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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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sbs470
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Reged: 15/04/04
Posts: 378
Loc: Sheffield Tasmania
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: kamilaroi]
      #201351 - 01/02/12 10:24 PM

I handled one and shot it at the BGR match at Lodi WI in 2007. big gun!
The muzzel brake under a wet tree is a pain.everyone got wet.
The guy who owns it has shot 7 or 8 elephant with it at that time may be more by now.
He likes big guns

good shooting

sbs470

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: sbs470]
      #221666 - 15/12/12 11:18 AM

I have 3 600 overkill rifles. in 26 1/2" barrel, 20" barrel and one with a 16 1/4" barrel. If you don't like a fin tube muzzle brake, you can have a screw in one made and leave it off most of the time. They do reduce recoil a lot on the heavy loads.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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FrankMartinez
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Reged: 20/08/04
Posts: 111
Loc: The real Northern CA, USA
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: bigdog]
      #222575 - 30/12/12 05:26 PM

Although it is fun shooting and practicing with my 600, having the biggest stick at the range was not ever my thought.
I enjoy the endorfine rush of jarring my brains silly and watching the world around me go spinning round and round for the first 8 or 20 rounds of my typical shooting day.
There are a few inconsistent statements made above that should be cleared up.
First though, it is great to see that the cartridge is coming forth to your shores. Once it becomes available and more people start shooting it and discovering the love of shooting the big bores for fun I am sure there will also be individuals there touting the pure fun of shooting 900 grain bullets in front of 140 grains of powder at a time.
The round was indeed built to emulate the great 600ne but was not based upon the round. The case was an original with the same bolt head as the 505 Gibbs with a belt. 2400 fps is not the top end. Although I added another 20 percent to that, I could not find the top end fearing permanent mental and skeletal infirmity. There are those who might say I managed that long ago with lesser cartridges they also do not shoot. My rifle weighs around 12.5 pounds proving there is no need for the the 25 lb bench gun or larger rail gun when shooting the 600.
As for hunting, although many or the dangerous game have indeed been hunted and killed with smaller calibers of adequate Kill value there also have been dangerous game killed with dangerously inadequate kill value. If someone can handle carrying a 12 or 14 lb rifle around to kill a dangerous or non-dangerous game with a new caliber then onward with the pursuit of new adventures.
I too dislike the Muzzle brake and do not use it however there are many individuals who really appreciated the fact that I have one the second time they shot the rifle which I load at 2100 fps for such occasions.
Frank

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Dresden
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Reged: 19/06/12
Posts: 20
Loc: Minnesota, USA
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #225523 - 19/02/13 01:23 AM

I have only one thought on this, I wonder what Randy Garrett would say about this, his tests with a 45-70 seem to show that penetration slows down at higher velocities, 1400fps as opposed to 2000fps.

His comment was "The faster the velocity the faster they slow down." when penetrating media. I am only commenting out of interest in this, not to create acrimony among shooters.

I do not own a 45-70 or 600 Overkill.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Dresden]
      #225526 - 19/02/13 03:09 AM

BigDog also owns and shoots a couple 2 bores - so - owning 3 .600 Overbores, is pretty much SOP - standard operating procedure. Not for me.

As to velocity reducing penetration - with softs or solids that deform at higher speeds, this MUST happen. With a real solid that remains in one piece and original shape as well as staying stable - I'd think the higher the speed, the greater the penetration? Isn't 3,000fps or more used to penetrate tanks in rifle ammo (if you call a 30mm cannon a rifle, that is - with depleted uranium bullets, of course)

We also know that the buffalo hunters oft-times, even with the .40/70/340's and the larger case and calibre rounds which shot even heavier for calibre bullets, up to 540's in the .45 calibres, killed 2 buffalo with one shot. Lead bullets, case as well as factory swaged. The swaged bullets were fairly soft, as needed for that process. The initial velocities barely or never exceeded 1,450fps at the muzzle which limits expansion and the buffalo were killed at hundreds of yards distance in many instances. The written records of these 'events' are re-printed in Seller's Book on the Sharps rifles.

The only reason I added this rather anecdotal post as I find all of this 'stuff' rather interesting and food for thought and discussion.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: DarylS]
      #225548 - 19/02/13 09:44 AM

Just because a faster bullet slows down faster than a slow one doesn't necessarily mean that the faster bullet penetrates less.

As Daryl notes, bullet construction and shape make a great deal of difference in terminal performance. This is why we often have many choices of bullets and cartridges based on the same bullet diameter.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: 458Win]
      #225878 - 24/02/13 09:57 AM

"My thoughts on the old theory that lighter people absorb recoil better than heavier people is that if it were true, lightweight boxers would do well against heavy weights."

Phil, I've always thought the same thing. This 'wisdom' is usually mentioned by big guys who don't handle recoil well and who need a way to explain why someone like your daughter can do it better than them!

Cheers,
Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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bobrhess
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Reged: 20/03/13
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Loc: Glendale,CA USA
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: bigdog]
      #229895 - 10/05/13 06:16 AM

What are the make of your .600 NE and do want to sell any of them?

Bob

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: bobrhess]
      #229897 - 10/05/13 06:40 AM

I'd love to try one!

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ben]
      #229931 - 11/05/13 08:51 AM

What bullet weight(a 900gr ?) and powder weight gets
a speed 20% faster than 2400 in a 600OK.
The biggest powder load I heard of on AccArms
was 168gr of 7828. And chroned about 22-2300.
The most of a heavy ball powder I get it one
here is 170gr under a seated bullet..

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bigdog
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Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: hubel458]
      #247567 - 20/05/14 09:41 AM

Wher did you get 20% faster from??? Just asking. Barrel length will help speed somewhat. I cant get 2400 ft/sec with 900 grain bullets without using a drop tube for the powder.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: gryphon]
      #247570 - 20/05/14 01:36 PM

Quote:

My reaction is composed of 'scary and why bother'.
Just what is it with the people that own these sort of calibres? Is it a power thing?
Especially when all the big game animals in the world have been taken with far lesser calibres and by many members on this forum.
I will sit and listen all day to a bloke that has hunted extensively on wild animals and has taken them with such as the 600 OK but there's no tinkers cuss for a bloke that 'owns one back home,its in the safe' as where one would imagine most of them dwell.




Based on that theory and Karamojos success then we should all need nothing more than a 7x57!!

Calibres, big and small, its what makes life interesting, sometimes its nice to do because we can, I know of a lot of guns better than any 600OK spend more time in the safe than anywhere else........for heavens sake its just a bit of fun...,get over it!!

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #247603 - 21/05/14 06:35 AM

Quote:

"My thoughts on the old theory that lighter people absorb recoil better than heavier people is that if it were true, lightweight boxers would do well against heavy weights."

Phil, I've always thought the same thing. This 'wisdom' is usually mentioned by big guys who don't handle recoil well and who need a way to explain why someone like your daughter can do it better than them!

Cheers,
Bob



Agree with this..anyone ever been in the ring with someone 20-25% heavier knows those hits start taking their toll quickly...

The book of 1000 excuses comes to mind in regards to the recoil issue ..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ripp]
      #247608 - 21/05/14 09:13 AM

Ripp, you are correct, any animal with proper shot placement can be taken with a smaller caliber rifle. To each their own. I enjoy shooting and collecting the bigger calibers. Its not for everyone. I do most of my shooting on private property. So it is not a showing off thing at the gun range to impress others.That part does not interest me in the least. Now< have on occasion taken some of the big boomers to a shoot because some members dont get a chance to see these monster calibers very often. I think alot of us just like the larger calibers.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: bigdog]
      #247609 - 21/05/14 09:23 AM

I could never understand the objection to these big bore rifles and handguns.
Perhaps the folks who cry about the 600 OK and similar cartridges are also the gun owners who are voting for more gun control lesiglation too.

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mauserand9mm
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1001
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: tinker]
      #247611 - 21/05/14 10:07 AM

Quote:

I could never understand the objection to these big bore rifles and handguns.
Perhaps the folks who cry about the 600 OK and similar cartridges are also the gun owners who are voting for more gun control lesiglation too.



Getting off topic a bit, but we are experiencing the same thing with noise at our range. Housing development has been creeping into the areas surrounding the range, and the home owners are complaining about the noise - the range has been here for 80-90 years I believe. Barriers have been put in, by the range, to minimise the noise leaving the site.

What gets me is that there are fellow shooters at the range who complain about the noise of the bigger rifles and wish that they weren't allowed - what the....? It's a rifle range for crying out loud - it's gonna be noisy! They don't seem to understand the idea of "united we stand, divided we fall" - who's side are they on? Where will it lead to - first they ban the big bores, then all centrefires, then 22s?

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #247613 - 21/05/14 10:59 AM

Quote:


What gets me is that there are fellow shooters at the range who complain about the noise of the bigger rifles and wish that they weren't allowed - what the....? It's a rifle range for crying out loud - it's gonna be noisy! They don't seem to understand the idea of "united we stand, divided we fall" - who's side are they on? Where will it lead to - first they ban the big bores, then all centrefires, then 22s?




No kidding.
Grow one.

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: bigdog]
      #247628 - 21/05/14 10:52 PM

Quote:

Ripp, you are correct, any animal with proper shot placement can be taken with a smaller caliber rifle. To each their own. I enjoy shooting and collecting the bigger calibers. Its not for everyone. I do most of my shooting on private property. So it is not a showing off thing at the gun range to impress others.That part does not interest me in the least. Now< have on occasion taken some of the big boomers to a shoot because some members dont get a chance to see these monster calibers very often. I think alot of us just like the larger calibers.



I have NO problem with bigger calibers,,have several myself and enjoy them a ton..I was merely agreeing with the statement that some that can't shoot them always have an excuse..which makes me chuckle a bit...

As to the other post of too much noise at a gun range...had not experienced that much until I broke out the .338 Lapua on my Sako TRG..has a muzzle break on it (which I normally do NOT use ever)..but man, it sure seemed to scatter those shooting next to me..BUT, not one complained or seemed to have much of an issue with it..as stated, really, ITS A GUN RANGE...

Have a good one..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Dresden]
      #247984 - 28/05/14 12:07 AM

Quote:

I have only one thought on this, I wonder what Randy Garrett would say about this, his tests with a 45-70 seem to show that penetration slows down at higher velocities, 1400fps as opposed to 2000fps.

His comment was "The faster the velocity the faster they slow down." when penetrating media. I am only commenting out of interest in this, not to create acrimony among shooters.

I do not own a 45-70 or 600 Overkill.



Oh no, not that one again, here on this forum. Years ago did the round on other forums, the old "slower is better for penetration" .....

Perhaps the statement was said by a bullet maker touting his own bullets for sale. Perhaps these flat topped lead bullets would shatter at higher velocities ...

Also the man who released videos proving his .45/70 bullets by if I remember shooting through a rhino (or buffalo?) and hitting another behind it .... thought it was a great video to release to promote his bullets ... enough said on that ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: kamilaroi]
      #247985 - 28/05/14 12:14 AM

Quote:

OK Mike,

Big shame job on my behalf! FWIW I believe that RockDoc (Chris) has a 600NE Farkie replica underway and perhaps completed by Damien Connolly by now. Its on a set of forgings(?) from John Saunders and Wal Winfer back in the day.

I'd love to see it.

As Taylor posited anything sbove 500Nitro is inefficient.

Yiyaalu

K.



It should be a finished product by now??? It would be great to see it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: 458Win]
      #247986 - 28/05/14 12:16 AM

Quote:

Here is a movie of my 110 # daughter firing one with a muzzle brake




...

The 600 is impressive but impractical for most hunting.



Don't shoot one on a cliff face!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: NitroX]
      #247990 - 28/05/14 01:41 AM

About recoil!

I used to like shooing big bores. Note the phrase "USED TO LIKE SHOOTING" = past tense!

Now that I have torn cartilage both front and back in my right shoulder, I don't shoot anything 'heavier' than my .375 and 9,3x62 - they're fine, even at the range, as long as I wear a standard PAST shoulder protector. For less than 5 rounds, I don't need the protector, but will be sore for a few days.

As to an .600 OK - no thanks - I'd like to keep my retina's where they are and do no more damage to the shoulder - it's had enough fun, and it only took 15,000 rounds of 458 to do it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ahmed577
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: DarylS]
      #247995 - 28/05/14 02:19 AM

Each to his own. I have a 600 h&h & 577 h&h doubles both modern guns (1948 & 1988 factory completions ). I find the 600 less stressful to use & noticeably more impacting on australian water buffaloe. Will soon have a 500 to use & form my own opinion on which is best for me. If I have a serious cull to complete out comes the sako 338 plastic stainless steel using 300 grain projectiles. My greatest satisfaction is derived from a good kill with the double. It's like a greatl wine as opposed to a ordinary wine. It's all in the head.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ahmed577]
      #248017 - 28/05/14 05:14 AM

Quote:

Each to his own. I have a 600 h&h & 577 h&h doubles both modern guns (1948 & 1988 factory completions ). I find the 600 less stressful to use & noticeably more impacting on australian water buffaloe. Will soon have a 500 to use & form my own opinion on which is best for me. If I have a serious cull to complete out comes the sako 338 plastic stainless steel using 300 grain projectiles. My greatest satisfaction is derived from a good kill with the double. It's like a greatl wine as opposed to a ordinary wine. It's all in the head.



Wonder if the buffalo feel the same way???

Agree, when I bought my first magnum I heard all kinds of horror stories..turned out to be just that, stories...mostly by those who had not actually fired one..but as Daryl stated, there is only so much "fun" I care to deal with . The fit plays a HUGE part on how the recoil is felt..poor stock design, low weight, etc makes a big difference on what I will and will not shoot..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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500Boswell
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: kamilaroi]
      #248030 - 28/05/14 03:18 PM

The usual moans from the 375 H and H ers ,who cant or wont shoot anything bigger because it hurts their shoulder, i.e so they dont want anyone else to own anything bigger than they do because it makes them feel inadequate ,sour grapes !John Taylor wasnt God, and some things have changed since he passed on ,
at the moment the thought in Government is that if the culls of feral animals ,camels ,buffalo etc can be carried out with 308 win from a helicopter why does anyone need anything bigger ? A Gunsmith told me that a woman at Weapons Licenceing said ,''they should have a buy back for all guns over 308 as no one needed to own anything bigger '',he replied that there were double rifles out there that cost a fortune, over a $100,000.00 for some of them and it would cost the Government millions ,'' she said ''oh it will cost too much then ?''

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