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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
The .505 Gibbs...per NRA article
      #215678 - 27/08/12 10:19 PM

At first glance, a brawny, classic African express rifleemanates an aura of power and old-time African adventure. Grasping its bolt and shoving a cigar-sized cartridge up the spout only reinforces the magic. As you lift the rifle, it nestles—balanced perfectly—between your hands, ready to stop the charge of a huge, angry beast.

One of the biggest cartridges chambered in African express rifles is the .505 Gibbs, which was developed in 1911 by riflemaker George Gibbs of Bristol, England. Originally, the .505 Gibbs was designed as a rimmed cartridge for use in a double rifle. Changing direction, Gibbs redesigned it as a rimless round to be used in more affordable and increasingly popular bolt-action express rifles. The cartridge soon earned a reputation as being unsurpassed in bringing down unsociable heavyweights, such as wounded Cape buffalo and enraged elephant. In addition, many of the old-time ivory hunters preferred the four-shot firepower of a drop-magazine, bolt-action rifle chambered for .505 Gibbs to the somewhat quicker second shot of a double rifle chambered for anything else.

Speed or TacticalWhen to ReloadSpare AmmoHandloadingLoading the 19111
ARTV 2010 Ep. 10: Ruger SR-556Dakota Arms Safari RiflesRCBS AmmoMaster Chronograph Pre..Moroccan Miquelet Rifle1 Published ballistics datashows the .505 Gibbs delivers significantly more muzzle energy than the .416 Rigby, .458 Win. Mag. or .470 Nitro Express. Only when you move up to the .460 Wby. Mag. do you find a cartridge with as much devastating power as the .505 Gibbs.

The test gun was a CZ 550 American Safari Magnum express rifle, a variant of the classic magnum Mauser action with a 22-inch hammer-forged barrel. A Leupold 1.5-5X riflescope was mounted on quick-detachable rings designed for the double-square-bridge’s dovetail bases. That lasted for 11 shots, which included a 2-inch, five-shot group fired at 100 yards with Superior Ammo factory loads. On the 11th shot, the scope flew off and hit me on the forehead before clattering to the ground. Did I mention that the .505 Gibbs has substantial recoil?

Ruined scope rings underscored the evident folly of mounting a scope on a rifle chambered for the .505. Besides, the .505 Gibbs is designed to disrupt the plans of an angry behemoth approaching at close range—not to snipe him from long distance. So, subsequent groups were fired using only the express iron sights at 50 yards instead of 100 yards. The results were gratifying.

Recoil of a .505 Gibbs or any of its peers is something a normal adult human can handle if one uses correct technique. I was, however, not nutty enough to shoot 100 rounds from the bench without some means of mitigating the recoil. The answer was a Caldwell Lead Sled, loaded with four 25-pound bags of shot, which tamed the recoil to an easily managed level. Even then, the .505 Gibbs leaped and bucked as it moved the Lead Sled backward nearly 2 inches on every shot.

To record range data, the test rifle was wired with a strain gauge connected to an Oehler Model 43 Personal Ballistics Lab, which gives peak chamber pressure and related pressure data as well as muzzle velocity via Skyscreens. Initial test groups were fired with factory ammunition from Superior and Norma to reinforce handload pressure limits and factory load accuracy. Moving to handloads, I tested three powders—Accurate Arms MagPro, Hodgdon H1000 and IMR 7828SC—with Barnes and Wood-leigh .505-inch-diameter bullets weighing either 525 grains or 600 grains.

The .505 Gibbs requires a lot of propellant to nudge such heavy bullets to working velocities. Powder charges ranged from 134 grains to about 144 grains, which equates to 50 loads or fewer per pound of propellant. It is not unusual for a big-bore chambering to exhibit gilt-edged accuracy, and the .505 Gibbs is no different. Several loads grouped under 2 inches at 50 yards, despite iron sights and my aging, presbyopic eyesight.

When you uncase a .505 at your local gun club and unleash its thunder downrange, you’ll quickly draw the attention of other shooters who are eager to see and fondle the huge, blunt-nosed cartridges. And, if offered, they will doubtless take the opportunity to touch off a round and feel the pulse-quickening power of one of the most serious sporting cartridges the world has even seen.

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rolf
.333 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 396
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: The .505 Gibbs...per NRA article [Re: Ripp]
      #215764 - 29/08/12 09:08 PM

Hello Ripp,

thank you for this interesting report!

But I have a question here:
Author says the barrel was 21" and he used healthy amounts of slow burnng powders.
Is this not a contradiction: very short barrel and slow burning powder?

I would expect a big muzzle flash and a relatively "low" output in velocity/energy as slow burning powders normally need a long barrel in conventional cartridge designs.
(Of course I understand that it is necessary to fill the .505 case for about 90% or even more.)

Can you or someone of the NE experts enlighten me here?

Thank you!

best regards
Rolf


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: The .505 Gibbs...per NRA article [Re: Rolf]
      #215775 - 30/08/12 12:44 AM

Quote:


Author says the barrel was 21" and he used healthy amounts of slow burnng powders.
Is this not a contradiction: very short barrel and slow burning powder?





Think in terms of barrel volume (pi x radius-squared x length of barrel). A .50 cal barrel has a lot of volume in only 21 inches. You do not need a 26 in barrel in a .505 Gibbs.

But the Gibbs case is huge and either you need to use a slow burning powder to fill that case up, or you have to use a filler to take up unused case volume if using a medium burning rate powder.

I said my peace about the .505 here:

http://africanhuntermag.com/HUNTING%20ELEPHANT%20WITH%20.505%20GIBBS.pdf


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The .505 Gibbs...per NRA article [Re: 500grains]
      #215777 - 30/08/12 01:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Author says the barrel was 21" and he used healthy amounts of slow burnng powders.
Is this not a contradiction: very short barrel and slow burning powder?





Think in terms of barrel volume (pi x radius-squared x length of barrel). A .50 cal barrel has a lot of volume in only 21 inches. You do not need a 26 in barrel in a .505 Gibbs.

But the Gibbs case is huge and either you need to use a slow burning powder to fill that case up, or you have to use a filler to take up unused case volume if using a medium burning rate powder.




Thanks for that info...that makes perfect sense...

Personally find these big bores really interesting...kind of a reflection of days gone by..

Have you had any experience with this caliber? I chuckled when the author described the scope flying off on the 11th shot..

Take care

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: The .505 Gibbs...per NRA article [Re: Ripp]
      #215779 - 30/08/12 01:21 AM

I only used the .505 on one hunt, described in the link above. I am not man enough to hunt well with it. A 12 pound rifle is too much for my wimpy body to carry 20 miles per day in the heat. The recoil was not so bad because the rifle I used was so well built. The stock design seemed to minimize recoil.

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458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: The .505 Gibbs...per NRA article [Re: 500grains]
      #216193 - 06/09/12 02:06 AM

Despite the factory claims, most all of the old English stoppers gave velocities between 1900 and 2100 fps in real life. the factory ballistics came from 28 to 30" bbls.
Original Kynoch loads ran around 2130 fps with 525 gr bullets. That was enough then and I don't see any reason it shouldn't be now and recoil is more pleasant than a 458 Lott. At that velocity I can attest that it puts down big game, like our biggest bears, like you dropped a crane on them.

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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: The .505 Gibbs...per NRA article [Re: 458Win]
      #216194 - 06/09/12 02:39 AM

Why are the .500 Jeffery and the .505 Gibbs often loaded with 525 and 535 gr bullets? I would have thought the .500's advantages would be a wider calibre with a much heavier bullet than the .450's 480/500 gr bullets, such as the .500's - 570 gr projectiles?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: The .505 Gibbs...per NRA article [Re: NitroX]
      #216242 - 06/09/12 07:32 PM

Maybe less recoil ,you know it when you use 600 gr projs !

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