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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: gwh]
      #253018 - 01/09/14 12:47 AM

I have a 5.3 lb 458 Lott made by Bijou Creek originally for Safari Kid. You wont shoot it 30 or 40 times in a day, I guarantee you that. It is a real stomper with full house loads!!!

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: bigdog]
      #253040 - 01/09/14 05:44 PM

5.3 lbs !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sweet mother of God. IŽd be scared of that,

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Rockdoc
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Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1212
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #253042 - 01/09/14 07:33 PM

bigdog, do you have some photos?

I almost a 505Gibbs on a GMA action that was very light, around 7lbs IIRC, maybe that was from Safarikid. Late 2010 I think.

How do you get a Lott that light? My 260 Kimber is 6lbs with scope, but a Lott?

Cheers, Chris

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gwh
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Reged: 28/01/08
Posts: 277
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Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: Rockdoc]
      #253046 - 01/09/14 11:54 PM

Bloody hell that's light, sure she's not 5.3 kg

--------------------
Hunt hard, shoot straight

"I speak of Africa and golden joys; the joy of wandering through lonely lands; the joy of hunting the mighty and terrible lords of the wilderness, the cunning, the wary and the grim"

Theodore Roosevelt, Khartoum, 1910

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: gwh]
      #253048 - 02/09/14 12:56 AM

It is not kilograms. But that does sound really lite. I will reweigh it. It was built by Mike Keuyppers from Bijou Creek and was one of their ultra lites.. Black synthetic stock, with a short 16 1/2" stainless barrel, I think. I will dig it out and recheck the specs on it.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: bigdog]
      #253050 - 02/09/14 01:22 AM

Ok, went and did some checking and weighing and measuring. The 458 Lott ultra lite by Bijou creek does weigh 5.3 lbs. It has an 18" barrell. I also have 2 other lightweights from B. Creek that also originally belonged to Safari Kid. I have a 6.5 lb 500 Jeffery, based off of a Win. M70 action with a 16 1/2" barrel, wood laminated stock. The third lightweight big bore is an 8.0 lb 600 overkill. I had but eventually traded a 4.3 lb lightweight gun in 416 remington. It was shot at a big bore shoot in Julip Texas about 4 or 5 years ago. All of theses guns came from Safari Kid. I would not have made the guns without a little more weight. There is a picture of the 600 overkill and the 458 lott together over on Acc. Rel. search "bijou Creek 458 lott" the 3rd post shows the picture. With the shorter barrels, you dont get full velocity of factory loads, but they still kick plenty, even for a guy that shoots alot of big bores.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: bigdog]
      #253051 - 02/09/14 01:32 AM

relooked up the A. R. post, The picture is shown in post titled " Bijou Creek 600 OK Rogue 16"/8LBS.... 458 Lott 18"/5.3 lbs" post is by Safari Kid. For those interested. If someone could transfer that picture to this post it would be nice. Well beyond my computer skills though.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: bigdog]
      #253053 - 02/09/14 01:51 AM

Not trying to bore anybody, but the specs on the ultra lightweight 500 Jeffery are as follows. Stainless steel winchester control feed action, 16" shilen barrel, stainless steel 1/4 rib, banded front sight, grey wood laminated stock, dual cross bolts, shoots 570 grain Barnes bullets at 2200 ft./sec. for 6100 ft.lbs. 7" drop at 200 yards. On A.R. find " Grizzinator" for picture. Thats what Safari Kid named the gun when he originally had it made.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: bigdog]
      #253059 - 02/09/14 05:00 AM

Quote:

Not trying to bore anybody, but the specs on the ultra lightweight 500 Jeffery are as follows. Stainless steel winchester control feed action, 16" shilen barrel, stainless steel 1/4 rib, banded front sight, grey wood laminated stock, dual cross bolts, shoots 570 grain Barnes bullets at 2200 ft./sec. for 6100 ft.lbs. 7" drop at 200 yards. On A.R. find " Grizzinator" for picture. Thats what Safari Kid named the gun when he originally had it made.



My 22 lr Winchester 69A without scope, but with factory receiver sight, weighs 5.8 pounds. Aside from the recoil question, I would find it very difficult to aim such a light rifle if I were breathing heavily from running to reach a shooting position, which happened to me on several occasions in Africa.

Frederick Courtney Selous mentioned acquiring a lifelong flinch from shooting a heavy recoiling black powder bore rifle. Using such a ridiculously light rifle in such a heavy caliber could well have the same effect. My .505 SRE wildcat develops virtually the same ballistics as the .500 Jeffery load just mentioned, and it weighs in at a modest 8.75 pounds. I would not care to reduce the weight at all.

In my younger years, I carried my 8+ pound M14 rifle 50 miles on a march starting at 8:00 on Friday morning and ending at 10:00 the next day, and the weight of the rifle was the least of my worries.

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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
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Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: xausa]
      #253079 - 02/09/14 10:16 PM

Recoil is greatly influenced by how you shoot gun.

For example the 30/378 Wby and the 378 Wby are not calibres where you fire a few shots off hand at a rock or tree.

In addition because of the velocity you will fire more shots in the never ending search for the best load.

Just some of my thoughts on the subject.

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mauserand9mm
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Reged: 03/09/09
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Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: xausa]
      #253113 - 03/09/14 09:16 PM

Quote:

....
In my younger years, I carried my 8+ pound M14 rifle 50 miles on a march starting at 8:00 on Friday morning and ending at 10:00 the next day, and the weight of the rifle was the least of my worries.



We used to use our M14s for hunting when we were young (and silly?) - with full 20round mags, scopes, bipods and compensator (labelled as "stabiliser" in GI terms). Walking up some decent hills too, and we used to smoke. Youth vs wisdom - these days, no smoking and a 4 shot 7lb Remington 0.308, does the trick.



Off topic, but here's a photo from the same era - the camera caught the ejecting case:

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #253123 - 04/09/14 12:14 AM

Here's Big Dog shooting his 2 bore rifle:
I've a feeling an under 6 pound .458 is no big deal.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/th_0404091257.mp4[/IMG]

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: gwh]
      #256890 - 17/11/14 10:57 AM

CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery (24" barrel, 11.25 lbs) shooting 570g Barnes TSX or 570g A-Frames, Jamison brass, Federal 215 primers

103g H4895 2300 fps recoil 83.62 ft/lbs recoil velocity 21.88 fps

Recoil of a 500 Jeffery with a reasonable wussy weight for me.


--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: chuck375]
      #262134 - 12/03/15 01:35 PM

Upped my charges to 105g H4895 in my 11.25 lb 500 Jeffery I reached 2510 fps with a 570g Tsx


Recoil was: 96.48 ft/lbs


Recoil velocity was: 23.50

Fired 30 full power loads from a bench wearing a T-Shirt after about 10 they started to hurt. At 20 the pain was excruciating, being stubborn and insistent on completing my load development I finished firing all 30 rounds for the bench. My groups were tight , but shoulder was a little loose at the end of of the ordeal.




I've learned and have used a lead sled for load development from then on.

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

Edited by chuck375 (12/03/15 01:36 PM)

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CHIP
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Reged: 19/11/07
Posts: 22
Loc: TUCSON, AZ
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: chuck375]
      #262140 - 12/03/15 03:44 PM

Chuck: by the looks of your bicep, it appears the rifle must have slipped out of your shoulder pocket a few times. This same thing happened to me shooting my 13.5 pound .600 OK. I found it most uncomfortable. Since then, I aways wear my Past Pad at the range when shooting the big ones. For me, it was not so much the extra padding that helped, but the texture of the pad covering, (which is something like a pigskin suede), that prevented that sort of slippage. Hats off to you for enduring 30 rounds. I never could have done that. 15 rounds is about my limit. The following is a picture of me shooting the.600 OK. Note the gases being expelled by the muzzle break, as well as the front sight hood flying off the rifle. Cheers. Chip.


[/URL]

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mckinney
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Reged: 29/01/09
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Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: CHIP]
      #262161 - 13/03/15 03:02 AM

One hears a lot of talk about the 'sharp jab' of cartridges like the 7mm Rem Mag versus the 'firm push' of the .375 H&H and larger Nitro express cartridges. I subscribe to this view myself, but I don't recall ever seeing any serious analysis of it - just the occasional comment by writers like Taylor and Keith.

I had an older friend years ago who had experimented with the Weatherby cartridges before I met him. He finally pinched a nerve in his shoulder (his diagnosis) shooting the .378 Weatherby. By the time I had met him, he had ditched the Weatherbys and settled on a pair of Browning safaris in .375 H&H and .458 Win. He was in the 'firm push' camp. We would spend hours poring over Hornady and Lyman reloading manuals and discussing ballistics and recoil from every imaginable angle. Then we'd drive out to his farm and shoot the rifles in the wee hours of the night. He was about 60. I was in my early twenties. Good times! ...and we never found a tree the .458 wouldn't shoot through with the 500 gr Hornady FMJ.

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: Some recoil stats for discussion [Re: mckinney]
      #262176 - 13/03/15 12:26 PM

Cheers to you too! Actually my rifle never slipped off of my shoulder, the blood from the bruise just keep going down until went past my elbow. This picture was the day after, the second day after the bruise was larger and much more colorful lol. I've gotten past this and now the 500 Jeffery is my favorite rifle.



--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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