it's just that the ballistics suffered from short seating due to the restricted case capacity.

The first powder I used in the .458 American was HiVel#2 and Ackley's handbook was my only loading book with that round. Now, I have a LOT of loading data for it, my own and that of several wildcat books - even loads worked out for an XP100 single shot pistol - bet that's fun to shoot - NOT.

Lott's article in the magazine stated the reasons I noted above for this chamber. I bought the magazine with the article as I was interested in his reason's why, since I was well aware of & had fired a .450 Watts &, I always read John Lott and soaked up his African hunting stories. The ability to easily fire .458's was important to John due to the possiblity of running short of ammo, or having his .450Lott ammo not make it for the hunt in Africa- he noted that .458 Mag was fairly easily obtained there.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Buster95
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Re: Can you rechamber a 7mm rem mag to a 458 win mag? [Re: DarylS]
      #261463 - 02/03/15 09:12 AM

458 Lott will be my choice. Concerning barrel twist 1:14 is good for 458 Lott and 458 win mag?

Edited by Buster95 (02/03/15 09:13 AM)

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