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Exactly - what about lung shots above the heart? - inflated full of air vs empty - or stomach full of food vs empty - all having a direct reault on penetration as well - how much liquid, how much food to wade through. Big difference in internal damage due to this phenominum some called hydrostatic shock, vs the speed required 'apparently' to activate it in tissue alone.

I think speed is a relative deal here, depending on the condition of the organs - as noted above - full or empty. A lower speed works on full organs, a much higher speed is required to activate the mere tissues themselves. Much comes down to secondary missiles & the damage they create.

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4seventy

My bad. You're from the land of Holdens and Ford Falcons and Chrysler hemi sixes.

All good stuff.

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Freeloader, quite a few SBC's in OZ. Late 60's early 70's Holden Monaro's could be had new with SB Chevy power.
Hotrodders here use SB Chevy's a lot also.
I once had a 350 small block with a turbo-400 trans in a Landcruiser trayback.
It was awesome in soft sand beach driving!

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I'm a fan of useing the right bullets and breaking bone on any animal but have not hunted Ele.

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Speaking of hotrods, what do you euro types hot rod?

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anything German or Japanese
Oh wait, that's all we have

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4seventy
Freeloader, quite a few SBC's in OZ. Late 60's early 70's Holden Monaro's could be had new with SB Chevy power.
Hotrodders here use SB Chevy's a lot also.
I once had a 350 small block with a turbo-400 trans in a Landcruiser trayback.
It was awesome in soft sand beach driving!

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A little off the topic, but in the Feb edition of African Outfitter mag, there is an article regarding big bore wildcats, with the author very firmly saying that he (and apparently most African PH's??) are now saying that anything big driven at 2400 fps or over is now bad news,

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A little off the topic, but in the Feb edition of African Outfitter mag, there is an article regarding big bore wildcats, with the author very firmly saying that he (and apparently most African PH's??) are now saying that anything big driven at 2400 fps or over is now bad news,

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I'm curious; that is the "old" speed for my .416. 2400 fps is about what Rigby & co. got out of her. Now it's "bad news.?"

Here I was thinking I was on the safe side for sticking with the starter loads. Now all of a sudden I find out I should have downlaoded her and turned her into a .404.

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Ah the penny has dropped. That is why all us 404 owners just start with this cartridge and load it normally to give the tried and true DG performance.

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I am NOT a speed freak,

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We are all asute enough to know the bullet must be up to the job of doing the job we want it to, in anything we poke it, no matter what we launch it from.

High velocity seems to work on some game - mentioned that above, but the heavier and/or more dangerous the animal, the less susceptable to this high speed 'shock' they seem.

Don't overlook the tissue and blood vessel "cauterizing" phenominum that seems attached to nerve and tissue shock produced by high speed bullets.

We, human beings, are suseceptable to this so-called nerve shock - it's part and parcel to being human. You can slice your hand, leg or arm open and feel no pain - no bleeding, either, right away that is - nerve shock blocks the pain and has a cauterizing effect on the tissues. It takes some time before the blood flows, doesn't it - and then gushhhhhh.

Much the same thing happens (I surmise - yeah - my opinion) to an aminal that is hit by a high speed, rapidly expanding bullet that creates 'shock' to the system.

If you've ever watched a slower moving bullet (or arrow) go into and out of an animal and virtually immediately see the blood pour & continue to pour out the entrance and exit holes, you know what I mean. With the high speed rapidly expanding bullet, the blood inside doesn't pour out - there is a spray if the bullet exits or sometimes out the entrance, but then nothing - cut the deer, moose or elk, antelope open and the blood is like a chunk of jello, like an organ itself - congealed - by the shock? I think so. Makes sense.

That is why the PH's say 2,150fps is the goods - on all game. When hit, they bleed, no matter what they are.

On some game, the higher speed bullets work wonders, even the 270gr.(2,600fps MV) .375's shock 'effect' was noticable on plains game immediately after it's inception in 1912. Hunters were amazed at it seemed to kill like a lightening strike, on some animals some didn't die quickly - Hmm.

That 'shock' effect didn't always happen and it didn't happen much if at all on the really dangerous game - except maybe the lighter cats - maybe - sometimes did, not always.

I suspect you want a dangerous animal to bleed NOW and copiously, not to hold congealed blood in it's cavity and continue to bite, claw or trample - bleed out and die - shutdown - quickly.

Something to think about - maybe. Disregard if you wish.

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...I prefer a heavy, larger bullet.

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...I prefer a heavy, larger bullet.

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I suppose I'll have to be the outlier here, but the fact is that for smaller animals I don't prefer the bigger bullet.

For deer the 130 grain bullet works pretty well.

Maybe it's the case it's heavy enough, and you don't need more. I've never wanted more. Not out of a .270.

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We were - or I was - talking about Big Game - bigger than deer.

Re your 270, I always go the bigger bullet as I reckon it just gives you the edge on angling shots for penetration
as the weight carries it through well.

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